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Saab History discovered back in December that Saab may have to stop using the familiar griffin logo due to a contractual arrangement with Scania that dates back to when GM bought into the company. Under that arrangement, Saab Automobile could have use of the griffin emblem for 20 years, a period that will cease at the end of 2009.
So the question is whether or not Saab need a new emblem.
There’s a certain instant familiarity with logos. You can see some of them and know straight away what they are and what they represent. That’s why companies have them; to provide instant recognition and to reinforce brand identity.
It works for many, and not so well for some. Take Mazda, for instance:
My personal favourite is the 1962 logo, but that aside, you can see they’ve used a number of the years with the changes being more frequent in recent times. That image, by the way, was taken from the best page on car logo evolution, ever, on Neatorama. Check it out.
A strong brand logo’s a key benefit, but a weak one can see you lost in the wilderness and it may take years to get it back.
So what would be better?
1) Saab starting a new, semi-autonomous period with an all new graphical logo?
2) Saab dealing with Scania to continue using the griffin?
3) Saab using the SAAB name only, as they did with the 9-4x concept vehicle?
9-4x pictures are shown below.
Your views in comments, please.
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61 responses so far ↓
1 van god los
// Jan 19, 2009 at 8:51 pm
a new logo to show there is a new saab that respects the values of the original saab : hence the airplane logo
2 Ken H
// Jan 19, 2009 at 8:56 pm
Whatever they use it should be one that does not fade after a few years…
3 Jono
// Jan 19, 2009 at 8:59 pm
I agree with Ken H…. very annoying
it will be a shame to see the griffin go.
4 JB
// Jan 19, 2009 at 9:05 pm
Is not the SAAB logo as shown on the 9-4x a little bit too boring? If they can’t continue with Gripen they should make some kind of public competition of designing the new logo, this will give SAAB lots and lots of free and needed commercials.
5 Tompa
// Jan 19, 2009 at 9:13 pm
I´ve felt for years that, as Van god los says, the airplane logo should be what Saab aught to be using. It represents what Saab cars sprung from and the direction they have taken.
And the airplane logo is realy beautiful! It looks so proud. In some way like the Aston logo.
Could somebody please photoshop it onto the rear of the Aero X or why not the 9-3SC? Or why not the 9-X Air?
The Griffin logo is nice but says nothing of the brand and what it stands for.
I wonder how Saab AB (Saab Tech, Aircrafts, Missiles, Space etc) will solve their logo issue?
6 Robin M
// Jan 19, 2009 at 9:14 pm
Me, I love the logo wth the griffin, as it is at the moment. I would want it to stay.
But, if it does have to change, a modern version of the airplane would be great
7 Jono
// Jan 19, 2009 at 9:20 pm
I like the aeroplane idea, but only a modernised version.
the old one looks too retro.
and not the good kind of retro.
8 Jono
// Jan 19, 2009 at 9:46 pm
two very rough photoshops
http://pixpin.com/show.php?i=Untitled-2-QAwR.jpg&s=l
http://pixpin.com/show.php?i=Untitled-3-d89G.jpg&s=l
9 JohnnyBravo
// Jan 19, 2009 at 9:53 pm
I read somewhere that they will get a modified version of the “Vauxhall” logo – kind of a Griffin in there…
10 Markac
// Jan 19, 2009 at 10:21 pm
I don’t think the propeller plane logo really works on a modern car. Perhaps a jet plane logo? I must admit I’m kind of fond of the griffin even if 3 of my Saabs didn’t carry it.
I’d like to see a new version of the griifin that’s far enough removed fron the scania one, that it doesn’t need to be licensed, but I’m not sure about the Vauxhall one. Too GM? If a new logo can incorporate a griffin and a jet or perhaps even a sailplane, that would be great.
Mazda changed their early nineties logo because it looked too ‘Renault’.
11 ctm
// Jan 19, 2009 at 10:26 pm
Ah, the logo-history-site. Thanks for the link again!
So, the car manufacturer Saab has been around for 62 years. Of those 62 years, it has been using the griffin logo for 25 years (i.e. less than half the time). Of those 25 years, it has been tied to GM during 19 years. So in fact, the griffin logo is almost the same as Saabs time with GM. Another reason to change it to mark a new era.
Yes, I do think Saab and the griffin are tied together. But that big bold capital logo with the word SAAB also stands out as true Saab (I think of Saab Turbo every time I see it). It has stood the test of time regarding the font. But I would love to see a combination of SAAB with the old propeller airplane silhouette.
12 Turbotroll
// Jan 19, 2009 at 10:30 pm
I would vote for a completely new logo. SAAB should turn a new page in its history and choose new visual identity not related to airplanes or Scania.
The usage of airplanes in advertising is quite ridiculous given the fact that SAAB and SAAB are two completely separate companies nowadays. The “Born From Jets” slogan is ridiculous and should be dumped.
13 Tompa
// Jan 19, 2009 at 10:36 pm
Turbotroll… Saab cars are sprung FROM the aircraft manufacturer Saab. So in what way is that ridiculous? Should they deny their background?
14 Martin N
// Jan 19, 2009 at 11:01 pm
Saab. Need. Products.
No matter how the logotype looks.
Yes, the Saab brand it has some good values attached to it (for the few people on the planet who knows it exists), but in the world of cars you have to keep delivering products that maintain those values. The consistant values of those products is the brand. Car buyers aren’t as easily fooled as fashion buyers for whom the brand in itself is the product.
One new product every 10 years is not enough, especially if they are as bland as the 9-3. If you have no products, you have no brand, and you definitely can’t make any money out of the strengths in the brand.
(But if you ask me about the logo
, my answer as a man of the trade would be that the classic “SAAB” logotype stands for itself, without the quite modern addition of the Scania griffin. Less is more. And a minimalistic logo feels confident.)
15 Iain
// Jan 19, 2009 at 11:11 pm
I’ve already got a “name-only” Saab – an ‘84 99.
No logos anywhere, just the word “SAAB” on grille, tail and steering wheel.
It really would look better with a graphic. The 96s had some nice aircraft variations …
16 John
// Jan 19, 2009 at 11:30 pm
Don’t throw the baby out with the bath water. Let the Griffen live.
17 Rune (the other one)
// Jan 19, 2009 at 11:40 pm
The 9-4x SAAB emblem is surrounded by wings in all three pictures.
#1 is obvious…
#2 the red strip works as wings
#3 the steering wheel again works as wings (the drop down the middle is a bit unfortunate though, it should be moved a bit upwards…)
A coloured logo seems to be subject to wear and tear… But I do not think the old airplane works on the 9-4x.
18 JohnK
// Jan 19, 2009 at 11:56 pm
I think this is the reason why they left off the griffin logo on the new 9-4x because they know they won’t have the rights to it beyond 2009 which is when this vehicle is to be launched. They need a logo for sure but something modern with the times. I’m sure some marketing nut in Sweden will come up with something that works. No colors though..they fade too much…I have seen numerous griffin logos on Saabs faded and chipped away even on newer ones. Go chrome.
19 Turbotroll
// Jan 20, 2009 at 12:00 am
Tompa,
No, of course SAAB shouldn’t deny their roots. But I don’t believe stubborn insisting on historical details over and over fits a company which values innovation and future as much as SAAB does.
The “Born From Jets” slogan is often seen as a laughing matter, and no wonder, since it usually comes with a footnote stating that SAAB the car maker has nothing to do with SAAB the airplane maker anymore. Honestly, isn’t it pathetic? I therefore strongly believe it should be placed into the museum, along with other airplane-related motifs. “Move Your Mind” sounds much more reasonable and appropriate as the motto of SAAB in the 21 century.
SAAB was cool in 1950s and 60s because of its aerospace roots. Now it should find another source of coolness, and I’m very confident it will, too.
20 Adam
// Jan 20, 2009 at 12:33 am
I’m not a fan of that airplane logo. At first glance it looks like glasses.
I really like the griffin logo, but I don’t think it has so much recognition in the public that they can’t discontinue it.
I don’t think a modern jet interpretation would work either. It would get dated too quickly.
I’m thinking something with an S and a Scandanavian cross (the off-center cross on Scandanavian flags), or perhaps a variation on the Viggen chevrons. Either one could work in chrome or color. Any photoshop aces want to take a shot at those for me?
21 Arild
// Jan 20, 2009 at 12:57 am
If they can’t use the Griffin logo anymore, then I would like to see an evolution of that logo presented as the new Saab logo on the new 9-5. That would be a great new start.
22 Topher
// Jan 20, 2009 at 1:00 am
They should definitely try to keep the Griffin logo. It’s instantly recognizable, it’s very regal looking, and one of the best looking logos in the car industry. Plus, those of us that already have a ton of merchandise bearing the griffin logo don’t want it to look outdated and have to buy all new stuff with a new logo.
23 Rune (the other one)
// Jan 20, 2009 at 1:14 am
Adam wrote: “I’m thinking something with an S and a Scandanavian cross (the off-center cross on Scandanavian flags),”
I am pretty sure that the particular cross in question is the Christian cross (Lutheran style). Is there a reason you do not want SAAB to sell well in muslim countries?
(and so I hear you ask… “what about all those Norwegians soldiers stationed in Afghanistan driving around in vehicles brandishing the Christian cross?” Well, not exactly a smart thing to do, now is it?). At one point, the vikings started shaping the hammer of Thor to be more like a cross, and in some instances it was very hard to tell the difference… I guess my ancestors were able to cater to both sides of the fence that way. 
Let us try to keep our suggestions religion-neutral, please?
24 Henk-Jan
// Jan 20, 2009 at 1:20 am
@ Jono; I would like the new logo to be a retro-version of the old Prop-plane. I absolutely dislike retro-cars, nevertheless a retro-version or a complete copy of the old logo would be brilliant!
25 mr_ebbot
// Jan 20, 2009 at 1:50 am
A question, is Scania really the owner of the Griffin-logo? I thought it was owned by a charity (not sure of the word, stiftelse in swedish)
For example the City of Malmö has used a Griffin for a long time. Today it is modernaised, also Malmö Aviation uses the logo.
Maybe Scania has a deal were they are supposed to be alone with the logo in auto buisness?
26 2-Don
// Jan 20, 2009 at 1:56 am
Griffin please! I think it’s great. Very recognizable. Also people, BMW’s logo fades after a few years too! Just buy a new one.
27 Dan Palka
// Jan 20, 2009 at 1:58 am
It should (and probably will continue to) be the Girffin. Despite the aircraft logo heritage, only us Saab enthusiasts even know about it, and frankly, it would look akward and outdated on current Saab models.
The Griffin is an extremely strong, instantly recognizable by most normal people, and highly brandable logo.
28 Ronald
// Jan 20, 2009 at 2:04 am
Maybe this?
1. http://i18.ebayimg.com/02/i/07/3a/9d/f2_1.JPG
I have a good idea, maybe Saab is on to something with SAAB in capitals. We should use one of these two graphics (in chrome), and use the word ‘SAAB’ underneath it (also in chrome)
Photoshop anyone?
http://www.flightlinefabrications.com/images/EBAY/1945-Present/404×404%20J-37%20Viggen%20FINAL.jpg
or
http://www.flightlinefabrications.com/images/EBAY/1945-Present/404×404%20SAAB%20JAS-39%20Gripen%20FINAL.jpg
just an idea.
29 DMR
// Jan 20, 2009 at 2:28 am
Seeing the blue and red badge peeking out from under a foot of snow on a parked car is enough for an instant feeling of kinship with the owner!!! In the grand scheme of things, a logo does not a car make. But, losing the current one would definitely be sad.
30 Kroum
// Jan 20, 2009 at 3:00 am
Saab Aerospace also uses the griffin: http://www.saabgroup.com/.
I myself like the little bugger and would like for him to remain in Saab’s logo. It’s distinctive, very well branded and looks premium.
The old airplane logo is cheesy, the wordmark is kinda plain Jane and yet another new logo would be too Mazda-Toyota-Hyundai. Old established brands should have old established logos.
31 Kroum
// Jan 20, 2009 at 3:01 am
Saab Aerospace also uses the griffin.
I myself like the little bugger and would like for him to remain in Saab’s logo. It’s distinctive, very well branded and looks premium.
The old airplane logo is cheesy, the wordmark is kinda plain Jane and yet another new logo would be too Mazda-Toyota-Hyundai. Old established brands should have old established logos.
32 ctm
// Jan 20, 2009 at 3:37 am
mr_ebbot,
I’m not sure if the griffin as such can’t be trademarked as it is an old heraldic symbol adopted by many. In Sweden it is part of the coat of arms for Malmö kommun, Skåne (Scania) County, and maybe some other institutions. It is part some companies logotypes, such as most of the former members of Saab-Scania and Malmö Aviation (there are probably more). They are all not the same, but are just using some variant of the griffin. Since it is an old coat of arms, maybe its use in Sweden is regulated by The House of Nobility but I really don’t know anything about that. A picture of the creature as such is probably too general to be owned by someone.
I would guess that the exact Saab griffin logo (the red griffin turned left on a blue background) and/or the name “Saab” are controlled by a company (maybe just some sort a trust) and that Saab AB has the controlling vote. Thus, they decide who can use a logo that looks like the Saab one and/or the name Saab. If Saab Automobile were sold, it could be that the buyer only buys the assets and that the brand name stays with Saab AB if they do not want the new buyer to be able to use the name/logo. It can be a real mess as shown be the recent history of the Rover brand…
33 Andy Rupert
// Jan 20, 2009 at 4:02 am
Maybe we should stick with the Move Your Mind theme. How’s this?
http://www.andyrupert.com/saab/new_logo.GIF
34 Bornfromjets03
// Jan 20, 2009 at 4:29 am
The griffin should stay. Everybody likes the griffin, even if it does symbolize saabs time with GM.
. What I don’t like is the ‘move your mind’ thing. Sounds too much like nissan’s ‘SHIFT_’
Also, regarding born from jets, I like the slogan and think it describes SAAB’s history quite clearly, it also is an easy description for how good the turbo feels
Bornfromjets03
35 Karen
// Jan 20, 2009 at 4:39 am
THE Griffin is a monster with the body of a lion, the head and wings of an eagle, and back covered with feathers.
the Phoenix is a bird that rose from the ashes – face very similar to the Griffin.
Surely a new monochromatic embossed steel Griffin-Phoenix can merge with SAAB logo to maintain continuity with symbolism.
yeah, my Griffin film applique disappeared a long time ago, but my 1987 medallion was stolen three times, and it included the Griffen.
all four Saab logos are pictured here:
http://home.swipnet.se/danny/saablogos.htm
Maybe ditch the crown, but keep the Griffen head because he looks just like the Phoenix Saab that will rise from the ashes of GM.
‘Born from Jets’ does not connect unless the exterior and dash design go back to the aerodynamic styling that made Saab so unique.
36 Markac
// Jan 20, 2009 at 4:58 am
ctm: Tata owns the Rover name and badge. Ford bought the name to protect Land Rover, and it went to Tata when they bought Jaguar/Land Rover.
BTW Now that GM has some bailout funds, can’t they give Bob Lutz his ‘Golden handshake’ now and pension the old bugger off?
Saab might ask us to ‘move our minds’ but GM just manages to ‘move our bowels’!
37 Ying
// Jan 20, 2009 at 5:08 am
One one hand, the Griffin logo comes from a previous marriage, on the other hand it is one of the most unique and stylish logos on any cars today.
I’d hate to see it go.
(On my previous 9-5, I actually bought a Scania truck badge for the hood after the original faded)
http://b3signsandgraphics.co.uk/shop/images/scania%20badge.jpg
38 saabjohnny
// Jan 20, 2009 at 5:56 am
BMW, Mercedes, VW, Audi – all instantly recognisable by there logo’s, none of which have changed seriously since, apart from subtle changes in the type face over the years. If it ain’t broken don’t fix it.
The Griffin, the one piece of Saab that has remained constant through various owners. It should be enhanced not dropped!!!
39 ck1x
// Jan 20, 2009 at 6:26 am
I for one like the idea that “Karen” mentioned about the significant meanings between using the Griffin logo and perhaps going with something like the Phoenix instead which could stand for a whole new meaning for Saab trying to rise from the ashes. Here are some google images of the Phoenix which seem pretty cool! Yes I know that Pontiac once used this as the Trans Am’s emblem and am not sure what hold on product placement GM may have but seeing as they are in such bad shape and Pontiac is a dying brand itself there should be no conflicts…
http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=phoenix+bird&revid=902846912&resnum=1&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&resnum=1&ct=title
40 zippy
// Jan 20, 2009 at 6:38 am
Tell Scania to get stuffed and keep using the famous griffin logo. Well, its a try!
41 SaabBob
// Jan 20, 2009 at 6:42 am
If the griffin cannot be used, the SAAB name only would be my choice; it’s bold & distintive and will usher in a new era.
Adopting the old airplane logo or a new jet logo is as goofy as the Born From Jets slogan that most of us seem to dislike.
42 SAABoy
// Jan 20, 2009 at 6:50 am
I heart Griffin…
43 Dippen
// Jan 20, 2009 at 7:02 am
i would hate to see the Griffin go away.
i like the logo and specialy when it is painted on the cars:)
lite this one:
http://www.garaget.org/?car=32993&image=684403
May be it is possible to make a new deal that Saab automobile can continue to use the Griffin logo?
any ideas?
44 Sånätt
// Jan 20, 2009 at 7:11 am
My humble suggestion is that SAAB buys Scania. SAAB is supposed to be independant now (right?) and I’ve read that Porsche, which soon may take control of Volkswagen, has no interest in Scania. Griffin problem solved!:)
45 Tobias
// Jan 20, 2009 at 8:31 am
CTM
Spot on. I tried to google it but I did not have any good keywords. But what i can recall is that when Malmö muncipality wanted to change their Griffin logo they had to consult a trust or something like that. I might have it all backwards but who knows.
The specific logo here would all the fomer Saab-Scania companies hava a say in it?
Volvo has some kind of partnership regarding the name for the truck and car.
BTW – I think the shoul keep the logo, I dont like change…
46 PT
// Jan 20, 2009 at 8:46 am
I like the Griffin but if all we end up with is the SAAB wordtype then its not so bad. Very distintive and powerfully simple. Also reminds me of ABBA.
47 aeronaut
// Jan 20, 2009 at 10:42 am
hi dippin,
those are decals not paint. you can buy them here for $42 each
http://www.elkparts.com/gifts–accessories/stickers/xl-saab-griffin-stickers-yellow-pair.p2439.html
cheers
48 turbin
// Jan 20, 2009 at 11:10 am
Nice one Pete, maybe they should just put ABBA on instead, their are plenty of people who’ll buy anything with that name on it.
49 turbin
// Jan 20, 2009 at 11:15 am
Seriously though, I think it is extremely hard to tell what make of car you are following or have been passed by when it’s a current Saab. It’s about time it was spelled out again with modest but visible SAAB badges.
Many a cashed up and stylish non-car person has probably seen and liked a Saab recently but had no clue what it was they just fell in love with.
50 Arnold
// Jan 20, 2009 at 12:39 pm
Realize that BMW has an airplane propeller symbol so let’s not cut out the aviation link. I have never understood this need to “modernize” a logo when it’s purpose is to create an historical link. Should Ford get rid of their script? Coca Cola get more modern writing?
It’s company history that matters, and that history is beautifully shown in No8 by jono.
Saab took a long time to earn that airplane symbol, let’s show it some respect.
51 Bruce
// Jan 20, 2009 at 1:39 pm
I agree with Turbin. How about SAAB on the right rear for LHD vehicles, on the left rear for RHD cars? . . . So when you pass they know what went by.
The redhead is nice if we can keep it, especially as a dash of color, but it does not have strong recognition value “out there.” I rather like the wings on the front of the 9-5 but Chryslers have a similar emblem and indeed BMWs have a propeller.
There’s a very aerodynamic line in the little car-shaped blocks used in SAAB showrooms to display the paint colors. It does suggest AERO(dynamic) and that is a lasting SAAB virtue. Perhaps a single line based on the top of that classic SAAB shape would soften the angularity of the SAAB name and give it a visual anchor?
Bruce
52 turbin
// Jan 20, 2009 at 2:09 pm
The BMW logo origin as a propeller is debated across the interweb, though it was very soon promoted as such anyway.
I prefer to see it as a target for well aimed eggs / marker for crash-testing (esp on the side of Z3s).
53 Kroum
// Jan 20, 2009 at 2:20 pm
Turbin, does it matter? BMW’s is a great looking logo, instantly recognizable and very well marketed.
It’s much better than Saab’s old propeller logo, which is way too complex and descriptive. Just looks awkward on any modern car – plain awful on the Aero X photochop Jono posted.
54 turbin
// Jan 20, 2009 at 2:28 pm
It doesn’t matter Kroum, what matters is that the last thing Saab needs now is to try and get people to learn a new logo when they don’t even know Saab exists.
I look at my new Sportcombi and think ,” What a great looking machine! Does anybody else on the road actually know what it is???” Because you have to be about a metre away while the car is standing still to be able to read the company name. If you don’t know cars you won’t know what the hell a 08 9-3 is.
I say spell it out, I have always liked the name as a badge. I love it on my 9000, and that’s what I remember from the first time I saw a ‘93 9000 15 years ago.
55 Kroum
// Jan 20, 2009 at 3:23 pm
I could stand 20 meters away from a BMW and I’ll make no mistake what car it is. It doesn’t have a huge “BMW” banner on the boot, you know? You just know, because it’s been so well advertised. Or perhaps they’re just so common over here.
What Saab needs is new models and advertising. Even sporting a huge badge everyone could see nobody would care unless the car made an impression.
Btw. I completely agree with you that the least thing Saab needs now is to rebrand a logo.
I was also thinking on my 800-odd kilometer drive to Detroit and back what an amazing car the Turbo X is: so composed, stable and powerful, so comfortable and pleasurable on the road. An absolute joy to drive. Still, apart from a few die-hards, who knew? My dealer still had one of the four they ordered for sale just a month ago.
56 Karen
// Jan 20, 2009 at 4:00 pm
@aeronaut: $42 each for a new decal????????
I had a nice drive today to ge to the movies (Defiance). Parked next to another Saab 9-3 with a faded decal like mine. Realized this is a serious problem, but $24 for a new decal that will last for 1-2 years. No way. Was going to try to find a metal, enameled medallion like I had on my 900. Kept looking at the Saab Scania medallion on the steering wheel, with the Griffen (it’s a 40 minute drive to the movies).
Eons ago, I managed package design for Philip Morris. Heraldry is critical in cigarette packaging. The human eye will always see RED first – an evolutionary thing about fire.
So, I still think the Griffen with fire engine red should be kept. Carl Fredik Reuterswärd designed the last two logos – he would know how to modify the Griffen to get around copyright. Ditch the gold in the crown – ditch the crown. make the Griffen look like it’s FLYING. Make kids want to steal Saab medallions again.
so where can I get a Saab/Scania/Griffen medallion? My 9-3 is a 1999, so they still used the Scania.
Logo continuity is important, but it can evolve over time. Like BMW, noted here as the ” “roundel”, was created and registered in 1917. The logo is remarkably simple and projects an identity that is smart, clear, sporty and image-conscious. It is one of the most distinctive logo designs in the world, speaking highly of a brand-led company. ”
http://www.logoblog.org/bmw_logo
.php
Honda, Chevy, Mercedes, Rolls Royce, Ferrari, Toyota, and Peugeot are other automobile bands (sorry!) that have write-ups at this website. Nike and McDonalds are globally recognized logos without the name.
aargh!
anyway, what are the qualities of Saab that we want the logo to stimulate? Does the Griffen do that? maybe we need to modify the Griffen into an eagle? with wings – evoking the airplane and the Griffen. I have a photo of such a bald eagle on my other PC that I will email to Swade.
sorry – I used to do this early in my career.
57 Karen
// Jan 20, 2009 at 5:20 pm
It seems the Griffen was very popular in Sweden for heraldry, including the monarch’s royal standard. And, there is a tradition of using heraldry from the place of an automobile’s birth. An advantage for European cars. Even Cadillac uses heraldry because Detroit was founded in 1701 by a French noble named Antoine de la Mothe Cadillac.
Trust me, Saab does NOT want to start using Trollhattan’s crest, no insult intended. But Vastra Gotaland County crest also uses a Griffen. Hard to imagine a modified Griffen cannot be used, maybe the King can give permission…
58 Arild
// Jan 20, 2009 at 6:25 pm
I don’t like the idea of mixing up the Griffin with a Phoenix. The Griffin has a traditional and historical meaning in Sweden, but the Phoenix has not. Saab wants to be Swedish, hence they should stick to the Griffin.
59 Kroum
// Jan 21, 2009 at 2:23 am
Looking at the spyshots of the NG9-5, it looks like there is a griffin badge on the hood.
60 Jeff
// Jan 21, 2009 at 3:39 am
The 9-4X logo reminds me too much of an AUDI.
61 Aaron
// Jan 21, 2009 at 7:14 am
I also like the Phoenix idea. It would have to be a line drawing though, so perhaps something like one of these:
http://phoinix.co.uk/img/Phoenix_bird_trans.jpg
or a version of this:
http://dclips.fundraw.com/400dir/doctormo_Phoeonix.gif
Simplified though. It could be very classy, particularly the first one.