46 responses so far ↓

• 1 MarkS // Dec 3, 2008 at 12:29 am

  The US automaker’s pilgrimage to congress was covered on Fox news this morning here in the US. Below is a portion of the story regarding the “new plan”:

  “With eight separate brands, GM will also discuss efforts to shed brands but it would prefer to sell them instead of shutting down Pontiac, Saturn or Saab, said one of the people briefed on the plan. Killing off brands, like GM did with Oldsmobile in 2004, would require cash the company doesn’t have. The people briefed on GM’s preparations didn’t want to be identified because the plan hadn’t been completed”.

  Let’s hope for the best folks………….

• 2 Golfhunter // Dec 3, 2008 at 12:34 am

  Sleep well

• 3 bornfromjets03 // Dec 3, 2008 at 12:55 am

  I hate the drive-by media for this reason, nothing official has been said from GM, thus it’s pointless for the media to speculate.

• 4 ctm // Dec 3, 2008 at 1:09 am

  Good luck sleeping, Swade. I know it’s gonna be hard for me to do that if the decision is not public within 7-8 hours or so… Not that I really want to know it, but anyway… *sigh*

• 5 Mag-X // Dec 3, 2008 at 1:13 am

  I can see them getting rid of Pontiac, Buick, and Saturn. Those two offer nothing and compete with other GM cars. Saab has its own engineers and designers that contribute to more than just Saab itself.

• 6 ctm // Dec 3, 2008 at 1:20 am

  According to an undersecretary in the Swedish Government, the situation is worse for Saab than for Volvo. Saab is smaller and more integrated into GM, and hence more dependent on the strategic decisions at GM and Opel.

  He confirms that Sweden is in talk with Germany about a coordinated financial packages for Opel and Saab.

  “But right now, we are more or less waiting for GM to go public with want they want to do. They own the companies. We cannot take over their positions as the owner. It has to begin with they deciding what they want to do.”

  According to the undersecretary, they had not received any advanced information from GM about Saab in Trollhättan.

• 7 Ubermich // Dec 3, 2008 at 1:46 am

  CEOs driving and flying business class this time:
  http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/081202/autos_ceo_travel.html

• 8 ctm // Dec 3, 2008 at 1:48 am

  Ford has now detailed some of their plans:

  http://www.leftlanenews.com/ford-details-business-plan-to-congress.html

• 9 Jörgen Trued // Dec 3, 2008 at 1:49 am

  Here is a picture from New York Times that shows GM v.s. Toyota on brands within the big company.
  It gives a good view of the size of SAAB and within the SAAB box I believe I can see a very small box filled with 2000 Turbo X cars

  http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2008/12/02/business/02auto.graphic.jpg

  ctm: have You been in contact with the undersecretary yourself or do You have a link to where to find the info?

• 10 Mag-X // Dec 3, 2008 at 1:56 am

  That graph is interesting. How does buick manage to sell so many cars? I never seem the out in the wild. Where are they all?

• 11 ctm // Dec 3, 2008 at 2:00 am

  Jörgen Trued,

  Here it is: http://di.se/Avdelningar/Artikel.aspx?ArticleID=2008\122\314264&sectionid=

• 12 Jörgen Trued // Dec 3, 2008 at 2:07 am

  Mag-X: Chinese folks luv ´em!
  ctm: Thanks for the link. How is Simrishamn these days (your coat-of-arms avatar)

• 13 eggsngrits // Dec 3, 2008 at 2:08 am

  Jörgen Trued: Interesting find, but it’s a little slanted. The Toyota boxes combine Camry/Solara and Corolla/Matrix while GM doesn’t get to combine Colorado/Trailblazer or Silverado/Tahoe/Avalanche? Those vehicles are much more similar than the Camry/Solara or Corolla/Matrix!

  Mag-X: Buicks are good sellers here, especially the Enclave which is a very well-crafted SUV. In my experience the Lucerne still skews towards older drivers as you would expect from Buick.

• 14 theowl // Dec 3, 2008 at 2:35 am

  @ Mag-X – I see Buicks down South. So, I guess that is where they are selling. Here in Washington, DC, you see a Buick Enclave from time to time.

• 15 Eduard // Dec 3, 2008 at 2:53 am

  And the sales of Buick are similar to the Saab ones globally. And I imagine the Buick ones are global also.

  If you check the Pontiac and Saturn ones, they only sell them in USA, with models basically based in Opel ones or Holden or Daewoo/Chevy.

  Check the Pontiac models, the only real Pontiac is the G, the others are badge engineering, Saturn is a badge engineering of Opel, why then all of that structure for a brand like this?? to add some “american” touch???

  In that graph, the “white line” that separates every brand with GM are the “extra” structural costs that GM has, when big part of the models they sell in USA are badge engineering from other brands, USA or global. This structure is quite similar in the other Big2.

  regards

• 16 Charles // Dec 3, 2008 at 2:57 am

  Well GMI is reporting Saab is officially up for sale. But it does not include the engineering and R&D of Saab. But the Trollhattan plant and I guess the name plate. So it seems they are just trying to sell the name plate so some company can stick it on other random cars.

  http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f70/breaking-saab-officially-sale-72140/

• 17 Jon // Dec 3, 2008 at 3:10 am

  If thats the case then its very similar to what BMW did to Rover. Take the good bits (Land Rover 4×4 and MINI) and run.

  BMW raped Rover and it looks like GM is doing the same to Saab

• 18 Kroum // Dec 3, 2008 at 3:32 am

  And in the middle of all this, fresh new spy photos of the 9-4X at Left Lane News.

• 19 ctm // Dec 3, 2008 at 3:41 am

  After years and years and years of waiting for a road plan forward and new models and decisions… When it has all come together, with a 9-3X, a new 9-4X in final testing, decisions been made about the future 9-3, and months away from spy pics of the new 9-5, and talks about a smaller Saab after yet a brilliant concept… Well, of course, at that exact time in history there has to be a major world-wide financial crises that will probably kill the whole brand because they need money for the UAW agreements. ****! ****, ****, ****! I feel as lucky as Al “shoe-salesman” Bundy…

• 20 Eduard // Dec 3, 2008 at 3:49 am

  Then this is the worst scenario……..like MG/Rover, selling the brand in pieces.

  This is the end………

  cheers

• 21 NJ_Nick // Dec 3, 2008 at 4:02 am

  Is this really official? I get the impression from the link that it is not….

  Besides, SAAB’s strength has always been its R&D and engineering. Who would want to pay any serious amount of money for simply a niche brand name plate and a factory in peripheral Sweden? I think they would have a hard time to find any takers there….

• 22 Eduard // Dec 3, 2008 at 4:15 am

  Something interesting I read in saabhistory.com its about the end of the Griffin logo, it seems they only could use during 20 years. That’s the reason why they introduce in the lasts concepts the word SAAB instead of the griffin logo.

  I Hope isn’t for sure, but everything points to the situation that Saab will be sold, but in a bad way like Rover, and then it will be the end.

  the integration of Saab in GM, as a way of reducing costs and being more protected and considered in the GM structure its the worst thing when the company goes down, because then is when the company is cut in pieces and sold badly.

  regards

• 23 Tom // Dec 3, 2008 at 4:24 am

  I am going to remain optimistic. Its a buyers market and no one will pay a premium for the name alone. The buyer, if they can find one, will demand the backroom staff that made Saab what it is or was.

  To answer Mag-X’s question concerning never seeing Buicks in the wild. It has been my experience that older people buy them. They are probably all back at home after their 4:00 Supper by time every one else gets off work;)

• 24 Saabboy1 // Dec 3, 2008 at 4:34 am

  I’m afraid to say it but the General is in bad shape, they can’t sell anything else anyway because no one wants Hummer or Pontiac, Saab is still a desirable brand. The car (the 9-3SS) is stunning, and I bet the new 9-5 is even more so. So step up Porsche and make us all happy for the next generation of Saab Automobile AB!!

• 25 max // Dec 3, 2008 at 5:03 am

  Great news GM can keep Saab…Rick Wagoner is going to work for $1.00. Now they can bring out the new 9-5. The cone-heads want to keep GMC truck and dump the lines that get the best gas mileage like Saab, Saturn and Pontiac. They honestly just don’t get it. It won’t change until change happens at the top of GM….Listening Rick? Get out! Afterall anyone willing to work for $1.00 can’t be worth keeping athe top of any organization……Thanks!…. nothing personal I wish you good luck!

• 26 Bernard // Dec 3, 2008 at 5:04 am

  So the rumour is that they are selling it (the name and factory) and not selling it (the people and technology) at the same time.

  This looks more and more like a horse and pony show. GM needs to show that they are doing something, so they put a “for sale” sign on Saab. However, they don’t really want to get rid of the parts they still need (and others would want). That’s like putting up your house for sale, and saying that the purchaser will get a picture of the house, but can’t move in or use the land.

  I guess what I’m asking is “is Saab really for sale, or is GM just making a show of selling Saab?” It looks to me like they will entertain the notion of selling Saab until the situation improves, at which point they will announce that Saab is no longer for sale.

  I’m not sure how I feel about that. I guess it depends on who the potential buyers are, and what they intend to do with the brand. I guess I’m still dreaming of a 9-1 based on the Alfa Mito and a 9-3 based on the Brera.

• 27 WooDz // Dec 3, 2008 at 5:05 am

  Just heard the news on German TV that November was the worst sales month since 1989. Toyota came top of the ladder of the largest sales fall with a 39% fall over November 2007.. 39%…. their is justice after all.

• 28 Bernard // Dec 3, 2008 at 5:19 am

  “I guess I’m still dreaming of a 9-1 based on the Alfa Mito and a 9-3 based on the Brera.”

  I just read on Wikipedia that the Brera’s platform was originally designed by Saab, and the MiTo uses a Corsa platform. I guess Alfa (Fiat) would make a good buyer after all…

• 29 Tompa // Dec 3, 2008 at 5:25 am

  So if GM were to sell the Saab brand name.. What would happen to the 9-4X and 9-5? Rebadge them into good looking Chevys or what?

  No, I´m optimistic that GM deside to hold on to Saab and release the 9-4X nd 9-5 NOW.. Thats one way for them to make money. The 9-5 will sell like crazy if GM care to market it well.. As I understand the 9-5 is finished and could be ready for order soon. ?

  Common GM.. Please

  (Question.. Why is there a GMC brand at all?)

• 30 Mailr // Dec 3, 2008 at 5:30 am

  Well, I think GM will make a huge mistake if they think that they can sell the nameplate and the factory while retaining only the personnel they like. If you ever been to Trollhattan you would realize that this city is living in symbiosis with the Saab car factory. If some well regarded entity buys the nameplate and the factory, they would not have to do any work to get most key personnel back in place, as loyalty to the town’s (and surrounding areas) future wellbeing. Part of GM powertrain is already outsourced. As long as the factory production is retained, and some bridging deal is in place, missing engineers will not be a problem for Saab in the medium-short term. Long term viability is another matter, though.

  Lets see how things pan out, new situations also means new possibilities.

• 31 Kroum // Dec 3, 2008 at 5:36 am

  So far GMI is the only outlet that has come up with this bit of news. It’s starting to smell fishy, especially that bit that they are only going to be selling the Trollhattan factory and the brand name. Unless GM execs have gone completely mad, this makes no sense whatsoever.

  Tompa, the talk of how GM has too many brands is very biased and really not based on any business sense. If you look at the graph Jörgen posted, GMC sells well over 300,000 cars annually. Why give up those sales? Badge-engineered Chevys or not, there are obviously people who buy them.

• 32 Kroum // Dec 3, 2008 at 5:41 am

  Bloomberg is reporting “GM directors finished a two-day meeting that included consideration of selling brands, people have said”.

• 33 max // Dec 3, 2008 at 5:51 am

  GMC buyers will buy Chevrolets. Its the ultimate version of platform sharing. Use quick snap grills and call it a…….Saab er Chevrolet er GMC er Buick whatever …..the end is unfortunately near….:(

• 34 wilfried // Dec 3, 2008 at 6:10 am

  Can’t imagine the Fiat group buying a premium brand.
  They have Alfa’s & Lancia’s as premium versions of nearly every Fiat, with the trouble defining those two brands.
  Alfa is supposed to be the “sporty premium” version of a Fiat,
  while Lancia is supposed to be the “luxury premium” version of a Fiat.
  What about the “Ferrari/Maserati twin-brand”, which is essentialy a copy of the Alfa/Lancia twin brand, the first one is for sport, the other one is for luxury – just in much higher end of the market.
  Where would Saab fit in that picture ? To add some “quality premium” version ?
  And consider the financial situation of the Fiat group, if they aspire Saab, where would they take the needed cash from ?

  Does a Opel/Vauxhall – Saab tandem make more sense ?

  What is left at the moment in saab R&D and engineering ? Hasn’t everything about Saab engineering been drained towards other components in the GM-group ? Is Saab still capable as a stand alone brand without GM ? Or are there just some marketeers and designers left ?

  A lot of questions in a speculative atmosphere.
  I hope the forthcoming Saab-pride book doesn’t end up as a reminder of a once good car manufacturer.

• 35 Tompa // Dec 3, 2008 at 6:12 am

  Max, the end is Not near.

  Kroum.. Thanx for the answer. Strange how people can make a difference just by a grille.

• 36 wilfried // Dec 3, 2008 at 6:26 am

  If is is up to me, I’ll have a wishing list for Santa Claus:
  Proton – Lotus – Saab makes sense to me.

  A combination of :
  a (’non-well outlined and maybe rather obscure and lack of character’) volume brand /
  a smart engineering brand which occacionally produces brilliant uncompromised sportscars /
  a brand we all like (over here at TS).

  A bit like Tata with Jag & LandRover, that is.
  OK, catalogise it as pure nonsense.
  (And someday the return of the clean and crispy FWD Elan II/Sonett will occur …)

• 37 Per // Dec 3, 2008 at 6:29 am

  GM releases plan to Congress after market closes.
  http://www.detroitnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/frontpage

• 38 Bernard // Dec 3, 2008 at 6:39 am

  Wilfried,

  Lancia doesn’t sell in any significant numbers outside of Italy. They are endearing, but largely irrelevant.

  Alfa and Saab could get some great synergies going. Alfa needs Saab’s turbo and platform knowhow, and Saab needs Alfa’s diesel knowhow. As mentioned earlier, Alfa is already using Saab platforms (the same ones that Saab would be using if GM wasn’t so gun-shy about launching new models).

  On top of that, Saab is established in North America, which Alfa isn’t. Say what you want about the current state of the US market, the fact remains that the US is a very rich country and there is no reason to believe that the US economy will not recover within the next few years, as they have from previous cyclical downturns (every 8 years on average since WWII).

• 39 Tompa // Dec 3, 2008 at 6:59 am

  Well it seams like a sell is a go… Hopefully at the right price and that GM launch the newly developed cars prehand. When it comes to GM holding on to technicians i Sweden that would not be a problem for the future Saab products. I can say that to 90% Saab people remain Saab people and would follow the new Saab owner.. Which ever that is. Hopefully not a company that would totaly starve Sweden and Trollhattan from production.

  Bernard.. My dream is also the Fiat group. And you are right, Lancia is a very limited brand. Saab would fit the Fiat group like a glove.

  Cheers/Tom

• 40 wilfried // Dec 3, 2008 at 7:02 am

  OK, back years ago the 9000 was a nice example as an outcome of fiat-lancia-saab-coöperation. The 9000 succeeded, while the Lancia Thema and the Fiat version (what was the name again ?) did not.
  Recent 1,9 TiD is great. Not what I expected from Milan or Torino, and much more build quality compared with my ill Illy espresso machine.But why synergies between company’s that get each other in the way in the market ? Isn’t that just another start for future badge engineering ?
  A lot of (European) potential Saab-buyers might be potential Alfa-buyers.
  Mainly because these buyers do not like the German Triumvirate, the French stuff which is to soft or to Germanised (C4 lately?) and British brands were killed of decades ago. And because the image of a ovlov doesn’t fit, nor the image of a Vauxhall, an Opel or a Ford.

• 41 Tompa // Dec 3, 2008 at 7:04 am

  from GM.com

  http://media.gm.com/servlet/GatewayServlet?target=http://image.emerald.gm.com/gmnews/viewmonthlyreleasedetail.do?domain=74&docid=50755

• 42 Kroum // Dec 3, 2008 at 7:13 am

  It’s official now, all over the web. GM will go down to four code brands: Chevy, Cadillac, Buick and GMC.

• 43 Kroum // Dec 3, 2008 at 7:18 am

  Deleted by Kroum – did not see Swade’s post. Sorry!

• 44 Daniel // Dec 3, 2008 at 7:24 am

  From GM: “Market and Retail Operations – In the U.S., GM will focus its product development and marketing efforts on four core brands – Chevrolet, Cadillac, Buick and GMC. Pontiac will be a specialty brand with reduced product offerings within the Buick-Pontiac-GMC channel. Hummer has recently been put under strategic review, which includes the possible sale of the brand, and GM will immediately undertake a global strategic review of the Saab brand. As part of the plan, the company also will accelerate discussions with the Saturn retailers, consistent with their unique relationship, to explore alternatives for the Saturn brand.”

• 45 Patrick L(Mr_Gear) // Dec 3, 2008 at 7:31 am

  Just heard it in the news here in Sweden – GM has just announced they intend to sell Saab and are now looking for buyers.

  Quote: “General Motors ska leta efter en köpare till Saab, uppger GM:s näst högste chef Fritz Henderson. ”
  Translation(or close at least): “General Motors will be looking for a buyer for Saab, said GM:s second top CEO Fritz Herderson.”

• 46 Tompa // Dec 3, 2008 at 7:37 am

  Saab will be sold. I´m not worried.. Only who will be the buyer. I´m rooting Fiat.
  What confuses me is:
  1.What is going to happen with the 9-4X, NG9-5 and 9-3X?
  2.The new Saab products are out testing although the executives must have known the outcome of todays pressrelease for some time now. Will they be released as part of the deal with a buyer and fill production?

  So many questions…