31 responses so far ↓

• 1 Kroum // Dec 20, 2008 at 1:48 am

  I hope not.

• 2 Trogg // Dec 20, 2008 at 1:50 am

  I guess thats good news for some of us (I work for a GM vendor, and they are our sole customer).

  Having driven SAABs for 30 years I’d be happy if GM sold SAAB to Subaru 10 years ago.

  if SAAB had two models, sedan and wagon, with three variants for each, standard, sport, and high ground clearance, with two or three engines, petrol, diesel, electric/electric hybrid that would be a full line up. Being part of GM they will always have to wait and see if they are allowed to develop a car for this or that platform of the moment and when they do there will be line item negotiations for every aspect of the car. Thats a brand killer no exception.

• 3 Tompa // Dec 20, 2008 at 1:50 am

  I hope not when it comes to Saab being owned by GM. GM had made it clear that they understand nothing of the world outside of the US or taking care of their investments.

• 4 Aeroman // Dec 20, 2008 at 2:12 am

  I think you are all being a bit short sighted!

  In the current market manafacturers have to produce up to the minute spec and new models to compete, that costs billions!. Saab has been well behind in this process but is on the verge of ‘being in the GM machine’ when products will be replaced in cycles. Saab will hold on to caddy’s tail which remember sell over 400k units in th US, 4 TIMES Saab’s world volume….. I think Saab is better placed there than dying on it’s own as a quircky small volume brand. GM just need to pull out the premium element of the Saab brand!

• 5 Tedjs // Dec 20, 2008 at 2:15 am

  What a nice Christmas gift, now we – the American people own General Motors. Rick Wagoner is now thanking us live on CNBC – and as usual tip-toeing around the issue of negations with the UAW. Gettlefinger has sounded like a big dope (pardon my French) through all of this, and it will be interesting to see what he will do – not so much in wages, but in the area of job sharing, and the jobs bank.

  In the end, this probably not a surprise to anybody – was there really a choice?

  I still have mixed feelings about bailing our Chrysler. Cerberus bought Chrysler in hopes to ‘flip a house’ and make some money – but they got stuck with what is the worst of the ‘Detroit 3’.

  And so it goes…

• 6 Jörgen Trued // Dec 20, 2008 at 3:19 am

  Now SAAB has a few months to get the tail in gear and push hard getting some new products out on the market.
  A laymans opinion is to scrap the 9-4 project for the time beeing put all resources into the products that has a future, smaller, cleaner, smarter, flexible, saabish-unique that sets SAAB´s apart from the grey crowd, political correct automobiles.

  I believe that GM finally understand the true value of SAAB. It is never a good thing to make decisions under stress and pressure. Uncle Rick, Bobby, and Percy take a common deep breath and see what SAAB has to offer GM in terms och smartness. Also they should make reservations for a flight to Trollhättan to truly get a hands-on sense of the SAAB spirit during the SAAB Festival. These gentlemen needs to be enlightend and meet their best customers!

• 7 Troll96 // Dec 20, 2008 at 3:34 am

  Tedjs: I agree that the UAW has shown the least willingness to take immediate meaningful action to avoid a debacle. Obviously, they hope to get a better deal when Obama takes office, and now Pres. Bush has made it possible for GM to stay afloat until then. This is more of a punt then a true solution.

  Other note: If, as Wagoner says, the economy is to blame for GM’s current predicament, then why isn’t Ford in trouble too?

  I’d rather that Saab be free to offer its best possible lineup rather than always taking half measures as dictated by GM. Better to bet the farm on its next round of cars than to limp along for a few years more as Detroit’s stepchild. GM’s side of the Saab bargain was to provide financial stability while Saab offered technology. Saab lived up to its end, but GM can no longer do its part.

• 8 zippy // Dec 20, 2008 at 5:25 am

  Id actually like to see Saab owned by someone who really knows what Saab is all about.

  Swade, can we start an online petition demanding Saab show the world the new 9-5?

• 9 Pekko // Dec 20, 2008 at 5:45 am

  GM Finland has sent letter to Finnish press to decrease speculation about future of Saab. Finnish press is already sold Saab to new owner or discontinued whole brand. There was also in letter from GM Finland schedule of new models public launch. Geneva -09 9-3x, Frankfurt -09 all new large Saab(we all know that it is 9-5) and during 2010 9-4x.

  http://www.tuulilasi.fi/valokeila/?subarea=uutiset&article=155855

• 10 Pekko // Dec 20, 2008 at 5:51 am

  Link to the article (in Finnish): http://www.tuulilasi.fi/valokeila/?subarea=uutiset&article=155855

• 11 Daniel // Dec 20, 2008 at 5:59 am

  Pekko. Do you have any links ?

• 12 ctm // Dec 20, 2008 at 6:31 am

  I think Saab should give Swade the honor to unveil the 9-5 pics on Christmas Eve here on TS.

• 13 zippy // Dec 20, 2008 at 7:26 am

  ctm, I concur!!!

  Pics of the 9-5 would be the best Christmas present I could get this year.

• 14 1985 Gripen // Dec 20, 2008 at 8:13 am

  I know a lot of you are dying of curiosity wanting to see the new 9-5, but I think that would be an awful idea.

  Remember when Saab showed pics of the Turbo-X and then didn’t start selling them until many, many months later? Or when they showed the ‘08 9-3 refresh far too early? It already felt kind of stale by the time we could buy it.

  I don’t want to see the 9-5 now only to not be able to purchase one until a year from now.

  @tedjs: I remember reading some expert analysis at the time of the Cerberus purchase of Chrysler that concluded that Daimler ended-up paying Cerberus to take Chrysler off their hands.

• 15 swade // Dec 20, 2008 at 8:20 am

  Troll96,

  Ford are doing better because they arranged extensive lines of credit back in 2006, hence they don’t have the cashflow problems that GM have. That’s why they’re lining up with the other two and trying to arrange a line of credit. If sales stay as far south as they’re looking to be in 2008/9, then they’re going to have to dip their nose in the trough, too, as their arranged finance will be exhausted.

• 16 zippy // Dec 20, 2008 at 8:45 am

  1985 Gripen, the 9-5 is the car Saab needed three years ago so if its ready and the quality is 100pc why not sell it in the spring?

• 17 Markac // Dec 20, 2008 at 10:44 am

  Zippy: Saab has always had very low priority with GM. Now it has about zero.

• 18 aeronaut // Dec 20, 2008 at 10:59 am

  pics of the new 9-5 need to be leaked to establish that it is real and to create a buzz about SAAB. it would be a great sales pitch for new investors to see public interest in the new car and to see positive reviews by the auto press. SAAB needs new investors, so if you’ve got it (new product) then flaunt it.

• 19 Karen // Dec 20, 2008 at 12:54 pm

  A Subaru Outback passed me today because I was driving so slow because this 9-3 CANNOT HANDLE BLACK ICE UNDER ONE INCH OF FRESH SNOW IN A WHITE-OUT ON A COMPLETELY FLAT STRETCH OF COUNTRY ROAD (112 IN MASSACHUSETTS).

  My 1987 900 beat the (expletive and shouting deleted) 1996 blizzard that had every Jeep and SUV stopped in it’s tracks.

  As if the insult by a Subaru wasn’t enough, I got stuck in my driveway (!) because there was already a 2″ frozen layer of snow from Tuesday night when I was in NYC.

  WHAT DID GM DO TO SAAB that makes me now drive like a chicken with this 1999 9-3?

  No wonder the 900 was a star.

  When I saw Wagoner on TV afterwards, my only thought was ‘off with his head’. Then a Subaru ad came on offering the Forester at $19,995 USD with zero percent financing.

  It is an illusion of marketing people that the body styling needs updating. Do you think a bar of Ivory Soap has changed since it launched what became Proctor & Gamble in the 1880’s? No, and it still floats.

  Saab needs to be Saab again. Put the R&D on the performance – it should not have to cost billions of dollars to re-tool.

• 20 aeronaut // Dec 20, 2008 at 1:38 pm

  hi karen – what kind of tires are on your car? driving on snow covered ice is all about the tires.

• 21 Markac // Dec 20, 2008 at 2:00 pm

  Aeronaut: Do you think GM wants a buzz at Saab? I think not. It doesn’t want to think about Saab. Now that it has some bailout funds, I think GM should slip into ‘orderly’ banruptcy and not try anything like “business as usual” because that will only prolong the inevitable. Unfortunately a head in the sand attitude is part of GM’s philosophy.
  The Whitehouse is stupid if it doesn’t try to strongly administer those funds. Ihope somebody has some brains there and uses them. Sadly the only people at GM who have any brains aren’t in a position to use them.

• 22 Tim in Denver // Dec 20, 2008 at 2:59 pm

  So, Aeronaut, I drive the same 99 9-3 Karen describes, and I am ready to buy tires. What do you recommend for snow on ice? I’d love some input here in Colorado.

• 23 aeronaut // Dec 20, 2008 at 5:33 pm

  hi tim, i would recommend getting the same tires that the subaru is using which is probably a good set of snow and ice winter tires such as michelin x-ice. here is an article – http://www.canadiandriver.com/winter/tires/michelin_x-ice.htm

• 24 aeronaut // Dec 20, 2008 at 5:38 pm

  hi markac, i was thinking that SAAB create its own buzz to help attract investors so it could survive on its own post GM. sometimes you just need to make things happen.

• 25 Markac // Dec 20, 2008 at 6:24 pm

  aeronaut: It would be nice if Saab could make some things happen. But will GM let them?
  With any luck GM may be so preoccupied with it’s problems at home, Saab might just be able to let a few things slip through the noose.
  Getting the 9-5 back to Troolhattan (as has been suggested) would be a good start, even if that causes a slight dealy in it’s release.

• 26 Karen // Dec 21, 2008 at 1:27 am

  Thanks Aeronaut (and Tim in Denver). I have Michelins, and NEVER had to have winter snow tires with my 900 (or the otherwise unreliable 1976 99GL). Not in Wisconsin or the NY-NJ-CT area and CT was always freezing rain.

  But, I cannot get to the garage just yet to check the type of Michelins because we got 12″ of snow and it’s still snowing and another 8+ inches due tomorrow, so right now I wish I had a pair of snow shoes!

  While we are designing the future Saab, please add in more height from road to undercarriage.
  The lenses of my fog lights cracked early on from a parking moment, and part of why I got stuck in my driveway yesterday was that the wheel wells were packed with snow – too close to the ground.

  By the way, Saturday NYT has an article on how India’s banking system escaped the madness, so maybe Tata will come up with some money because I would bet that Saab can be bought at a very good price.

  heck, we could pool our funds and do a Saabista buyout.

  If I ever get out of here, I am going to see about those Michelin x-ice snow tires. after I get those snowshoes.

  Thanks for being such a great blog with such good people!

• 27 Tim in Denver // Dec 21, 2008 at 4:59 am

  thanks, aeronaut.
  I’ve always used All-Season, but maybe it’s time to grow up.
  Despite the impressions US residents have of Colorado, the snow doesn’t stay here all winter long as it might in the Northeast. Ours roads are usually clear within a few days of a major snow storm. Nonetheless, maybe two sets of tires are in order…
  Anyone else have any input/advice?

• 28 Markac // Dec 21, 2008 at 11:05 am

  Good idea Karen. I would estimate that Saab is worth under a billion, and that’s quite cheap. I wish I could put 0.1% into it.

• 29 Richard // Dec 21, 2008 at 2:43 pm

  @ Karen and @ Tim in Denver – Although I’m a little farther north here in Edmonton, Alberta, I won’t drive in any winter season (in Canada or central US) without a set of snow tires on. The difference in performance and safety is so significant that it really is a no-brainer.

  I’m running with a set of Hankook Icebear W300 tires on some basic 15″ steel wheels and they are phenomenal. My indy Saab mechanic of 25 years recommended them. Most of the time I’m stopping and starting in traffic far quicker than any of the SUV drivers who seem to think they have it all under control from their high perch.

  I can really tell that these cars were designed and tested in a northern country when you get those snow tires on and know that this car (2002 9-3 SE hatch) can get me in and out of any snow storm. When I drive my Saab in the winter – and it is winter here now, -28 celsius without the wind chill – I can feel the fine balance, the advantage of a low centre of gravity and – most importantly in the passenger cabin – a heating and defrosting system that actually keeps all windows fog and frost free.

  I think I love my Saab more in the winter because it seems to me that this is when she really shines.

• 30 Karen // Dec 21, 2008 at 3:13 pm

  Hey Tim in Denver – here in the Northeast the salt trucks are out before the first snowflake. Roads cleared during and after the snow.

  The problem I am having is during the weather event. I never needed snow tires with my 99GL in Menasha, Wisconsin, or any blizzard/ ice storm from New Jersey to Connecticut with my 900.

  But my 9-3 wimps out on a patch of ice. Just worse here in the Berkshire Hills.

  And, Richard – my heat control knob fell off a few years ago. I refuse to pay $1300 to replace the entire dash, so I use my a/c to defrost the windows.

  My grudge against GM for both design flaws though the 9-3 is otherwise very reliable. No major problems in 106,000 miles.

  @Markac – yes, I bet one billion USD would buy the brand, intellectual property and Trollhatten factory.

  Surely there are 100,000 Saabistas with ten thousand dollars to invest?

• 31 Bruce // Dec 21, 2008 at 4:30 pm

  Hello Tim, Karen, and all. I live in Montreal where we got 200 inches of snow last year. We also drive south in the 9-5. Any good brand of winter tires will work well in snow. Make sure they have the mountain and snow-flake symbol on the flank. We use Nokian WR winter tires because they are designed to ride on dry warmer pavement without as much wear as other snows. NB: When the weather is below 4C (about 40F) winter tires also improve stopping on dry pavement because 4-season tire rubber hardens up and loses its grip. our 9-5 cuts through snow and ice, even uphill. Yes you need real winter tires. We saved many $ by getting steel wheels one inch smaller and using a taller sidewall–better in deep snow and the mags don’t get salt-pitted. The $40 plastic covers are optional!