26 responses so far ↓

• 1 Bernard // Dec 15, 2008 at 5:57 am

  All he’s saying is that he wants to build the new 9-5, and potentially other Saabs, even if GM sells the brand.
  I am sure that his dream scenario is to have the plant in Trollhattan shut down so that all Saabs are built by his union, and no Opels are built in Sweden.

  He is the union head, so his priorities are different from those of Saab and of GM. He’ll build anything as long as his people remain gainfully employed.

• 2 WooDz // Dec 15, 2008 at 6:10 am

  Klaus Franz should learn to keep his mouth shut if he wants Saab away from OPEL. He talks of Saab being on the brink of extinction and considers the brand beyond any economic investment plan. Yet thinks that Rüsselsheim can produce a future 9-5 for a new owner? I don’t understand the point he is trying to make. Saab has no future or that Franz believes that GM are just not up the job, that after 18 years he feels it necessary to publicly admit that GM has neglected Saab and serious incompetence by the management including himself are just not cut out for producing premium class cars.

  Considering the natural barrage of nonsense that Franz is reported to be saying of late, I gather the later is probably closer to the truth

• 3 ctm // Dec 15, 2008 at 6:39 am

  Beginning to feel a tinzy winzy desperate, ja, Franz?

• 4 1985 Gripen // Dec 15, 2008 at 7:07 am

  So if I understand that correctly he’s advocating the sale of Saab by GM, but that GM would retain Opel? That’s pretty interesting as I don’t see Saab as all that much of a threat to Opel unless Trollhattan were to get some production which Opel would normally do.

  I don’t see Opel manufacturing the 9-5 in Germany as being advantageous to any potential Saab (company) buyer. A new Saab (company) owner would have the Trollhattan factory and its extremely underutilized production capacity as an asset. The only reason the 9-5 is being produced in Russelsheim is because it’s cheaper than producing them in Trollhattan, right? (There’s also the fact that it’s on the Epsilon architecture, whereas the THN plant was/is to be set up for the new Delta architecture – SW) Who bought the old Saab engine manufacturing plant earlier this year (the one that made the 2.3 liter inline 4 for the 9-5)? Contract with them to provide new Saab engine designs. Ditch the Holden V6 and the Opel port-injected Ecotec.

  I think this union rep wants his cake and to eat it too. He doesn’t want the competition from Trollhattan infringing on German production workers (hence the call to sell Saab) but he doesn’t want to lose the 9-5 production. Nice.

  If GM were to sell Saab would they consider the 9-5 a threat to Opel Insignia sales? I know the 9-5 would be more “upmarket”, but it’s in basically the same segment, I would think, right?

  I think any buyer of Saab would have to be out of their mind to not build Saabs in Trollhattan. I would think that they would insist on producing the 9-5 in Trollhattan (having to re-tool the factory, of course) alongside the next-gen 9-3 (which they would have to insist on buying the rights to produce). Heck, if FIAT were to buy Saab perhaps Saab could use the platform they were going to base the 9-5 on when it was canceled back in ‘05 if it’s not too technologically out-of-date now.

  The 9-4X would be re-badged as a Cadillac, or a Buick, or dropped altogether. Or it could be sold to the new Saab buyers, still be released as a Saab and just continue to be made in Ramos Arizpe, Mexico. Saab loses the exclusivity of Haldex’s 4th-gen AWD system next year anyway. There’s no reason the new buyer couldn’t get the 9-4X as well. I don’t know why they’d want it, but that’s just my opinion. I think the 9-4X in its N.A.-destined non-turbo V6 form is a really stupid product in 2010 and I’d let GM keep that little mistake instead of taking it off their hands.

  Screw Opel. Bring all Saab production back to Trollhattan, hire back the Swedish ex-pat Saab engineers now working for GME in Germany, and utilize the local engineering base in Sweden to make Saabs Swedish again.

• 5 Eduard(Edusaab) // Dec 15, 2008 at 7:34 am

  This guy its a big moron….. Ok, sell Saab, all the resources then for Opel, buuuut we should mantain the production of Saab models. Very clever, very clever. If I am a Saab executive the first thing I will do if Saab is out of GM is looking for a contractor for the 9-5, Magna Steyr?? Valmet??

  And with those guys, Saab should mantain joint developments?? with that egoism?? these words are a big offend for Saab. This is the typical egoism of the syndicalist and socialism in many politics, “First its me and then the rest”.

  Few years ago when GME announced the last jobs reduction in Europe plants, it was the first to ask for help from Trollhattan syndicalists and people to create a lobby of plant workers against GME. This is pure hipocrisy

  regards

• 6 zippy // Dec 15, 2008 at 7:49 am

  This guy should sit down so we cant hear him talking out of his backside!

  Speaking 9-5, WHERE THE BLOODY HELL IS THE PICTURE?

  Thank you.

• 7 bleuler // Dec 15, 2008 at 7:59 am

  1985 Gripen – I agree with you.

  However,I had it in my mind that both the Ecotec and the HF 2.8 V6 were a joint design bwtn Saab, Opel and GM NA. Saab took the lead on the turbo versions of both. Holden only builds the V6. I’ve read that Saab had a very heavy hand in the ecotec’s develpoment.

• 8 Markac // Dec 15, 2008 at 8:20 am

  When I wrote my little piece for trollhattansaab earlier in the year about GM’s acquisition of Saab in 1989 and how things might have gone differently (sorry Swade I forgot the date), I suggested that GM could sell Saab and supply the new 9-5 to it’s new owner for a time. Now other people are thinking the same thing. Anyway I don’t think this could happen on an indefinite basis, but it does allow a new owner to get a new 9-3 happening at Trollhattan and then concentrate on a 9-5 to be built in it’s own factory. If the new 9-5 is as good as we’ve been led to believe, I still think it can be used as a bargaining chip for the sale of Saab at a reasonable price. If however, it turns out to be little more than a tarted-up Insignia, it will do litlle to help the sale of Saab to anyone. In fact it won’t help Saab much at all.

• 9 Dippen // Dec 15, 2008 at 8:23 am

  I guess Klaus Franz is getting nervous in the GM-boat and now wants to save his own a**.

• 10 Mailr // Dec 15, 2008 at 8:34 am

  If Saab is sold, then the new owners are free to allow deals that GM didn’t. Such as using the work done on the Subaru Tribenca and the Alfa 159. The pictures on the 9-6 design indicate that reviving that project may not be that expensive.

  But the Rüsselheim 9-5 probably have to be produced for a number of years anyway, so Franz comments I think confirms the obvious: Rüsselheim has to produce the 9-5 for a number of years no matter who takes over Saab.

  The 9-4X, on the other hand, is another thing, Saab has more options there, reviving the 9-6 being one. Also, I have studied the 9-4X prototype in Trollhättan, and I think it does deviate quite a bit from previous Saabs, it’s lacking attention to detail and is more built in GMNA style (unsurprisingly). When I look at the frame of the hatch of the 9-4X and compare it to the 9000CS I really wonder about the ambition level of the engineering. The frame could easily have been made at least 2 inches wider, and I’m pretty sure that if this was design as an old school Saab that would have been “fixed”.

• 11 Alex // Dec 15, 2008 at 10:11 am

  I don’t care where it’s built, but if they’re going to begin production in the fall, that doesn’t just mean that the car is finished, it means that it’s finished and they’re in the process of tooling up for it as we speak.

  With that in mind I find it kind of odd that they aren’t at least leaking teasers to build anticipation for the foolish thing.

• 12 Karen // Dec 15, 2008 at 10:26 am

  Why would anyone with Opel want to continue to be a part of GM?

  The contract manufacturing is always an option regardless of ownership. But Trollhatten for Saabs must be the future! I guess I am unclear what GM has done there – is Trollhatten solely being retooled for their GME Cadillac? Isn’t that a crime in Sweden? Can’t the King do something?

• 13 Rune (the other one) // Dec 15, 2008 at 4:49 pm

  The king, when he is behind the wheel himself, drives either a Porsche or a BMW (the latter is apparently hard to keep on the road, so he has crashed it at least once).

  So, after a quick googling-session, I conclude that the Swedish king is not suited for the task.

• 14 progolf // Dec 15, 2008 at 5:41 pm

  Lets face it! The next gen 9-5 will have to be built in Germany. The 9-4X will have to be built in Mexico. Full stop. The next gen 9-3 can be built anywhere depending on swho owns SAAB at that time.

• 15 Markac // Dec 15, 2008 at 6:00 pm

  progolf: I don’t think any buyer of Saab would pick up the 9-4x. If you were buying Saab would you really want source two cars from GM? I think not. A new 9-5 is essential. A repalcement SUV isn’t. By the time the 9-4x is scheduled to be released (mid 2010) the SUV market wiil have likely declined so much it’s probably not worth the bothering with anyway. The the 9-7x was only really produced for North America. The rest of Saab’s markets never had an SUV so they won’t miss it. The 9-3 crossover can take up the slack and hopefully be joined by a 9-5 crossover later. That’s the way Saab should be heading.

• 16 progolf // Dec 15, 2008 at 6:28 pm

  I think that will depend on the buyer. If SAAB is still to be sold in USA, the new buyer will probably launch the 9-4X. It’s quite a lot larger than the 9-3X so it will appeal more to soccer mums. Here in Scandinavia I think you could sell a few as well. SUVs and Crossovers with AWD are still quite popular. With hybrid technology, electric propultion, ethanol etc. you could still make a point for these kind of cars. I agree with you Markac that the way forward is the new 9-5 (also with a Crossover version!), although I’m afraid it will only be a variation on the Opel Insignia at a much higher price, the next gen 9-3 (with a Crossover version), cab and the all new 9-1 generation. Just look at what BMW has done to MINI. The right owner could really make SAAB a great niche player. So, please Porsche, buy SAAB.

• 17 Arild // Dec 15, 2008 at 6:58 pm

  I bet Opel is drooling over the new 9-5 and want to make it their new flagship Opel Omega!

• 18 Markac // Dec 15, 2008 at 6:58 pm

  A 9-1 crossover would be good too. I just don’t think a niche player should make SUVs. That’s just playing “me to” and Saab doesn’t need to do that. Let’s face it, if the replacement 9-5 had been released when it was meant to back in 2005, there probably wouldn’t have been a 9-7x and Saab wouldn’t have been dragged into the SUV market in the first place. It was just another bad GM decision. Anyway how will a Mexican Saab go down in Scandinavia? I’m sure it would get a few chuckles!

  I’m worried about the 9-5 too. If it’s just a dressed up Insignia Saab will be in big trouble and Saab will have nowhere to go. The new 9-5 needs to be a huge leap over the Insignia if it has any chance of success, and I’m not sure with Opel building it, that can be pulled off. BTW the Mini is great except for the clubman version!

• 19 ctm // Dec 15, 2008 at 7:11 pm

  Remember the times when the plants at GM Europe where looked at because they wanted to decide on the future organization and what to build where? How the unions – especially the German one – demanded cooperation and coordination between the unions in the different countries? That they should speak as one to be strong and help out each other? Seems Herr Franz forgot all about that now, true to the traditions of IG Metall. Hopefully this is not a sign of how things are at GM Europe in general, but rather a lone fool that just should keep his mouth shut.

• 20 Daniel B // Dec 15, 2008 at 8:16 pm

  Hi all,

  Just read todays issue of the Swedish industry paper “Dagens Industri” who have an article on Saab investigating the option of taking production of the new 9-5 home to Sweden.
  I haven´t been able to find the article in digital format yet, so here is a fast and rough translation of that:

  “Saab wants to take the german production home

  Saab Automobile is working hard to get the production of the new 9-5 from germany Russelsheim, back home to Sweden. It has shown that the factory in Trollhättan lately has passed the german factory in aspects of effeciency and cost.

  According to the sources of Dagens Industri Saab has studied the options of taking the production of the new 9-5 home to Trollhättan as well as the 9-3 convertible. The suprisingly fast improvement of the efficiency in the swedish factory presented itself at Saabs latest board-meeting last tuesday when Carl Peter Forster reported on the status.
  Håkan Danielsson, the chairman of the union Swedish Engineers says: We had requested a presentation of which og the two factories that were the most cost-efficient as per manufacturing cost per vehicle and the Trollhättan factory turned out to be the one.
  The cost per manufactured 9-5 at Trollhättan is about 20 000 SEK (swedish kronor) which turned out to be approximately 2000 SEK less than the Russelsheim factory (Approx 20%).
  This means that the original desicion to move the production of the new 9-5 from Sweden to Germany is being questioned.
  ” It is obvious that GM´s leaders in Europe first will protect the german interests as well as german jobs. One reason is probably fear of the german unions”, Håkan Danielsson says, who participated at the GM board-meeting.
  “It was never an option at the meeting to change the desicion of manufacturing the NG 9-5 in Germany, on the contrary it was discussed to further move jobs to Russelsheim” Danielsson says.
  Now they are speaking of design workers to move their jobs away from Trollhättan.
  “For example designing of roof-boxes (for skiis), bike-holders and other optionals that we always have been good at in Trollhättan is being moved even though we are more cost-efficient.” says Danielsson.
  One reason for Saabs efficiency, is the billion-class investments that has been made in the factory. Bodywork, painting, steelpresses and assembly departments are completely new with state of the art equipment and facilities. Manufacturing has been improved multiple times and the salory-costs is much lower than in Germany.
  “For engineers and other white-collar workers the salories can be up to 40% lower in Trollhättan compared to Russelsheim and for the blue-collar workers the difference is approximately up to 50% lower at Trollhättan.” Danielsson says.
  He tells us that more then few of the engineers makes approximately 3000 euros per month while the German engineers is beeing paid between 5-6000 euros.
  The calculation of costs does not include logistics where Russelsheim is doing better, “but according to our calculations we still are cheaper then the germans. Especially in Saabs big markets as Sweden, the US, UK we are better of then Russelsheim due to the fact that we are close to a major harbour”. (Gothenburg).

• 21 Grumpy // Dec 15, 2008 at 8:18 pm

  Franz is a politician and he will say what ever is needed to get himself to the top of whatever he is climbing. It is disappointing however to see the complete lack of solidarity with his “friends” in Sweden. As soon as it suits him he wants rid of them.

  Not that I am a unionist but I am sure the employers of the world are happy to see such behaviour among the union representatives and leaders. Divide and conquer anyone?

• 22 Johan // Dec 15, 2008 at 8:37 pm

  Both 9-5 and 9-4X are very important models for Saab, and that the 9-4X will be made in North America is especially important. Yes, the SUV market is declining, but the 9-4X is a CUV and that market has a much better health, and the last time I read about it, that market was still increasing.

  Saab or Opel for that matter doesn’t make engines anymore. Engine development is handled by GM Powertrain, often with the help of consultants as Lotus Engineering, Ricardo and AVL to mention a few. Then all brands within GM pays a certain amount of money to GM Powertrain for these engines. This means that GM have been able to significantly reduce the number of base engines for all their brands, which of course means significant cost reductions and also a chance for Saab to become profitable.

  Saabs engine factory was sold to Scania and they have no interrest to supply Saab with engines (they make common rail injection systems in the factory), nor do Saab have any engine design which they could use. To invest in the old H engine is hardly an option given new demands on fuel consumption, low weight and emissions. Saab couldnt afford a new engine design anyway.

  The Trollhättan plant is set up for Delta II production, so to move the 9-5 there would be unlikely.

  Saab is also very integrated in GM. Trollhättan is simply one of GM’s three ‘Global Engineering Centers’ in Europe, and they don’t develop any Saab models on their own. Instead they handle certain aspects of the development, and development of other brands within GM can also be done at Trollhättan. So any new buyer would be required to make a lot of investments in order to be able to make new non-GM models. I doubt that anyone really is interrested in this at the moment, and GM would most likely have to keep Saab even if they want it or not. If GM’s financial situation gets worse, they could sell GM Europe, Saab included. As a part of GM Europe with development centers in Russelheim, Milbrook and Trollhättan they have the capabilities to develop, manufacture and distribute their own models.

  Obviously this union guy Franz wants to make sure that his guys in Germany have work to do for the years that come, but he doesn’t want to take the risk in investing in future models from Saab, he just want to build them. I would say, Franz wants to eat his cake and still have it.

• 23 swade // Dec 15, 2008 at 8:58 pm

  Thanks for the perspective, Johan, but couldn’t they set up for the 9-3 and 9-5 next year? They currently build on two architectures there now with the 9-5 and 9-3. It just takes some time to change the setup when they’re switching from one to another.

  I know THN is due to tool up for Delta, but that hasn’t happened yet.

  Most likely this is some sort of positioning move so that Saab can be seen as a more profit-capable entity based on its own models – if it needs to be presented that way for someone in the near future.

• 24 ctm // Dec 15, 2008 at 9:07 pm

  Swade,

  You have been inside the factory. How many production lines can they have operating at the same time, building cars on different platforms?

• 25 swade // Dec 15, 2008 at 9:13 pm

  ctm,

  I’m going from an 18 month old memory now and it was my first time in a car factory, but I was under the impression that they were both built on the same line. They’ll do 9-3s for a while and then switch tools etc if need be to do 9-5s.

  As I said, that’s from memory, though. Will have to go back and look at my own tour to see if there’s anything directly to that effect.

• 26 gordon // Dec 16, 2008 at 12:13 am

  When I was at the factory about five years ago, the 9-5 and the 9-3 were on two different lines that at the final assembly stage ran side by side. The guide was very clear that the 9-5 line had the better workers and there was no overlap.