Regular TS visitor and commenter, David W, recently attended a promotional event for the new Audi A4. The event gave attendees the chance to drive not only the new A4 Quattro, but three comparative cars in the Mercedes Benz C300 4matic, the BMW 328 ix, and the Lexus IS250 AWD.
Naturally, David took the event as an opportunity to evaluate his own Saab 9-3 2.0T against the competition.
These are his thoughts but the images are just generic web images of the cars, except for the last image, which is David’s actual car.
My thanks go to David for taking the time to put these thoughts down on ‘paper’ and sending them in to share here at TS.
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I recently had the pleasure of attending the Audi A4 Experience. It was an event that showcased the new A4 against it’s “competition” consisting of the M-B C300 4matic, BMW 328 ix, and the Lexus IS250 AWD. They were all comparably equipped, none had a sport package, all had factory wheels and tires inflated to factory recommended pressure, all were fully loaded and ran side by side through an autocross track.
I will start this off with my frame of reference, my 2007 SAAB 60th Anniversary Convertible. While I could not take it on the track, after 24,000 miles in it and another 45,000 in my old 2003 9-3 SS, I have a pretty good idea of how they would have reacted.
First off, the Mercedes-Benz C300 4matic.
When they first came out, I was not a fan of the exterior. After some time and seeing many on the road, I have grown to respect it’s aggressive front and sweeping side lines. It looks better each time I see it. The interior however, was another matter.
The car was silver with a black interior. The seats were very hard and somewhat flat. The dashboard was atrocious. It looked like a big, black blob of rubber with very little style. It really made me appreciate the SAAB. While maybe not as sturdy as the Benz, it is far more aesthetically pleasing and easy to use.
On the track, the power was good, but the handling was not up to par. The steering was not communicative, and the car leaned a lot in the sharp corners. I have experienced quick lane changes and sharp corners in my SAAB, but never felt either of them lean that much. I came away less impressed with the C300 than when I started, as did another participant who referred to it as an expensive Buick.
Second came the BMW 328 ix.
I have not been a BMW fan since their disastrous ownership of MG-Rover, as my heart also belongs to my 1972 MGB. But this had nothing to do with how much fun it would be to test one on the track. After all, it is supposed to be the Ultimate Driving Machine, right?
The BMW’s were silver with black interior as well. The exteriors are very BMW, I think the 3 Series are their best designs. The interior was much better than the Benz, with more comfortable seats and a nicer looking dash. However, it still did not look as good as my SAAB’s. I am really spoiled with the 2 tone anniversary sport seats and door trims. The SAAB’s climate controls are far and away much easier to use. It took me way too long to turn off the BMW’s climate control as there was no off button to be found. I ended up turning the fan all the way down before it went off.
On the track, the BMW handled better than the Benz, but still was not as entertaining as I expected. The steering was my biggest disappointment. It felt thick and numb. There was no feel, no feedback, no anything that I was expecting. After this, I wondered what makes automotive journalist wet themselves every time they drive one? Must be the M’s???
Next came the Lexus IS250 AWD.
I really like the way this car looks inside and out. Ours were dark gray with light gray and black interior. The seats were very comfy (and air conditioned a-la the old Saab 9-5) and the dash looked great with a mix of black and gray plastics with silver and wood trim. Good so far.
On the track, it’s 204 hp 2.5 lt. 6 cylinder was no match for the AWD hardware. It felt hopelessly underpowered. The steering had more feel to me than the BMW’s, but was not quick enough. It took the most turns of the wheel to get around the track than the others, and when it did, it leaned the most and the seats had no grip. Again, I came away less impressed than when I started.
Last, was the Audi A4 Quattro.
Out of all the cars there, the Audi really shined (it should since this was an Audi event, right?) These were red with a tan interior. While the exterior is more evolution than revolution, it looked good (I love the LED light pipes on the headlights, like the 9-3… )
The interior would have benefited from a different color as the light tan mixed with the light wood on the dash was not to my liking. Darker wood or more brushed aluminum would have been better. They do have great fit and finish.
On the track, Audi’s new drive select system was pretty sweet. It gave the sharpest handling, the quickest, most precise steering and impressive power and acceleration. Of the 4 cars there, it would be the most able to tempt me out of a SAAB.
But there is a catch, a really BIG catch…the price.
$48,000 USD for this A4. Not an S4. Not an A4 S-line. Not an A4 Cabriolet. But a fully loaded A4 sedan. It did have the sweet 3.2 lt. 6 cylinder with 268 hp (the most there.) But I could not get past $48,000 for this A4.
Audi was very wise not to have a Turbo X or even the 2009 9-3 Aero there, as it would not have worked out in Audi’s favor. They made a point about how the others there did not utilize AWD for their more powerful models. They neglected to mention that SAAB (and Subaru) did. While 265 hp and 243 lbs. ft. of torque sound nice, 280 hp and 295 lbs. ft. of torque for the SAAB sound better while costing less!
Getting back into my SAAB, I realized again what a great car these are.
It never feels underpowered, even after this experience. It handled and steered just as sweetly as before and has the BEST SEATS IN THE BUSINESS! Bottom line, I was never happier to be back in my 2.0T with the top down and a smile on my face! Thank you Audi for a great experience, but I will be sticking with SAAB.
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It’s weird how Audi didn’t use a 335xi for the AWD model because BMW’s website lists a 335xi as a possible combination, and the two would be the closest in price. (the 335xi starts at around $41K MSRP)
Also I’m surprised Audi didn’t throw in a G35x for comparison as well, especially given that Audi included the IS250 AWD; I would think the G35x would be far closer to an A4 3.2L performance wise than an IS250, which is more like the 2.0T.
The omission of the 9-3 XWD model is also strange. I think Audi just wanted to show the A4 in a favorable light and stacked the deck with base engine AWD models from the other companies while sending in their top of the line model; a fairer comparison would have involved a 2.0T A4 instead of the 3.2L one. (Either that or Audi should have picked a different group of cars for a truly fair experience)
Yeah, I hate to say it but that competition was hopelessly stacked in Audi’s favor. No 335XI? no G37X? only an IS250? Just the C300? You’ve got to be kidding me. Of course the $48k Audi shone as the best, because they basically took a machine gun to their knife fight.
Not that I’m saying that the Saab is a better buy, I just got off a Swedish car day experience where my Volvo-owning friends (the kind of new blood that Saab desperately needs right now, who also love my 9-5 Aero and my friend’s Viggen) panned the Turbo X on display for having a very un-Saablike boring interior and an exterior that looks like it’s trying way too hard on top of being too expensive for what it is (which is probably why Charles River Saab had $10,500 on the windshield). If Audi wanted to really show off the superiority of the A4, they should have shown a $33k 2.0T Quattro alongside that C300, 328i, G35, etc. That car would have had the same exterior and interior but none of the “you gotta be kidding me” price that your $48k was saddled with. The A4 doesn’t need heavily skewed comparisons like that to prove it’s the best car in it’s class.
Oh and the reasons why the BMW felt so gutless were A: Because it was the cheap one with the small engine and no self-respecting car person would buy a new 3-series that wasn’t a 335i or d, and B: Because it was an AWD BMW and everyone knows that AWD BMWs are the biggest poser mobiles since slushbox 911′s and M3 convertibles, BMW’s chassis engineering team included.
I love the color of your Saab, what do they call that blue?
David: Thank you for that well done review. I have an 04 Saab convertible. I must say, from time to time Audi sends me a mailer and every time I take a look, I just keep going back to the great things I like about my Saab. DO YOU REALY NEED AWD? Audi’s interior’s have been done well for years. They do spend money where you can see it. Perception, they call it. Reliability? not so sure.
The Saab convertible is far superior in every way. Saab has a classy, timeless, efficient convertible that still is hard to beat.
I agree that Audi should have shown the base $33K A4 2.0T and compared it to all of these cars; maybe then the A4 could play up its value card and claim to be a bargain.. (although the base A4 doesn’t have power seats; you have to step up to the $36K 2.0T to get power seats I think)
I think Audi should have taken the sportiest models from each of these manufacturers (excluding M and AMG) and then show off the advantages of Quattro over the RWD models from BMW, Mercedes, Infiniti, and Lexus.
The only way the competition could have been more stacked was if Audi included an Acura TL for comparison purposes…
Seems like I found a match in David W as even the way he wrote his impressions match some of my own thoughts. The best is the summary of the B + M as these are the most over hyped Teutonic cars (I wonder what Richo may come back with ???). There has been a lot of bagging too on the price differentials and clearly, do your homework before jumping to conclusions as Saab offers the best value for money. List prices mean only a reference and check what’s included in any list price. Where in the US are you based David ???
Have you tried to compare fuel consumpion? I don’t really like that of SAAB (other than that SAAB is the best car, no doubt). Here’s some data (sedan, manual):
Car – Engine | HP | Torque | Comsumption Litres/100km (City/Highway/Combined)
BMW 330xi – 3.0 | 272 | 320 | 11.0/6.2/8.0
Audi A4 3.2 quattro – 3.2 | 262 | 330 | 13.5/6.7/9.2
Merc C 350 4MATIC – 3.5 | 272 | 350 | 14.5/7.5/10.0
SAAB 9-3 Aero XWD – 2.8 | 280 | 400 | 15.9/7.5/10.6
In terms of consumption the winner here – BMW? Of course, SAAB has better torque and slightly more horsepower but saving 5 litres of petrol per 100 km driving around the city looks very tempting. What do you think?
Junk all around. All four of those cars have ridiculous styling (in my opinion), and none of them are at all interesting to me.
Good write up, nice to hear that BMW isn’t the be-all end-all handling giant that they say they are.
ad basas:
Some fuel for your thoughs, here some real-world user fuel consumption logs. Use your own statistical knowledge to get conclusions
SAAB 9-3 (only 2 turboX so Aeros included) here
Some 330xi BMWs here
And some A4 quattros as last
MJ – Thank you. This is the 60th Anniversary Edition Ice Blue. It really is a great color.
Joe Lobo – I am in Dallas, Texas.
Interesting review. Audi indeed stacked the deck in its favor, not just by the models chosen, but in how they were equipped. This is especially true of the BMW. They only achieve their legendary handling magic with the Sport Package. Otherwise, they can feel heavy and sluggish. I expect this would be exacerbated with AWD, which adds weight and increases the ride height. With RWD and the Sport Package, believe me, the BMW would have seemed quite different.
I’ve driven a friend’s 2002 330i with Sport Package, and dynamically it’s nearly perfect. I love my 9-5 Aero, but the BMW is in another league. That BMW’s owner has driven others without the Sport Package, and calls them “pigs.” And I’ve driven a 540i without the Sport Package on back roads, and it may as well have been a Buick. I was shocked, and couldn’t wait to get back into my Saab. The 540i’s owner subsequently bought a 9-5 Aero, and, not surprisingly, much preferred the Saab as a driver’s car. Without the Sport Package, BMW’s are luxury cars, plain and simple.
I’m less familiar with the Mercedes C300, but I bet Audi didn’t select the “Sport” variant, for the same reason.
The 2.0TFSI in the 09 Audi A4 is a pretty decent engine. Sure it only has 211HP but it also has 258 lbs-ft of torque from 1500-4200rpm. The 3.2L only has 243lbs-ft of torque from 3000-5000rpm. I’ve read reviews were people prefer the 2.0TFSI over the 3.2L. I am not sure what the outcome would be if they had the 2.0TFSI there (aside from those negative reviews from people who solely look at HP).
The new Audi A4 definitly is a nice vehicle and would be my choice out of all those vehicles there. I would even take a A4 2.0TFSI over the 9-3 2.0T based on features and roominess of the vehicle. I’ve been looking at an A4 recently and the issues that are holding me back from buying one is the location of the Dealership(across town) and the triptronic transmission.
If you are thinking of an Audi, don’t buy it from a dealer across town. You will be going there often and you will be paying them almost as often. Maintenance is not included in the price. Everyone I know (and that is quite a few since Quattro is attractive in Colorado) who has an Audi, 4, 6, or 8 complains about the thing breaking down all the time. Of course, if you lease the 8, they will pick it up for you. Since you can’t trust it, just go all the way and get a used Porsche.
Gordon – I recently test drove a 2009 911 Carrera S with the PDK transmission. I would love to go that route but it’s really not a pratical car for a family and it would only be a summer car.
My choices of premium cars that I can purchase are limited by my height (6’5″) and it’s basically between the A4 and the G37x sedan. I know quite a few people with Audi’s and they have had no issues with them so far. If I do run into any issues with the Audi, I can assure you that it wouldn’t be as bad as my previous 2 cars I’ve owned (one of them required a new engine at 18K).
BMW w/out sport package is a waste of time. I’ve had loaners that were stripped (base 328i with steptronic) and you might as well buy an Accord. The same 328i with sports package and 6-speed can be a hoot.
I do like Audis and they are very good looking cars, in and out. If they could get their reliability numbers up to at least average they would be a possibility for a new vehicle in 2012 or thereabouts.
I’ll be curious to see how GM/SAAB pull of the 9-5 redesign.
Just a quick note on the cars. I attended the Audi event as well in Dallas. Not that I’m an expert with the other cars they had at the track, but the speaker talked a bit about why they chose the cars they did. He said that at the time of doing the tests between the cars more powerful all wheel drive cars where not available. The test was specific towards all wheel drive, but no mention of SAAB during the event. I believe he also mentioned that they picked the BMW, Mercedes, and Lexus as they where the most direct competition in regards to number of cars sold.
Lots of headroom, front and rear, in the 9-5 . . . even with the (standard in North America) sunroof.
Unfortunately, 38.7″ headroom (9-5 combi) and 37.1″ headroom (9-5 sedan) is not enough headroom for me. I wish manufacturer’s offered different seat brackets for tall people (a lot of the seats can be 0.5-1″ lower).
One of the things that impressed me when I was looking at used cars (I decided on the 9-5) was
quality of the interior and exterior of the Audis. Words like astonishing, impeccable come to mind.
I was looking at used 2003, 2004 A4s comparing them to a used 9-3s (2003-2005) and 9-5s of the
same year range.
If one ignores performance, reliablilty etc (unkown to me for Audi) and based their decision totally on
perceived durablility and quality of the exterior/interior then Audi must be the best in the industry without question. In short, I was comparing 9-3s with fading door handles and peeling interior pieces with A4s that were older and looked brand new.
I’d be really upset to buy a new TurboX and find the door handles all nasty several years later. Reliability and performance are only some aspects of a car that make up its total value.