Automotive News have written a major story on an issue that first surfaced a few days ago. Back then it was rumours about the Chevy Cruze compact car being delayed. Today’s story concerns quite a lot of GM’s coming models being delayed due to funding problems putting constraints on research and development.
General Motors is postponing nearly all of its spending on product development in 2009 and 2010 — a cost-cutting move that could delay the introduction of key vehicles such as the Chevrolet Cruze.
The automaker also is cutting spending on engineering, design and r&d, say sources familiar with GM’s plans. So far, nothing has been officially canceled, but nearly everything is delayed, the sources say.
“The 2009 stuff that’s too late to cancel is coming out, then everything else gets pushed out anywhere between three months and up to a year,” said one of the sources. “It’s not just capital budget; it’s also engineering, design … everything that would cause money to flow out in 2009.”
There’s nothing about Saab mentioned directly in the Automotive News story, but then we have this, which came through TS earlier today…..
Sorry to say this but on a meeting today i got the information that 9-5 is delayed. The number of try-out builds are also reduced but i dont know if or how that affect the geneva show.
Guys, this circus is going nowhere but down. I also got some other ‘what-the-heck-is-going-on-here” info…but i guess the 9-5 is enough of bad news for you..
…..and I can confirm from the information I’ve seen associated with that comment that the commenter knows what he’s talking about.
I imagine that Saab will still show the car in Geneva, though it seems that in this current climate, nothing is certain. What seems highly likely is that the 2010 Saab 9-5 won’t come out for sale late in 2009, as we assumed.
GM are going to proceed with vehicles that are near production already. Vehicles such as the Buick Lacrosse, Chevy Traverse and Cadillac CTS wagon will go ahead. Similarly, they’ll proceed with the Chevrolet Volt as that vehicle is seen as essential for the near-term future of the company.
Saab? Not so essential from the company point of view.
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For those who haven’t been following it themselves, the GM/Chrysler merger story is still well and truly alive. In fact, multiple sources are now saying that the deal is all but done, with GM lobbying the US government for funds to complete the deal. The government cash would provide an equity stake in the merged company that I’m guessing the government would able to sell down the track.
This means that GM would have a whole lot of brand/people/dealer cutting to do. Where that would leave Saab, I don’t know.
Would GM use it as an opportunity?
I know they’ve committed to Saab etc etc, but that was before their entire world was turned on its head. I’ve got a feeling that the GM we’ll all be observing in 12 months from now will be quite different to what we’re seeing today.
I’m not trying to scaremonger here, but I am pretty sure that September-to-December 2008 is going to be seen as a defining time for GM, should they survive the next 12 months.
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Aaargh!!!
GM is such a Club of stupid Idiots. If the 9-5 doesn’t come in late 2009 i think you can forget the brand SAAB.
Either way there will be no more dealers to sell the cars in 2010. 2009 is already too late for the dealerships, because they are loosing customers every day to brands with innovative cars.
I think that can be the last deathblow for our all beloved brand!
F*ck that !
I sincerely start to hope that GM would sell Saab to e.g. Renault-Nissan. That’s an alliance that doesn’t really have a (European) “premium” brand but does have the resources and technologie for a brand like Saab.
Maybe that would be a good idea :GM and Chrysler fuse and will, of course, have to cut in their number of brands. Exit Jeep en Saab.
For Jeep it could mean a return to Renault, Saab on the other hand could be the European premium brand for Renault/Nissan.
That would make that Renault/Nissan would have an American brand, 2 japanese brands (one mainstream and one premium brand) and three european brands (one premium, one mainstream and one budget brand).
I think that’s something that Saab would benefit from.
I forgot the korean budget (?) brand “samsung” of the renault/nissan alliance but that doesn’t change much to the point of my post.
I’ve been thinking about the 9-5 a lot lately (as probably all of you).
First we get to see the first (interior) pictures of the new saab 9-5 which got us all winded up and enthousiastic.
As many mentionned, it was a bit weird that the lights inside the 9-5 mule were lighted. Normally the lights are only lighted when the ignition is on, i.e. that someone is in the car.
So one can assume that the spyshots were taken with permission of (or by ?) GM to generate some publicity for the “soon-to-come” 9-5 and let potential buyers know that the 9-5 will soon arrive in the show rooms.
A week or so later, we get the news that the 9-5 is postponed.
My guess is that GM deliberately showed the spypics before the anouncement of the delay in the hope to convince potential buyers to wait a little more as the 9-5 is on it’s way.
Here’s a thought for you guys at GM : maybe getting a car actually in production could convince potential buyers ?
To make money you have to spend money.
If your original plan is to build the 9-5 from MY2010 on, you are this far in your process that delaying it will only cost you extra money without a good return later.
So I think it is a stupid idea (you probably all think that way).
The only reason I can think of is that there is absolutely no money available to spend.
In other words: the cashbox is empty. GM is no longer solvent.
If the 9-5 (wich is almost ready) is postponed, what about the 9-3 or 9-1 ?
I mean, do we have too wait till 2013, 2015 to buy a 9-3 wich is based on a plattform designt on 2005-2007 ?
I wouldn’t wonde if Mr. Forster is now seeking a new Job !!
It’s sad to see another great brand desapear.
I sincerely hope Renault-Nissan buys Saab. And NOT Volvo(instead), if that is a possibility!! Nissan is my second favorite marque. To me, Nissan is sort of like the Saab of Japan. In some ways at least.. they are different but functionally smart. I guess they’re a bit more mainstream and quite a bit bigger of a company, though. Think: Saab and Nissan developing AWD/XWD technologies together?? Nissan engine technology, which is already great with turbochargers, and Saab’s turbo expertise? Think about it..
COME ON CHAPTER 11!
If this is the state of things at GM, we all know it’s going to happen in the next couple months. At that point Saab can be unloaded to Renault/Nissan where Carlos Ghosn will turn it into the BMW-level brand it deserves to be. Even PSA would be a nice home for the brand at this point.
I still don’t think the GM-Chrysler merger is going through, I think it’s a scare tactic being used by both companies to lure individual government bailouts. There’s no way the US government would allow the creation of a Brisish Leyland-style GM-Chrysler hybrid and the massive factory closures and layoffs that would follow, especially once the liberal Obama administration rolls in. All GM and Chrysler need to do is stay alive until 1/20/09.
Here’s a thought that might be a better discussion on a new thread.
If Volvo and Saab merged, could they be self-sufficient and profitable in a few years? How great would that be to have one completely Swedish-based car company? Small company, few models, small overhead.
Then you’d just end up with “Swedish Leyland”, there’s no way the two companies could exist together as they are now today without a lineup that competes even more against itself than GM’s north american operations.
And GM NEVER understood the idea of “Spend money to make money”, a lack of re-investment in capital and product quality improvements since the 1970′s has been what’s done in almost every major american industrial firm that’s gone down since. It’s a chronic disease in this country, the fat cats in charge like Lutz, Wagoner, etc care only about their multi-million dollar salaries and generating short-term profits. When you’re competing against companies like Toyota, Honda, and others that barely pay their CEO’s a million a year and invest heavily in capital and product improvements with an eye towards long-term profitability, there’s just no way that the GM business model has a chance of getting you anywhere but insolvency.
Notice the relative lack of mention of Ford in all of these doom and gloom stories? They wisened up a few years ago and they’ve been the only American company that’s really focused on bring ALL of it’s product line up to parity with the Japanese, instead of the GM “let’s focus on a couple high-profile cars like the cruze and the volt and let the rest of our offerings suffer” model. Mark my words, Ford is going to be the only one of the three that comes out of this mess looking anything like it did before.
I wonder what ever happened to that 9-3X cross country thing. Delayed as well? That would buoy sales for almost no R&D.
The TurboX might be a great way to launch XWD in gear-head Detroit, but in Colorado and New England that 9-3X SportCombi thing is the way to conquest into new customers and attract attention to XWD. Just look at Volvo: garbage reliability, mean dealers, uncomfortable to drive, no feel. The S60R AWD 300hp is a national sales disaster and discontinued. The V70XC AWD, automatic 200hp (for about the same price) is a huge success for years. There are a lot of moms who would love to trade in their unreliable Volvo XC or Audio allroad for something nicer than a Subaru Outback, more frugal than a crossover.
SAAB needs this car this fall ready for the first snows. Forget regular XWD models, if they can’t make enough XWDs, just sell an Aero V6 XWD halo car and the X cross country SportCombi thing. All you need is a new front and rear bumper, side cladding, a big loud distinctive nameplate inside and out that lets others know it’s AWD and a lift kit. The only drivetrain necessary is the 2.0T with automatic. (Volvo also has nice Cross Country aluminum door sills).
The name is important. Volvo people don’t think they are getting a V70 wagon with a lift kit. Oh no, it is a totally different car. A cross country. Who want to say SportCombi anyway. We all know that it is a Station Wagon/Estate/Touring.
Oh cr@p!
surely as this cars nearly ready what would be the point in putting it back further than it already is? if this is true then this could be very bad news for the saab brand…
whats happening about the 9-4x is that getting delayed too? if delaying a saloon which could help saab bolster its profits and not delaying a mid size SUV which is going to sell in antidroves (patent pending
) then what logic do the people in general motors have??? none whatsoever????
Dick Grossman (original Nines editor/publisher and the author of his “Five Minutes of Hate” columns, usually against GM) would have to extend it to half an hour at least for the kinds of management idiocy that GM has been scoring of late. He would have gone apoplectic long before just at the very thought of GM running things at Trollhatten.
Watch for the “delay” to be extended to six months….then you’re pretty much ended any model year lead time for the 2010 9-5. Might as well cancel, then.
One question I have is whether any sort of bailout “deal” that Washington creates for GM/Chrysler will automatically exclude any help for their foreign subsidiaries? I’m not even sure how that can be separated out, but there would be little political support as it is for the bailout, let alone for some of the money to go to GM brands in Europe or Asia.
And the continued erosion of the dealer network in the US will just hasten the time when support for the marque will be below critical mass to serve any remaining customer base.
I would be OK with Renault-Nissan. I think what SAAB fans want is certainty. It would be silly to dissolve the brand when it has so much to offer. Give it to someone that can make it work. They will pay you some cash for it in the meantime. Given the dramatic jump in improvement that Nissan/Infiniti has seen since they merged with Renault, I would be OK with Renault. I think that they would like SAAB be SAAB.
Nothing would make me happier than to let SAAB be SAAB.
If (and we don’t know the whole story yet) it is delayed, it is even possible for Saab to continue build the current 9-5 one more year? Or have they already started to dismantle the whole process of parts suppliers and manufacturing and so on?
ctm, sadly it dosn’t matter, no-one is buying it anyway……If the new 9-4x is one of the models to have gotten through before the gate closed, at least there will be some new metal in the showrooms next year, and some ‘conquest sales’ from other marques. The 9-3XC I have a feeling we will never see – this car could have come out last year alongside the XWD and the fact that it didnt tells me it ain’t gonna. The 9-5 must must must come out without delay, this is the key credibility model for Saab, and in the background the replacement 9-3 needs to be aiming at no more than 2.5 model years away (but we know now it probably will be 4 to 5 years
).
Sad days ahead – I would see some synergy in the Nissan/Renault tie-up, woudl have no strong objection either to Indian or Chinese funding, providing the design and main construction remain in Europe. In reality, it is sadly more likley that if GM can’t find a buyer, it will all just fall in on itself like Rover did a few years ago.
Gordon, the 9-3x thing would have been a good idea (not a great) 4 years ago. Investing now in a model based on a platform that soon will be abandoned, is just wasting some more money. Too little too late for Saab. Saab needs a brand new model (not a new version of an old model) NOW.
Hmmm, “wasting some more money”, that sounds like a gm thing to do. Guess it wouldn’t surprise if the 9-3x would arrive in the showrooms before the 9-5.
GM is going rover-style !
Like I’ve been saying all along GM has not and will not do anything for SAAB. Do everyone a favor, sell SAAB.
abandon ship abandon ship!!!!!!! get out before the world of Saab ends thanks to the fat cats in detroit
NO NO NO! SAAB needs the new 9-5 in showrooms no later than summer 2009 and continues to expand their range fast, otherwise GM can forget the SAAB brand.
SAAB will probably manage to get at decent 9-5 out by 2010 but at that time BMW, Audi and others will introduce new models and the “new” 9-5 will again seem old…
I also read in AMS Sweden that development of the next 9-3 has been canceled and the decision on the 9-1 is far far away.
Seems like SAABs comeback ended before it started. Sorry to say but today I’m thinking that my next car will be an Audi!
Forget 4 years ago, the 9-3x SHOULD have come out around the same time Mr. Crocodile DunDee introduced us the Outback.
Tough times ahead, ladies and gentlemen.
joemama: unfortunately some of that was due to Saab’s own past arrogance. For years while Audi and others were selling AWD-equipped vehicles Saab insisted that they didn’t need it and that FWD is all anyone should ever need.
As a result the Epsilon platform the 9-3 SS/SC is based-on is supposedly incapable of mounting an AWD system. It wasn’t until Haldex came up with the lower-profile XWD system that Saab was able to adapt it to work on the 9-3.
So while you’re right in part that Saab should have had an AWD option back in the 90s, they realistically could have only had the 9-3X on dealer lots shortly after the Turbo-X debuted about mid-year this year at the earliest.
That said, the 9-3X should have been on dealer lots this past summer or fall at the latest. Are they worried about a shortage of XWD systems from Haldex? If so, as someone mentioned in comments they should have just foregone the 2008 and 2009 9-3 Aero w/XWD and concentrated on the 2.0T w/XWD and the 9-3X.
FWD IS all anyone needs, provided you live somewhere sensible.
I think if you live somewhere that requires AWD, you should be driving a truck.
But that’s just me.
As the current 9-5 can’t be produced much longer without redesigns (as the engine factory is sold off and the 9-5 Aero turbo is out of production), I think it’s highly unlikely that the new 9-5 will be canceled.
But the downturn means that the stocks will last longer. Which may mean more time to fix quility issues. Fewer try-out builds may mean an extra iteration (which may, or may not, be related to the lack of spy photos of the 9-5 body).
Jeff: I didn’t mean to re-ignite the old FWD vs. AWD argument, I just wanted to point-out that for years Saab ignored what the market was demanding, insisting that their way was the best way. And instead of just giving consumers what they want they tried to bring people around (unsuccessfully) to their thinking. In the meantime Subaru, Audi, BMW, Volvo, and everyone else was selling AWD cars while Saab was insisting FWD is better. FINALLY Saab broke-down and introduced XWD a dime short and a day late.
On the note of the 9-5 (and possibly 9-4X) being delayed, I couldn’t for the life of me figure-out how this would be advantageous to GM, but on NPR today I heard the Senior Industry Editor at Edmunds being interviewed and she mentioned that GM re-negotiated labor contracts with the union and those new contracts go into effect in 2010. I wonder if GM is trying to hold-out until they get more favorable labor contracts? But that wouldn’t make sense as neither Trollhattan nor Russelsheim nor Ramos Arizpe have anything to do with the UAW.
If the 9-3 development has been cancelled I think this is a sure fire indication of what GM is intending for the Saab brand. Id say sell it to Renault-Nissan or PSA as a luxury brand is something bot these manufacturers are missing in Europe.
I feel absolutely gutted that the 9-5 may not be at Geneva and hope that the story is wrong.
Jeff: Are you saying that Americans should be driving truck?
Seriously, things are bad and likely to get worse before they get better. I’m crossing my fingers that SAAB survives.
Much as a Nissan/Renault takeover would be great, don’t they now have Infiniti to fulfil their premium ambitions in Europe?
Theoretically yes, but in Europe Japanese premium brands aren’t genrally considered as “real” premium brand. Lexus for example is hardly selling any cars in Europe despite they’re presence in Europe since the 80-90′s and is still not considered as a real alternative for bmw, audi and mercedes.
So R/N could use a brand like saab. They have all the technologie it takes (diesel and petrol engines, transmissions, 4wd, …) and then R/N would finally have a “real” premium brand.
On the other hand, the PSA group (peugeot/citroen) could also benefit from having a brand like Saab. With saab, it would be easier for them to earn back their investments in high end technologie, “big” engines and stuff, used in their larger cars (citroen c5 and c6, peugeot 607).
Plus, PSA has recently proven with citroen (c5, c6, c4 picasso, c3 pluriel and the soon to some c3 picasso, all very distinctive cars) that they know how to manage a “quirky” brand.
Since the peugeot 607 (large sedan) won’t be replaced (at least not in the near future), PSA could use a model like the 9-5 or the 9-3 to make some money out of all the technologie investments done for the c6 and c5.
I gave it a second thought and the PSA group might even be a better option then R/N, especially since PSA has proven with citroen that they dare to make distinctive cars with a clear brand identity (I really love the c6 and if the 9-5 is not coming soon I recommand that car to anyone who was thinking of buying a 9-5. But buy it 2nd hand, a citroen looses its value even faster then the average saab
).
Plus, it would give PSA acces to North America.
An interesting point is that citroen went nearly bankrupt in the 90′s because they were building very moderate, common cars (e.g. the old c5 and the citroen xsara). After a while PSA realised that peopole buy citroens because they want a distinctive car.
So PSA started building distinctive citroens again (starting with the c3) and it lived happily ever after …
I think that’s a lesson GM should learn.
I would get seriously worried if my next 9-3 or 9-5 was packed with French electronics….
Arild,
I’ll take French electronics over Italian electronics any day ….. [wink]
SaabKen: I think Fiat might make a reasonable owner for Saab. It would be quite ironic if Fiat bought Saab because GM beat them to the punch over 18 years ago. Later, Fiat benefitted from GM buying into them and then rather unceremoniously selling out of them again. I found that quite amusing!
As to how Saab would fit with Alfa Romeo and Lancia, that’s another matter. Fiat seems to be trying quite hard to revive the Lancia brand at the moment and buying Saab would complicate things.
Still stranger things have happened…
What value would Saab actually give to Nissan?
Other than a small hardcore of fans I really don’t think the vast majority of new car buyers would care if a Saab was a choice or not . They would simply buy an Audi , Vauxhall , BMW or what ever .
Saab is failing.
I cant see that in the present tough economic times that Saab would be a worthwhile investment for GM or any other manufacturer.
It’s very sad by times may have passed Saab by.
I can’t take this any more, if 9-5 is not coming in 2009, mynext car will be an Audi.
The “Fiat buys Saab” theory is amusing, if unlikely. I cant really see why Nissan Renault would want it either. Perhaps Tata, or one of the Chinese makers who need a real brand?
Can someone explain to me why they dropped the HOT 4? What a GREAT engine……
The two Swedish automakers definitely deserve to escape the claws of the American big three.
In my opinion, PSA (Peugeot-Citroen) should buy Saab. They need a premium brand, and Saab and Citroen have a common history of introducing crazy innovations that sometimes ended up becoming a standard. A Saab-Citroen think tank could produce the boldest concept cars we’ve ever seen. PSA also has a collaboration with Mitsubishi about electric cars, alternative fuels etc, which Saab could benefit from (and contribute to).
Volvo should go to Renault-Nissan, who also sorely need a premium brand. They’re more conservative than PSA and this would fit better with the overall Volvo philosophy.
This is sad, but not unexpected.
GM is really in a boatload of trouble. Its not as if they have the option to spend the money, but just don’t want to. There is a real chance of GM filing for bankruptcy in the near future.
I really hope that the Saab brand can survive this in some form.
Many execs in Sweden believe in a future where there are no more Saab or Volvo Cars, due to the troubles of the U.S. auto industry.
With Saab hemorrhaging money as they have for the last decade, its difficult to believe anyone out there would be interested in buying it.
This is bad bad bad. The dealers are hurting enough as it is with really only the 9-3 to sell, because the current 9-5 is too old. If GM does turn around and are able to launch the 9-5 in the forseaable future, I hope there will be dealers left to sell it…