A very quick snippet to put before you an editorial in the Detroit Free Press that agrees with me — Saab isn’t going to leave the GM nest anytime soon.
Mr. Mark Phelan of the Detroit Free Press
No, not Chrysler: This time we’re talking about Saab and Volvo. It’s possible the register will ring up “no sale” when General Motors Corp. and Ford Motor Co. are done evaluating their Swedish brands, and that might be best for all concerned.
If nobody buys, it won’t be because Saab and Volvo are irretrievable brands, but because there’s no money out there and every automaker on Earth has its hands full as the global economy totters.
He puts his confidence in the lack of financing available for a deal like this, but I’m more apt to agree with his secondary points:
Ford has certainly been well served by Volvo. The brand has made money over the years, though not consistently enough.
Saab has never made a dime for GM, but it has contributed to the automaker. It’s been a test bed for alternative-fuel technology with ethanol-burning cars that account for a huge chunk of its sales in Sweden.
Both brands — if run properly — also attract customers who wouldn’t enter a Ford, Lincoln, Chevrolet or Cadillac dealership. They have loyal owners around the world and appeal to a well-educated, affluent demographic. While GM and Ford will entertain whatever offers come over the transom, they continue to work on some intriguing upcoming models for Volvo and Saab.
“If run properly”. Sounds as if he’s been reading TS!!
I agree with Mr. Phelan. Now let’s see the 9-5!
I can’t stand this much longer… The new 9-5 exists. It sits in building in Sweden and probably Germany, with real people working on it every day. Why on earth are there no pictures of it?!?
I agree with Mr. Phelan. As I’ve already written in my comment to “Only six car companies …” I don’t see anyone who would want to buy Saab as a whole in the car industry today – nor do I see anyone who might do that tomorrow.
I think, selling Saab can in no way earn GM more money than Saab is worth inside GM: as a think-tank and as a premium brand attractive to customers who’d never imagine buying an Opel, a Chevy or a Buick.
GM has been losing money through Saab – but I don’t think it ever really hurt.
So I think GM will go on running Saab themselves – in a world that won’t be the same as it was before last Thursday.
Saab fits in very well in that new paradigm.
Yours
saabista63
That’s the main problem, GM can’t run anything “properly” which is is why it is where it is now. It’s certainly never run Saab properly. Has it ever really tried? The longer Saab remains fully attached to GM, the more damage that is done to it.
Markac – correction, GM has run Cadillac very well in the past 7 years. Despite their delusional hopes of expanding the brand in Europe. Now if they can put in even half the effort they did with Cadillac into Saab …….
OK, no sale/closure. SHOW US THE ****** NEW 9-5!!
Please.
Ooops I forgot, great decision on the part of both GM and Ford.
There is a brilliant piece in the European Edition of Fortune No. 22 titled “GM – Death of an American Dream.” – How General Motors got it so wrong for so long. A corporate memoir by Alex Taylor III.
He posits the following on page 67, “At the turn of the millenium GM was a stronger company than it had been ten years earlier, but it was still clumsy. Initially slow to capitalize on the SUV boom, it was churning out Tahoes and Suburbans at enormous profit. But now the market was turning to lighter, more fuel-efficeint SUV’s called crossovers, and once gain GM lagged the industry followers.
Wagoner’s biggest flaw may be that he has been too forgiving. Here is a company that lost more than $72 billion in the past four years, and yet you can count on one hand the number of executives who have been reassigned or lost their job.”
In the Newsweek edition of December 08, 2008, on page 60 Al Gore is quoted to have answered the question “Would you baile out the automakers?” as “When I was vice president, I initiated a program called the Partnership for a New Generation of Vehicles. The federal government invested over a billion dollars in partnership with the Big Three to focus on the accelerated development of advanced high-efficiency vehicles. But as soon as they felt they were off the hook at the end of 2000, they pulled the plug and walked away.” And to the question “How would you do it? Would you provide loans but force the automakers to raise fuel efficiency or speed up hybrid production?” as follows: “I think the whole industry should be transformed. It’s really tragic that General Motors, for example, allowed Toyota to get a seven-year head start on the hybrid drivetrain in the Prius. I personally believe that the U.S. auto fleet should make a transition as quickly as possible toward plug-in hybrid electric vehicles. ”
What is going to be different this time around? Will they pull the plug once the money has been guaranteed and continue to raide the R & D backbone of Saab in terms of right-sizing and continue starving it of new product development and aging platforms of 10 years plus? Will someone eventually get fired for possessing no brains or will they hire someone like Carlos Ghosn of Nissan who took the near-mortally wounded Japanese automaker Nissan from the brink of ruin to profitability in just two years? Ghosn remade Nissan by defying the business and cultural taboos that in the past stifled the economy in Japan; cut costs and smashed Nisssan’s Keiretsu relationships and revived the company’s design innovation, quality standards and the product. And the end result can be seen anywhere around the world.
Something similar should happen at GM once the bail-out has been secured.
I read the Fortune story as well Danni and agree that its well-written. Taylor certainly knows GM and Wagoner particularly. I read it as much as a Wagoner story as a GM given the amount of space it dedicates to personal anecdotes and character references. Too much a gentleman is the overiding sentiment as you point out – given the scale of the financial retreat that has occured.
In my view Taylor commits a similar offence to the GM execs that he chastises – he writes the whole thing without actually mentioning what those leaner, greener vehicles ( compared to Suburbans & Tahoes) might be. Is it that hard for the American press to type the letters S-A-A-B ?
Many of us have opined here that GM doesn’t “get”Saab. Perhaps its more a case of a totally different agenda than simple, old -fashioned sales and organic growth that seems to obvious from the outside? More in line with the more cynical opinions about technology stripping?
PT: must be the lost generation of first-time car buyers since 1990 who don’t know Saab. GM has been a disaster for Saab. But not too late.
I’m very interested in the status of several projects Saab involved in that we haven’t heard anything from since the announcement they were involved in it:
1. Swedish hybrid consortium. Remember Saab teamed-up with Volvo and the Swedish gov’t to work on hybrid technology? I haven’t heard anything since the original announcement. I found this an interesting partnership as Sweden is generally cold and battery technology is very finnicky in cold weather. That’s why the GM EV-1 was only leased in California, Arizona, and Florida. So a hybrid technology created in Sweden would likely be more robust in cold climates than one created in the States, I would think. Another interesting thing is how the companies would share any technology gleaned from their research, with the funding coming from the Swedish taxpayer, won’t they be a bit irritated that American parents Ford and GM would be the beneficiaries?
2. Dual-clutch transmissions. General Motors opted to task Saab with creating General Motors’ own indigenous DCT rather than buy one ready-made from Getrag or Borg-Warner like so many other automakers are doing. But even those other automakers are working on their own indigenous designs while buying from third party vendors. GM can really use a next-gen gearbox. I was reading a review of the Saturn Astra (made in Belgium, so it’s just a rebadged Opel) and there were complaints about its manual transmission. I also noted the auto transmission offered is only a 4-speed. In 2008?!?!? A 4-speed auto box? Surely you jest. A dual-clutch transmission in the Astra would likely help it get better fuel economy numbers than it gets (it’s bested by its competition and its 24/32 mpg fuel economy is not very impressive for a small car whose main draw should be the fuel economy). Back to Saab: a dual clutch transmission will better help it compete in the mpg game with its competition (BMW, AUDI, ovloV) which already offers dual-clutch boxes. It’s only been a year since it was announced Saab was hiring 100 new engineers for the DCT program in Trollhattan, but I’d be interested to learn what progress they’ve made and when they target product to start rolling-off the assembly lines.
Danni: Great comment.
PT: I agree with the ignorance of the press in general about Saab. As has been said, the opposite of love isn’t hate, it’s indifference. I think that the press is totally indifferent about Saab.
Grip: Good questions. I’d like to know the answers.
Hey all,
Clarkson wrote in “The Weird World of Saab Man”, his great review of the 1st gen 9-5, regarding Saabs history of marketing campaigns involving jet-fighters, safety and rallying ,” the result of all this haphazard marketing is that, today, the cars are almost completely image-free.
He goes on ,”And that, I suspect is where there appeal lies. They are sold to people who don’t wish to use their cars as a style statement…”
Eggs: So to, the opposite of style isn’t ugliness, just blandness. Saabs have been bland for a very long time, like a milkshake with a tiny hint of intriguing flavouring, the afterstaste non-existent.
That would have been written back in ’97. Things haven’t changed and we are still seeing the pay-off for that.
Gripen 1985,
Do not forget the 1,4 liter “Right-sized” engine Saab has developed. An engine GM should use in fuel efficient cars worldwide.
And on the marketing issue of the new 9-5. Show it for the world this is what Saab people needs to see now the real future. Not just yet another concept vehicle. Yes the sales of the 9-5 OG Griffins will slow down but for cry out not loud the car is 11 years old.
karen, I dont think GM has been a disaster for Saab at all. Saab wouldnt be around today if it werent for them way back in 1990.
We have the new 9-5 to look forward too which I expect will be so achingly gorgeous that it could beat the “now THAT is f****** stunning!!!” that came out of my mouth when we saw the 9-3SS back in 2002. I am keeping my fingers crossed that GM will stop trying to jam Caddies down the throats of Europeans and realise that Saab is their truly global premium car.
Swedish car magazine Teknikens Värld interviews Jan-Åke Jonsson SAAB CEO
Here is my quick resume into english.
Saab har en egen plan SAAB has their own plan
För Saabs vd Jan-Åke Jonsson ligger en försäljning av Saab långt ned på listan av alternativ. Jonsson jobbar i stället på en egen lösning på de finansiella problemen. Externa finansiärer ska satsa i konkreta utvecklingsprojekt i utbyte mot ägarandelar.
Saab sale is way down in the list of options. He is working on his very own solution. External financiers will act in development projects in exchange for shares in the company
Saab Automobiles öde är minst sagt ovisst. General Motors famlar till synes i mörkret efter en lösning på de egna finansiella problemen och har egentligen inte tid att tänka på Saab. Kanske är det detta Saabs svenske vd Jan-Åke Jonsson insett. Jonsson arbetar nämligen på en egen lösning som ska rädda Saab. Jonsson arbetar för fullt med att leta efter externa finansiärer som kan gå in och bekosta specifika utvecklingsprojekt i utbyte mot ägarandelar i företaget. Han letar främst efter svenska finansiärer, till exempel underleverantörer eller andra intressenter inom fordonsindustrin. Det främsta syftet är att snabba på utvecklingen av nya modeller.
He is primarily looking for swedish companies or financiers. Main reason is to keep up development of new models.
Jonsson säger till Automotive News Europe att en försäljning ligger långt ned på listan av alternativ, Saab är helt enkelt för integrerat i GM:s organisation och produktlinje för att det ska vara möjligt. Att lägga ned Saab är inte heller ett alternativ enligt Jonsson. Han säger att 2009 blir ett stort år för Saab då man planerar att lansera flera nya modeller, bland annat den livsviktiga nya 9-5. Jonsson tror att de nya modellerna, i kombination med Saabs starka varumärke, kommer att placera Saab i en konkurrenskraftig position för framtiden.
Sale of SAAB is complicated since it is integrated in GM organization and productline. Closing down is not an alternative. 2009 is going to be a great year for SAAB with new models. SAAB brand is strong and SAAB will have a good position in the future.
GM has NOT run Cadillac properly or anything else in it’s line-up! All the time and resources wasted on the development of things like the Escalade and CTS-V have resulted in this current situation. If they were in any way a success, GM wouldn’t be on their hands and knees begging for cash from the US congress and 90 days away from total annihilation. GM doesn’t have much of a think tank over there for sure. My stomach sinks when I see lines like “Saab isn’t going to leave the GM nest anytime soon”. Saab deserves a better corporate parent and I’m hoping for it against all odds!!!!!!
Yes, show us the new 9-5, already! Dammit! Skin to win!
@Danni: just saw that Fortune magazine issue on the newsstand today here in the U.S.
I’m still waiting for those great whiz-bang hydrogen fuel cell cars GM was whitewashing… er, promising us a few years ago. How’s that coming along now?
@Jörgen Trued: I was under the impression that the 1.4 liter “rightsized” engine Saab was going to use was simply an Opel Ecotec engine. I wasn’t aware that Saab developed it themselves.
According to the swedish site E24,Swedish Gov is working on a support loan to Saab & Volvo.
Also in the article ,Saab,Scania,Volvo PV togheter with the swedish state are planing to form a common corporation for R&D development
http://www.e24.se/branscher/verkstadsindustri/artikel_923865.e24
TTAC has published a confirmed note saying Ford is negotiating with Chinese companies about a sale of Volvo.
Yours
saabista63
The 1.4 litre turbo engine, found in the 9-X BioHybrid prototype for instance, is based on GM’s family 0 engine originally designed by Opel and introduced in the mid nineties in three and four cylinder versions. This latest version has been revised, it has naturally been reinforced to handle higher stress levels, equipped with turbocharging and direct injection to mention a few things. Exactly who have done what isn’t clear but GM Powertrain Sweden is generally resposible in areas relating to turbocharging and engine control while I would think that they guys in Germany have probably have responsibility for the direct injection system and general design aspects.
By the way, GM is currently one of the companies that spend the most money on R&D, behind only Toyota. Despite this, the average fleet fuel consumption of GM in the US is actually lower than that of Toyota, yet, most poeple think that Toyota makes the most fuel efficient cars. So, even though many people like to complain on GM of having a too low fuel efficiency, they are in reality quite good, at least on the US market.
As for the mentioning of a joint R&D center in Sweden, a similar proposal have been mentioned by the U.S. Congress for the U.S.
There have also been an article about Saab and the swedish car industry in the swedish newspaper Expressen written by former Saab engine guru Per Gillbrand. If someone that knows swedish feels they have some time over…
“Saab has never made a dime for GM….”
Can we blame GM for this? For not letting Saab unleash the most butt-kickin’
turbocharged Euro cars on this planet?