News on Saab and GM Powertrain
Here’s a press release that’s just come out of the tubes from GM Europe.
There was some reorganisation at Saab’s Sodertalje engine facility a few years ago. It was all a little confusing back then, but this seems a lot simpler.
It sounds like good news, too, with the consolidation of Saab’s turbocharging and powertrain engineering groups. A bigger presence in Trollhattan is always good news as far as I’m concerned.
Read on.
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GM Powertrain Europe and AVL announce new ownership for Södertälje Powertrain
· Consolidation of GM’s Swedish Powertrain Engineering operations in Trollhättan
· Saab Turbo Center and Powertrain Engineering co-location to better support the Saab brand
· Global engineering organization AVL purchases Södertälje Powertrain
General Motors Powertrain Europe today announced the consolidation of its Swedish Powertrain Engineering operations in Trollhättan and the sale of its Södertälje Powertrain operation to AVL, a global engineering organization based in Graz, Austria.
The strategic move will allow GM Powertrain Sweden to fully support the development of the next generation of clean and efficient turbo-charged 4-cylinder engines for gasoline and alternative fuels. Co-locating all GM Powertrain Sweden operations with the GM Powertrain Engineering Center and Saab Automobile AB operations in Trollhättan will also strengthen the relationship between vehicle and powertrain engineering, the Turbo Center and better support the Saab brand.
“The sale of the Södertälje Powertrain organization also announced today includes the site, buildings and the transfer of the employees to AVL, as well as an Engineering Service Agreement for the first two years of AVL’s ownership,” said Kjell ac Bergstroem, Executive Director GM Powertrain Sweden.
“This is a very positive outcome for GM Powertrain Sweden, the Södertälje team and AVL. The service agreement secures GM Powertrain Sweden uninterrupted access to the expertise and services at Södertälje Powertrain Engineering AB (SPEAB).
“For the Södertälje employees the agreement also preserves their benefits and entitlements and offers them certainty and new opportunities under the ownership of AVL,” Bergstroem underlined.
The Executive Advisor to the Chairman of AVL, Mr Robert Hofer said the purchase of the Södertälje Powertrain Engineering operation was an important part of the company’s strategy. “The Södertälje operation helps AVL develop a greater local presence, will enable us to develop closer customer relations and expand our know-how network,” Mr Hofer said.
SPEAB currently has 117 employees and an annual turnover of 150 MSEK. It will continue to deliver services such as Trionic Engine Management System development and calibration to the GM Group. As a member of the AVL Group, SPEAB will be able to undertake global engineering work for new customers in their proven areas of expertise, including alternative fuels, CO2 reduction technologies and optimization of electronics.
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Don’t know how to interpret the PR spin, but for sure, we will see GM selling a lot more assets, if they can… They are about to be flushed from the Dow Jones Index. When that happens, it will be to late to save the Titanic, which is taking on water faster than it can pump it out. Or if you prefer, they are burning through more cash than they are able to borrow. At this point, Bill Gates could by GM!
How’s renault doing? I wonder if they shouldn’t just sell off Saab as a whole right now.
Renault is hurting also. They just licensed 3000 people in Europe I believe. Besides, they already have Infinity, which is tanking like the others. The bubble has finally busted my friends. The healing will be very long…
What work has GM Europe Powertrain’s Swedish operations been working on? What products do they produce? Do they have significant ongoing R&D? From what I can tell (and I’m not at all an expert, so correct me if I’m wrong) the Swedish operations only produce the 2.3-liter inline-4 with the aluminum head and cast-iron block found in the current Saab 9-5. This engine is due to be phased-out after this upcoming model-year. What other products will this group produce?
The problem with GM (and the entire car industry) is that with the economic slowdown (actually it was revealed this morning that in the U.S. it’s officially a stock market “crash”, with the criteria for such being a 20%+ drop) not only are people less-likely to buy a big ticket item like a vehicle in such a time of economic uncertainty, but they’re also having trouble securing a loan to do so. Very few people buy cars with cash outright, so if banks aren’t loaning money nobody’s buying cars, automakers have layoffs, and that “trickles down”.
Until banks begin loaning money again we’re going to see very tough times for GM and the entire economy.
It’s funny because I had diversified my 401(k) money, investing some of it in foreign stocks, figuring that’s a good way to hedge in case the U.S. economy takes a downturn. The problem: the world markets are so interconnected now when the U.S. tanks everyone else follows! So my money wasn’t safe. Good thing I still have a good 25 years (at least) before I retire to make that money back!
Is it just me or someone else who noticed the following: “It will continue to deliver services such as Trionic Engine Management System development and calibration to the GM Group.” Why is this being outsourced? Was this not central to the efficiency of the B205 and B235 powerplants and a unique architechture or signature of the engine management system of Saab? Is the Saab architechture not being diluted further by getting rid of the very core essence of what allowed Saab to be truly not mainstream in terms of its well-touted Trionic engine management system? Granted, this is just the engine management system portfolio, but the omens of further diluting the Saab brand by moving it far away from its DNA roots is too large to ignore. So, what else will allow Saab to be distinctly different? Am just wondering.
Danni: a good point. But I’m guessing GME is planning to move Saab off their own Trionic engine management system in favor of outsourcing it. We saw this first with the Bosch Motronic system on the 9-3 Aero.
I believe the BioPower system requires Trionic however, so if Saab will continue to offer BioPower (I can’t see why they wouldn’t as it’s a top-seller in Sweden) they’ll have to continue development. I understand that Trionic wasn’t capable of handling some of the management duties required of the Holden V6. Something about not having a capability to handle variable valve lift, or something. But the next-gen Trionic system allegedly remedies this.
Again, GM is outsourcing because it is going broke. The danger of course, is that eventually they will not be able to pay their suppliers. As somebody else would put it: we are looking at a big bowl of no good.
As for the Trionic, as with many Saab innovations, it’s probably outdated today. With two DI failures on our 9-5, I’m not sure I will miss it…
Is the Saab Trionic system being used on other GM vehicles (under different names)?
No.9, if GM were to file for Chapter 11 protection, or actually cease operations, this will likey set off a chain reaction that will also push both Ford and Chrysler under within days. The stock market has practically deemed them all insolvent for a some time now, so I won’t worry about investors, however, the real economic implications of this would bring about a depression that will dwarf the one from the 1930’s.
You think there is a credit crunch now? Just wait until those three default on their combined $600+ billion debts, their suppliers and all associated businesses go under and in turn default on their debt, and 1/3 of the U.S. worforce lose their jobs and stop paying their mortgages and loans. I don’t care what the bloggers of the world think (I am looking at you, Robert Farago), this will trigger a collapse of such massive proportions no one will be left unharmed.
It’s fun to chit-chat about the Titanic that GM is, however it’s prudent to be aware of the real-life implications should the ship actually sink. People rather foolishly think that only assembly-line workers in Ohio will be affected. The truth is quite different, and the U.S. government will not let them sink, especilly in the middle of a huge crisis.
Kroum: I am in total agreement with your analysis and I don’t find it amusing «to chit-chat about the Titanic that GM is». I am only trying to be realist. If the U.S. government still has the means to save the big 2.8, that is fine with me. But let’s not forget that the stupid war they are boggled in is draining it’s treasury faster than you can blink. I think there is a limit to how much money they can print. But what do I know what crooks can or can’t do.
No.9: the “big three” have themselves to blame for the position they find themselves in. Just ONE example is how they were living high-on-the-hog selling high profit margin trucks and SUVs while laughing at the Japanese manufacturers who were investing heavily in hybrids and the European manufacturers who were investing heavily in diesel. Toyota even bet that the future belongs to fuel-efficient cars when they were selling the Prius at a loss.
All the while GM (for example) was trying to sell us on how hydrogen is the future (and always only 15 years away!) while selling us on ethanol, which would see the least possible required capital outlay in R&D.
It disturbs me as I see the need for the federal gov’t to step-in and bail-out the auto industry rather than let it destroy itself, but just as the financial firm bailout it bothers me to know MY taxpayer dollars are going to morons who brought this upon themselves. That, and the fact that the U.S. is in such debt anyway means we’re borrowing MORE money (or just printing more), further devaluing the dollar.
So what, we the taxpayers give billions to the “big 3″ to invest as they see fit?
The U.S. automobile industry can’t be allowed to fail. I’d just feel much better if the morons in charge were making good decisions even the layman could see were “no-brainers”. I would set a criteria that if the auto manufacturers want a bailout they have to lay-off all of their top decision-makers without golden parachutes and replace them with people with a coherent and realistic PLAN.
I feel your pain Gripen. We all feel it cause the world economy has been sucked in this whirlpool of no good. I know exactly how the big 2.8 got there and yes they deserve to go belly up but as Kroum has skilfully demonstrated, we can’t afford to let that happen. So the next best thing would indeed require that the top brass be fired with no golden parachutes. I think Ford was very wise to bring in Alan Mulally from Boeing. His brain hasn’t been polluted by decencies of ill management and golden amenities which enables him to analyse the mess with a fresher look. Fast tracking the European Focus and Fiesta (and maybe even the KA) to NA is a good example. NA should of had the European Focus from the start. That would have put a serious dent in the sales of the Corolla and the likes in the US.
No.9, I think from time to time we all take pleasure in dissing and tossing GM and their peers. And they deserve it, for they have brought this mess on themselves for the most part. But while it’s easy to cheer Toyota for the Prius, why should we forget the Tundra, the Land Cruiser and those V8 Lexus SUVs that have flooded America?
Everyone had jumped on the money train before it hit that overpass, and I don’t care what corporate bullshit Toyota’s PR dept. came up with to make people feel sorry for poor Toyota, selling cars that will save the earth at a loss (read: financing them from the sales of SUVs). Let us mot mistake corporate hypocrisy and the truth.
hmm yes, its not a good time for someone who’s looking to get into the automotive business in a few years time becuase all of this will affect it in the future. How long has it been? 2 weeks Max? and all the world’s economies have crashed which could affect us for many years to come. How long did the depression last in America.
Is this bad for design as well? I remember from a Documentary I was watching recently that in the 50’s 60’s most companies didn’t have the money to design really beautiful or cool looking cars, then the Japanese came in and the design became more important, because the rest of the car industry, GM, BL etc could not compete. Is this worse than we thought? The FTSE, the UK market fell below 4,000 today which has been unheard of since roughly the beginning of this century, at the beginning of this year it was pushing 7,000, so thats about 57% of what it was worth at the beginning of the year.
Sorry if any of the figures are wrong, I’m using my very basic knowledge of GSCE Business Studies yo work it all out
From what I’ve read GM Powertrain is developing a new generation of Trionic that is to be used globally by GM, as improved engine control is instrumental to improved fuel economy and cheaper engine control parts (Bosch stuff isn’t cheap). Also, a 2 year service agreement, in these times, with GM may very well prove to be a jackpot for AVL (less so for the people in Trollhättan, though). I think GM engineering departments in Sweden has more solid ground today than they’ve had in a long, long time.
But of course, if GM (or any of the major manufacturers) goes into bankruptcy, there will be huge problems.
Kroum: you bring up a good point, but Toyota diversified. While investing in (and taking a loss on) the Prius they were selling the big vehicles you mention at a big profit. So now that the market for the big vehicles is down the low-fuel-consumption product sales will help buffer Toyota’s hit. Toyota has responded by canceling the planned diesel powertrain for the Tundra and has started converting former large vehicle factories to make smaller cars.
On the other hand GM put all their eggs in the SUV/truck basket. They didn’t diversify and invest in smaller cars and advanced/alternative technologies like hybrid or diesel heavily enough. Sure, they invest in hydrogen fuel cells (and have for over 40 years now) and things like HCCI, but not nearly aggressively enough.
As a result GM is playing “catch-up”. They’re now trying to invest in hybrids (with what money, I have no idea) after laughing them off for years (actually trying to leap-frog the Japanese technologically with the series hybrid Chevy Volt) and had to go out and buy VM Motori to have a diesel engine manufacturer so they don’t have to keep buying engines from FIAT.
Where’s the hydrogen future? Where’s the promise of ethanol in North America? Every day it looks more and more like greenwashing. GM is reaping what it has sewn.
I agree that GM was too late to diversify. However, diversification in any industry, and esecially automotive building, comes a a huge cost, and if we have to be honest Toyota had and still has a lot more free funds than GM. Their legacy costs are enormous.
Of course, GM is a publicly traded business entity, so there are no excuses. But we should also remember that they did bring the EV1 and ended up crushing it. Of course, this reprsents a classic case of market failure, but to sit and say they were not trying is incorrect.
Btw., there was a great article on the Volt in the Atlantic a couple of monts ago, you can read it here when you have time (it is not a short one). It nicely illustrates the difficulties at play from a purely engineering standpoint.
P.S. Regarding ethanol availability in the U.S., you need to speak to your government. GM cannot cover the country with ethanol pumps in, like, 5 months.
Kroum: I don’t need ethanol as I don’t have a car that can run on it anymore anyway. I had to turn-in my flex-fuel Impala when I was laid-off. I only have two Saabs now.
What happened to BioPower in the U.S.?
“What work has GM Europe Powertrain’s Swedish operations been working on?”
GM Powertrain Sweden work mainly on charged engines, controls and dual clutch transmissions.
GM Powertrain Sweden is a part of GM Powertrain Europe, in other words, they are not a part of Saab, rather Saab is a paying customer just like Opel, Cadillac, Chevrolet and others. By paying GM Powertrain they all get the right to use the engines they develope.
The products they develope are not manufactured locally, but they can come from USA, Germany, Australia or whereever GM has a manufacturing plant and sold to any brand within GM.
“Is it just me or someone else who noticed the following: “It will continue to deliver services such as Trionic Engine Management System development and calibration to the GM Group.” Why is this being outsourced?”
Well, in the automotive industry it’s rare that something is developed and manufactured completely in house, Trionic wasn’t so why should it be different today?
“Well, in the automotive industry it’s rare that something is developed and manufactured completely in house, Trionic wasn’t so why should it be different today?”
I totally agree with you. Why should any car manufacturer have any of their own activities other than R&D and an assembly plant? Subcontracting is the keyword.
I’m just afraid that Trionic won’t be used in future Saab models. Now they’ve already used Bosch Motronic for 2.8V6t engine. I wrote about it to GM when 2.8V6t was launched and asked why they used Motronic. The official answer was that it’s a “corporation engine” and it’s used for 2-3 GM car brands. So I guess there was a demand for a larger engine which can be used in Opels, Cadillacs etc.
Trionic 8 is used in three brands too, Saab, Opel and Cadillac, so I don’t think that was an issue. But to my knowledge Trionic 8 has never been used to control a six cylinder engine or an engine with variable cam phasing, and making a version that is able to do that would probably have been more costly than using an commerical off the shelf system like ME9.
Kjell ac Bergström has also said to Auto Motor & Sport (translated from swedish):
“We are right now developing a global “GM-box” that in principle will be used for all engines and contain functions for engine control, ESP, 4WD, hybrid systems; everything you can think of. We are doing the job once and can divide the costs over millions of cars. A subcontractor want to be paid for each car model, independent on the work they do, and we have to pay because we have no other option. But soon we will have.”
The guys at Scania are developing their own fuel injection systems together with Cummins for the exact same reason. They have said that Bosch want to be paid too much for their systems and more or less deliver the parts when they see fit. It’s these common rail fuel injection systems that are manufactured in Saabs old engine plant in Södertälje.