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This story’s hitting the Swedish press all over the place today. I’ve had two emails about it already.
Here’s the full story as printed at The Local:
Representatives for thousands of engineers at Saab Automobile and Volvo Cars have proposed that the only way to save Sweden’s auto industry is to merge both companies into one single car manufacturer.
Saab and Volvo still have “complete development organizations” which can conceive, manufacture, and sell cars on the global market, write Magnus Sundemo and Håkan Danielsson in an article in the Svenska Dagbladet (SvD) newspaper.
Sundemo and Danielsson both hold leadership positions within chapters of the Swedish Association of Graduate Engineers (Sveriges Ingenjörer) at Volvo and Saab, respectively.
They claim that together, the companies have sufficient “scale for basically all components which go into determining a competitive manufacturing price”.
At the same time Sundemo and Danielsson reject the scale advantages promised by Saab’s and Volvo’s large foreign owners. According to the two, the potential gains were grossly exaggerated.
Sundemo and Danielsson instead suggest a common development organization for the entire Swedish vehicle industry – an organization which can protect against the loss of industrial competence, they hope.
They add that there are already a model programmes on the drawing board which Volvo and Saab could begin to manufacture relatively quickly.
“The search for a future owner must be directed toward a solution by which industrial know-how and capital generated in the Nordic region and where both brands are retained in a new, common company,” write Sundemo and Danielsson, adding they envisage several owners for such a company.
Thanks Trued and ctm!!!
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My first quick attempt at a logo sketch:
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My 2 cents:
Like Sweden, Australia had two major players in the car market when I was growing up. Until the Corolla made an impression, it was only holden and Ford that mattered. In terms of emotion, it still is only Holden and Ford that matter to your average Aussie.
I can’t imagnie Holden and Ford merging, for obvious reasons. Similarly, though, the possibility of a Volvo and Saab merger has never seemed like a realistic possibility to me. But then again, if your survival’s at stake…..
I’ve long lampooned Volvo at this site and I know from hearing some old war stories from the Swedes that there is a friendly and very natural rivalry there. But underneath, who amongst we Saabnuts doesn’t envy Volvo’s full range. Who wouldn’t love a Saab equivalent of a C30 – one with a useable load space, for example?
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The thing that impresses me the most about this article is hearing a Saab (and Volvo) staffer speaking his mind.
Saab have been let down by their corporate parent.
It is wrong that Saab’s existence is threatened whilst several soul-less brands will carry on producing the automotive equivalent of white goods. I’m sure some smarmy mainstream GM fanboy will say “that’s the price you pay for being small” but screw that.
Trued translated a few sentences from the original article in Swedish that weren’t included in the edited translation at The Local:
The last years have been frustrating, We have seen how advanced technical solutions have been stopped and shipped away and has not come to use to meet the demands from consumers and government…..
….The SAAB 9-3 can with simple means get a drastic reducement of fuel thirst…..Knowledge from aircraft industry gives us possibilites to use carbonfibre composites in combination with high strengt swedish steel. enabeling safe and light cars.
Based on these quotes and the goodwill that seems to have been in the room, I hope the powers that be are exploring every possibility here.
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27 responses so far ↓
1 Jörgen Trued // Dec 10, 2008 at 6:36 pm
In 30 minutes I will be at the Sveriges Ingenjörer (Academic Engineers Trade Union) HQ in Stockholm. I am a chairman för the Engineers in the Governmental Defence Research.
Keep You all posted if anything more of interest “leaks” out today.
Anyone on the forum/TS who is coming to Stockholm today to claim their Nobel Prize?
Worlds greatest party tonight first the traditional festivities, then late at night the prize winners really have a PARTY at KTH, Stockholm Technical University.
2 MarkoA // Dec 10, 2008 at 7:33 pm
Volvo and Saab merging? !!? Sounds too good to be true. This might be a good way to maintain swedish car industry up and running. To me this is positive news! No matter about the name and logo – it Might even be “Saab Volvo” (Like Sony Ericsson we´re already familiar with).
Personally I dont think it will ever happen, but one can always wish. Think of all the best details from Volvo V70 and Saab 9-5 combined in a new, fresh and, no need to say, Safe package.
3 CBD // Dec 10, 2008 at 7:54 pm
This is too good to be true, but in this reality it is undebatable that jobs and models from both sides will have to go.
One would also speculate that Saab would become a low volume niche brand within Volvo, perhaps even focusing on convertibles and alternative energy concepts. This may not necessarily be a bad thing and may be a good berthing for the brand.
But who would be the buyers and where would the money come from, short of buying the pair for next to nothing. A low sale price for Volvo would seem unlikely given the potential growth of it’s wide ranging and up to date models.
Time will tell.
4 kdsaab // Dec 10, 2008 at 8:34 pm
They could be named SAALVO
ROFL
5 mr_ebbot // Dec 10, 2008 at 8:37 pm
anything works for me,
as long as the take advantage of the things that are invented in these to companies. I don’t like Volvo but I respect them and their knowledge. And they both know what is specific about their mark so they won’t compete in that sense.
GM and Ford has not understand their product. Ford has drain Volvo for money. GM has never given Saab a long term finanne and a real chance of becoming a full brand.
6 Mag-X // Dec 10, 2008 at 8:38 pm
The idea sounds both perfect and terrible at the same time.
7 PT // Dec 10, 2008 at 8:54 pm
A merger (joint venture) like this could work just to gain back-ofice and infrastructure efficiencies while the two marques continue to have separate model line-ups under their respective badges. Common platforms, engineering and efficiencies with parts would help – although it would take at least a whole generation of cars to realise this I guess given the GM/Ford camps they are currently in.
I like this idea a lot. How likely is it though?
8 Markac // Dec 10, 2008 at 10:03 pm
There is probably sufficient volume with Volvo and Saab combined to warrant being an independent manufacturer, but I think it would still need part ownership by another company, not necessarily a car manufacturer. Aircraft perhaps?
Volvo was interested in buying Saab in 1989 but serious talks never took place. This may have stemmed from some animosity that had existed between Volvo, Saab and the Wallenbergs since the late seventies.
9 saabyurk // Dec 10, 2008 at 11:26 pm
I feel like Mag-X, however, if done properly so Saab could retain its individuality, and not become a re-badged Volvo, I’m all for it. You would not have the corporate giant owner either skimming off the good technology for themselves, or just shelving it, while not letting the originators use it on their own vehicles. Is that what Trued’s translation was talking about?
Volvo has a storied history, like Saab. I had a 122S once, and a 144. The 122 was a great car. The 144, not so much. I’m optimistic. I hope they do it, but very carefully from Saab’s perspective.
10 David Blumberg // Dec 11, 2008 at 12:03 am
I’m for it. If it means Saab & Volvo can remain in business and produce world-class cars independently from the giants, why should anyone be against it? Saab & Volvo were independent once, and they made a bunch of cars that became classics everyone’s familiar with (900 & 240 for example) and they were & are great cars still.
11 Andy Rupert // Dec 11, 2008 at 12:22 am
Hmm…
Maybe it wouldn’t be such a good idea. Think with me for a moment. The problem with GM rebadging cars came about because they had too many brands. The 9-7x and 9-2x were redundant. So, what will happen if Volvo and SAAB merged? Would the merged company be able to rationalize another convertible and two sedans/wagons to compete against their own models?
C30 hatch
C70, 9-3 convertibles
S40, S60, 9-3, S80, 9-5 sedans
V50, V70, 9-3 combi XC70 wagons, 9-5 wgon
XC60, XC90 SUVs, 9-7x
All of us would like to see SAAB survive (and my job depends on Volvo surviving), but for the merger to work there would have to be some redundancy which would eventually point toward less vehicles in the portfolio. That being said, I’m not too keen on the idea. But then again, drastic measures are on order anyway.
12 Andy Rupert // Dec 11, 2008 at 12:25 am
If it did happen, don’t be surprised if it’s more VAALVO than SAABO.
13 MikeT // Dec 11, 2008 at 12:44 am
I doubt this will happen, particularly as Ford seem determined to dispose of Volvo to the Chinese. However, I actually think that from a product point of view, a Volvo SAAB merger would work well. The customer base is suitably different, but the engineering philosophy (particularly since Volvo took the pragmatic view and went front-wheel drive in the early 90s) seems quite similar. One could imagine a complimentary range of cars with larger estates/MPVs/SUVs sold as Volvo and smaller hatches/convertibles/sports cars with the SAAB badge. In truth I have never quite understood the negativity towards Volvo of some SAABists. Rivalry yes, but the rubbishing of the products, particularly with regard to safety, is unwarranted. It also should not be forgotten that there has been an interchange of engineers between the two companies over the years. Most significantly, Per Gillbrand and Olle Granlund were Volvo men, whilst Rolf Mellde went to Volvo from SAAB. GM/SAAB and Ford/Volvo always seemed wrong to me. Might have worked better as Ford/SAAB and GM/Volvo?
14 SaabKen // Dec 11, 2008 at 2:48 am
Interesting notion. I have a lot of mixed feelings about this.
However if this becomes the last resort to maintain the integrity of SAAB and VOLVO in Swedish hands with control of their own destinies (versus bought out by foreign firms) then I’m warm to it.
In a way, a SAAB/VOLVO merger *could* result in a similar arrangement to Hyundai’s takeover (or merger) of Kia, but Kia was re-positioned to be a sportier line appealing to younger buyers while Hyundai maintained its more conservative philosophy and products.
15 Nate 9-3 // Dec 11, 2008 at 2:48 am
What about the prospect of having the parent company being “SAAB VOLVO” and then having two separate brands with some parts and platform sharing? I think that could work simply on an idea level. There would be some overlap, to Andy Rupert’s point, but the two cars do not have to cater to the same crowds.
SAAB has always been for the free-thinker, radical, individual. They can continue to appeal to that base.
VOLVO can appeal to the more straight-laced person and the soccer mom. That’s what they are good at.
Both of those segments want safety, reliability and value. They just want it expressed in different forms.
The one thing that might be a bummer is the sharing of engines. If shared, the engines would likely have to be tuned very differently to maintain each brand’s identity. Perhaps ovloV could have bigger displacement, NA versions and SAAB could tune the smaller displacement versions to be turbos?
I do like the idea of ovloV being able to keep their line up and reputation which might encourage SAAB to be SAAB and be even more cutting edge than GM has let them be.
Interesting and Hopeful stuff.
16 Bill H. // Dec 11, 2008 at 3:03 am
There are many pluses and minuses to such a merger idea, of course. Just as there are to my own Modest Proposal–
From the newswire: The Swedish Government, citing incompetent management by the US headquarters of both Ford and GM, and noting that the auto industry constitutes a large fraction of total exports, today seized the Sweden-based assets of both companies. Stockholm said that no compensation will be forthcoming to Ford or GM, in partial payment of said mismanagement and the subsequent loss of jobs and market share that both companies had before their takeovers by the Detroit firms. Any GM/Ford assets not directly a part of Volvo or Saab will be sold and proceeds used for a reconstituted Swedish automobile firm incorporating both marques.
Yes, I’m sure there would be legal blowback, WTO etc. But a Swedish smack upside the head to the brand-killing morons in the US who helped bring about these events would be a good Bergmann-like revenge story.
17 Adam // Dec 11, 2008 at 3:12 am
They are two premium brands, and would come together to save the Swedish national automobile industry, and both are known for customers who won’t settle for anything less, so how about:
Swedish National Automobile, AB. Or, SNAAB. … bad joke?
18 Karen // Dec 11, 2008 at 4:07 am
Great fantasy Bill H. Is there enough Viking DNA left for a political “smack upside the head to the brand-killing morons in the US”. Please?
Engineers back in charge – the real solution.
Arctic nations unite!
19 Tiago do Vale // Dec 11, 2008 at 4:26 am
Andy:
The VAG group operates exactly with that overlap, and their strategy works!
It may seem that Seat, VW and Skoda (and even some Audis) have many many redundant vehicles, but in fact that apparent redundancy provides huuuugeeee economies of scale, and, surprisingly, even if in the same segments, each brand has it’s market, it’s own target market.
Saabs and Volvos can be in the same segment and be so different cars…
I think Saab would be the one with the most to win, in such a partership.
20 MikeT // Dec 11, 2008 at 4:39 am
Engines not a problem! Volvo still has an engine plant (Skovde) and SAAB has its variable compression engine concept (killed by GM). Just put the two together. Anyway, Volvo is supposed to be killing its V8 and I6 and moving to small capacity turbos for the next generation.
21 José Galvão // Dec 11, 2008 at 6:10 am
IF they join to share some platforms, parts, logistics and some knoledje and still be tottally independent, that´s a good idea….
Like united in an name ( Swedish Car Company – SCC ) and still have thier own names and logos
That way i think it´s ok…. nothing else will be good to both companies ( in my opinion )
22 gpg // Dec 11, 2008 at 6:20 am
Our first Saab was a 1987 9000 turbo, that was purchased after trading in our 1986 Mercedes that stopped on the highway after being serviced by the dealer. Since then we have had a total of 8 Saabs and presently have a 1999 Viggen, 2001 Viggen and 2008 9-5 SC in the family. We have looked at Volvo’s but always went back to Saab.
GM as every one now knows was a giant with a very small brain and their present condition truly is unbelievable. They really have not understood what they had in Saab and what direction they were to go with them. For an example, GM paid Fiat $2 Bil to get out of a non-functioning contract, Cadillac’s built in Sweden. Hummer, etc.
It would be great if Saab and Volvo could co-exist under one company with one R & D Dept. Each company has their loyal following and by using their combined size could compete within the world’s automotive market. Saab’s output should probably have 4 individual segments (9-x Biopower, 9-3,
9-4x and 9-5); with both FW Drive and XWD in each segment.
We can only dream and if you have ever flown by yourself above the clouds, then that is the feeling that I would have if this were to actually happen.
23 Greg Abbott // Dec 11, 2008 at 9:55 am
Bill H. – the legal obstacles to your modest proposal are insurmountable. Certainly Sweden could seize anything inside the country’s borders, but GM owns the name, brand, and all intellectual property of Saab. Intellectual property laws being what they are, and international treaty rights being what they are, no cars could be sold outside of Sweden badged as “Saab.” Nor could those cars be designed to look like Saabs, nor could their construction or components use any design elements owned by GM via Saab.
GM would have to sell the rights back to Sweden for any of that to be possible, and the expropriation you describe would increase the cost of buying the rights to Saab exponentially.
The way to accomplish what you describe is simply to have the Swedish government buy Saab outright from GM. Cheaper, faster, and legal.
On the merger idea, as long as Saab retains its separate identity and character I’m all for it. Certainly the model lines can be streamlined. Let Volvo sell the SUVs. Let Saab sell the convertibles and hatchbacks.
24 Gerald // Dec 11, 2008 at 10:22 am
It has always made sense, and now it’s almost vital. The people with the most to lose if Saab and/or Volvo go under are the Swedes, so they need to contact GM and Ford and buy up both companies. GM should be glad to have Saab off their hands, Ford will put up more of a fight but they don’t have all that much leverage at the moment.
Merge the two companies, lightly nationalize them so the Swedish people benefit from the marriage, and let them figure out how to integrate. Let’s not forget, both marques do well in Europe so they have value even if Saab has to give up on the US for new car sales. Perhaps only for a few years.
25 SaabKen // Dec 11, 2008 at 10:45 am
Adam said: “Swedish National Automobile, AB. Or, SNAAB.”
LMAO ! That made my day, Adam
26 Tiago do Vale // Dec 11, 2008 at 10:53 am
Is there any chance of having Volvo AB in the mix? They have production facilities in North America.
(And Scania in South America, but I guess MAN and VW kind of limit the possibility of Scania’s partnership in this hypothetical project.)
27 David Blumberg // Dec 11, 2008 at 12:33 pm
Another post by me… I agree with what some people have suggested: to create a company above Saab & Volvo that owns both, with joint R&D. Saab & Volvo are different enough to each appeal to a different market segment and thus overcome the “overlapping” problem. They have different images and different followings. It would work I think.
The Swedish government should act now before either marque is bought by the Chinese…
And, actually, the more I read about this crisis, the more I see how Saab needs to be 100% GM (General Motors/Genetically Modified… hmm interesting?) free. Saab was never & never will be a GM product.
And I also think the Swedes should take out their old axes & helmets and seize Saab & Volvo. Sure it would cause lots of problems, but just imagine how much fun it would be!