Let Saabs be Saabs
A light went on today. It’s like one of those bits of knowledge that you already have, but it just hasn’t been made apparent to you yet.
Today I figured out why Saab (and Volvo) are so important to the North American market. Why GM can’t let Saab fall into a generic design haze. Why they HAVE to retain their Swedish identity if they’re going to remain viable as a brand.
I spent a lot of time on the road today and the subconsciously obvious took front and center in my conscious mind - around 98% of the vehicles on Canadian roads are either from the domestic North American market, Japan/Korea (which I deliberately lump together) or Germany.
Around 85 of the 98% is North American or Asian, and almost all of it is either totally uninspiring or derivative, with a small proportion of the vehicles warranting a second glance.
I knew with my head that this would be the case before I got here, but there’s something about actually seeing the situation for yourself that brings it home. In my home market, in Australia, we also have a large proportion of domestic and Asian cars, but we also have a faithful and pretty interesting French and Italian presence as well. They may not sell a LOT of cars, but they certainly add color and interest to the automotive landscape.
GM have to make Saab more distinctive if they’re going to have a presence in the North American market. “Distinctive” is what brought a great number of us to Saab in the first place. There was nothing else like a 99, or a 900 or a 9000. Saab needs a presence in the sports sedan market, but the fact is that they aren’t doing 3-box sedans well enough to survive here, and I don’t think I’d really want them to. If all I wanted was a basic sedan as adequate transport then I’d buy a Honda.
But that’s not what I want, and I don’t think it’s what many Saab buyers want, either.
I’ve seen a lot of new Mustangs on the road since I’ve been here, and I’ve got to congratulate Ford on the design job they did with that car. It looks exactly as a modern interpretation of the old Mustang should. I’m yet to drive one, but hopefully the opportunity might arise.
I’m not suggesting that Saab should do a modern take on the 900, though I’d love it if they did. But like Ford did with the Mustang, Saab need to do something that captures the essence, the spirit of what made them great.
Unfortunately, North America is too important a market to let go of. Saab have to stand out if they’re to make an impression here and the best way to do that is outstanding value and superb Saab design.
Right now, and contrary to what we might think and what we know is historical fact, Saab are rated lowest in terms of customer retention by JD Power. The all-sedan lineup hasn’t worked and the addition of the SportCombi was too little, too late.
Saab needs it’s mojo back, and quick. Seeing GM have committed themselves to Saab for the long haul, it’s in their best interests to let the designers off the leash a little and let Saabs be Saabs. They’ll drown in a true sea of mediocrity if they don’t.
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it will cost too much money for them to do that. with every passing year GM makes Saab a bit more generic and puts more parts into them. for Christ’s sake the new 9-5 is designed by germans. its a sad day when the swedes dont even design their own vehicles anymore.
” They’ll drown in a true sea of mediocrity if they don’t.” - Swade, they already have and the sales figures are showing us so.
I gotta agree with you, Swade. The car industry really has caught a case of the Blahs here in North America taste-wise. Nearly all the Asian brands have the same boring design cues more or less, along with the same boring paint jobs, finishes, and same boring personalities. GM needs to inject more Saabiness into the market, not less. We already have plenty of Point-A-to-Point-B econoboxes- no need for another competitor that can’t compete with the kings of driving appliances such as Toyota.
Your’e right. The next gen 9-5 may show the route SAAB is taking, designwise. BUT I’m afraid they will launch a sedan and not a hatch, although it may look like a hatch, it will probably be a sedan (hell, if people want a premium sedan, let them buy a Cadillac or a BMW or an Audi…). Later on there will be a traditional Wagon (9-5) or SportsCombi as they call the 9-3. SAAB will have to be different to survive. Design is one thing, looking different is fine, but they need to be distinctive (as you say). A hatch in the 9-5 segment that looks like a coupe/hatch (Jaguarlike), that stands out and has the driveability and is based on the latest technology to go with, will be a success. Regarding the Wagon/SportsCombi they should also make it “different”, give it more X-Adventure (SAAB Salomon) feel - a bit more “rugged”, but not entirely SUV/Crossover (the 9-4X will cover that segment). If your’e the guy that goes mountainbiking, skiing, surfing, this is your car (also if you want people to think you do these things, this is your car). In terms of technology, I’d like SAAB to be all turbo and all XWD - no compromise. If you buy a SAAB, you will get turbo and all wheel drive - full stop. No compromise. If you want a SAAB, you will have to pay for this, whether you drive in the Swiss Alps, Melbourne, Miami, Alaska or Trollhattan. People may say: what do you need XWD for here in Florida? Well, it comes with it, so why not! It’s built in, because it makes the drive so much safer (roadholding, on wet surfaces etc.). It must not be perceived as though XWD and turbos make the car more expensive, it’s there because SAABs protect their owners and save them petrol (compared to larger non-turbo engines)! SAAB must also be perceived as GREEN, right sizing, hybrid, Bio-Power, Volt technology etc. It’s better to sell 150.000 enthusiast cars and make money, than to loose money selling 250.000 copies of other GM cars. GM must realize that success for SAAB is not mainstream, it’s to be different, distinct and daring.
in this era of low risk homogenization, the NA market could be well-served by a truly funky euro. we don’t get peugeot, citroen, alfa, or fiat, though alfa is coming. saab is stale meat in a purgatory sandwich between two slices of uninteresting and indifferent.
make the 9-X. make it now.
saab. party. ALWAYS. late.
Haven’t you lot read my article on the future of Saab design - here at TS!
Curtis- intrigued that you object to a non-Swede designing a Saab. An Englishman desinged the Audi Quattro (Martin Smith); a Belgian designed an Aston; a Pole desinged the Aston Martin engine; an Italian (Giovani Michelotti) designed a load of Triumphd and BMWs and a German Von Goertz(arguably) drew the Datsun 240z. And non US citizens populate teh US car industry. Oh and an Englishman was design chief at Citroen for a while in the 1980s! Oh and an Englishman reframed Volvo-Peter Horbury. And Sweden’s own Bjorn Envall worked for Opel long before Opel’s parent owned Saab - a Swede designing German cars then!
There are many other examples one could cite.
So who cares where the designer has his or her passport- can they design is the thing - is it not?
concerning the new designs… dunno if we already had these links to watch ? I remember the 9-3X, but in minor quality: http://www.automotorsport.se/news/14983/scoop-f%F6rsta-bilderna-p%E5-saab-9-3x/
and the 9-4X again - probably the production version [which looks a bit "flat" - but could be the perspective]: http://www.automotorsport.se/news/15004/saab-9-4x-b%E4ttre-bild-och-ny-prisinfo/
they have some prices too - where the new Saabs might fit in… read for yourself
Great words, Swade. You’re absolutely right
about the boring nature of car watching
here in North America. The roads seem
to be dominated by Kia/Hundai anymore.
Anyhow - if Saab wants to excite car
shoppers/show some mojo, Saab’s gotta
flex the Turbo muscles with a high
powered manual hatch that has a bad-arse exhaust
note (in my highly unprofessional opinion).
J (from Philadelphia, Pa, USA)
Swade,
I agree 100%. Saabs should never be GM’s version of some other car (Acura, Alfa, Audi, BMW, and so on down the alphabet to Volvo and VW). The way to make Saab successful is, ironically enough, to make sure that 75% of the buying public would not even consider them.
GM already makes enough cars that have mass appeal. What they need is a brand that appeals to those of us who really enjoy driving and are willing to pay extra for a car that enjoys being driven.
Progolf,
My previous car had AWD, and I can honestly say that FWD beats AWD any day of the year. This winter was a once-in-a-century event here in Canada, where I could step onto the snowbank in my front yard and see over my roof, and yet I did not once miss AWD. If Saab were to become an all-XWD brand, I would have to shop somewhere else. As far as I am concerned, the so-called “safety” of AWD is just a marketing gimmick that translates to higher weight, lower fuel mileage, worse steering response and responsiveness. It is fun to drop the clutch at 5000 rpm in the snow every once in a while but, once you get to the first corner, a FWD car just tracks better than AWD. It’s hard to explain exactly, but the closest I can come is to say that FWD cars arc around corners, whereas AWD cars squirrel, forcing you to make 100’s of tiny course corrections as the balance shifts back and forth.
Yes…”let Saab be Saab”. I would add worldwide.
Can Saab/GM afford to be shipping V6 engine blocks from Mexico to Australia, assembling these engines, then shipping them to Europe for eventual installation in cars that, by and large end up in America? Did the 93 ever NEED a V6 in the first place? With the “cheap” dollar around for the foreseeable future General MOTORS(ie Tonawanda) better get geared up to build some of the fuel-mizer engines it appears are going to be in demand, both here and abroad.
The lack of 40+mpg cars in the US market especially, is shameful. I cant tell you how many VW diesel addicts(usually 40-50 somethings) Ive run into that love their diesels, but HATE VWs. GMs stubbornness to get their eurodiesels certified is resulting in thousands of lost sales. And, no I dont believe that after billions spent with Fiat, these cannot be. Smaller (~1.5L) petrol engines also need attention.
Instead of wasting time developing the XWD with two ring and pinions(~10% energy waste) and a driveshaft, a unique and innovative electric-drive system could be employed…ala the biohybrid concept car…15-24mpg is just not draggin ‘em into showrooms.
GMEurope really needs to take the ball and run with it…cuz GMNA has little or NO clue.
Well put Swade. If only GM took a little of that and didn’t disregard it because “they are the professionals.” Yeah, the professionals who are about to go bankrupt.
Lance-
I was mainly referring to the lack of SAAB Automobile AB designing the 9-5. The article I read made it sound like Opel had the charge of designing the 9-5 while Trollhattan sat and spun it’s thumbs.
Swade,
If I could not have a Saab, I’d drive a Honda any day over a Citroen. Honda shares the same clean, modernist design language and has a great balance of function and form. Derivative? How insulting. As for lumping Japanese and Korean cars together, you may want to read up Hyundai’s shared design heritage with the Saab 9000, which in case you forgot was not designed by a Swede.
There is a reason why we don’t have any Citroens in North America, it is because the old ones were cheesy, disproportionate, and impractical, and the newer ones are bland, low quality, and poor workmanship.
I’ve been out of a SAAB now for over a year (sold a 2004 9-3SS Aero and bought a 2007 BMW 335i).
Driving around and still being a fan of SAAB, I realize now how non-unique the sports sedan is. Sure, it’s a good car and has a lot of merit, but when I see the pre-2003 hatch-based 9-3’s (or earlier models) that’s when my head turns and I think “ooooooooh SAAB!”
So, I think they definitely need to deliver a hatch again. Something that says “I’m a SAAB and much like I did decades ago I can compete with the best sports sedan out there and deliver the utility of a wagon.” That would get me back to a SAAB pretty quick if the refinement and quality are raised appropriately. Of course world beating economy is going to be a huge feature that every brand has to focus on going forward.
I know there are many who lament that Saab no longer offers a coupe (or a combi-coupe), aka 2-door (or 3-door).
Other than the fact that they look a lot nicer (which is subjective) I couldn’t figure-out until recently what some people see in a 2-door rather than a 4-door.
But it struck me the other day. I’ve been driving both my wife’s ‘01 9-3 5-door and my ‘85 900T 3-door a lot lately. I’ve been driving my 900T more due to the ‘01 requiring mechanical problems (blew the turbo and now it’s sporadically putting-on the low oil pressure light) and being in the shop.
So I’ve had to shuttle my wife back and forth to and from work (I’m newly unemployed…) with my ‘85, which I usually only use as a weekend driver.
She commented on how much “bigger” and “roomier” my car is than hers. I pointed-out that I think the outside (and possibly the inside) dimensions of the C900T are actually larger than the OG9-3. She said there’s more legroom in both the front seat and back seat and it’s easier to get in and out of the front seat. I think it’s because the single passenger door is larger than on a 4-door.
So on my next Saab I’d like to have another 3-door. At least make it available for those to buy if they want it, Saab. I mean, if people really DO prefer a 4-door then that’s fine, they’ll continue to buy them.
I totally agree but all too often GM has stood for “Generic Motors” the antheseis of what Saab has usually tried to be about. Perhaps that’s always been the problem?
The new 9-5 should come with a hatch even if it’s not available at launch and the next 9-3 needs to have 3 and 5 door hatches as options.
Saab sales got a little help in Oz yesterday when the “Luxury Car Tax” hike got defeated in the Senate. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think they’ve been collecting it since July 1st!
I agree with you Swade.
Markac Saab Australia have been absorbing the LCT increase since July 1 to help encourage sales.
With apologies to Kroum and all the others who bought their SAABs new, a fair number of others here have told of how they came by their SAABs as used cars. Given present conditions, that’s a smart move. However, any solution to SAAB’s problems requires that they sell new cars, and at a decent profit. Why don’t more folks buy new? Well, SAABs depreciate fast, partly because of huge discounts offered by the dealerships and partly because SAABs are expensive to maintain once they go off warranty. Also, dealerships and SAAB-savvy repair shops are not numerous. Also, many SAABs are leased because customers don’t want to deal with the hassle of owning an older SAAB. Since leases will soon be gone, SAAB needs to rethink the buying process as it mulls over what cars to bring to market.
If SAABs are premium cars, why not back them up with really long-term warranties, say 10 years like Kia? Lots of used SAAB buyers get extended warranties anyway. Why not offer them from the get-go on the new cars and add the cost to the base price? Also, why not adopt a no-haggle policy? This would set a realistic price point and avoid the embarrassment of overly large discounts. This would also help stabilize resale values. No matter what vehicles SAAB ends up offering, it will be much easier to develop long-term repeat customers if the business model is based on a “no-surprises” policy up-front instead of gouging customers on the back-end with hefty repair costs.
Lots of good points here but I agree that AWD should only be an option or distinct model, not standard. We get 5 months of winter here in Montreal but rarely is AWD a winter advantage. It uses more gas (therefore reduces the environmental advantages of smaller engines, etc.), costs more to fix, chews up tires faster, and costs more to buy. In bad weather we need a light foot, not lead foot. Only RWD cars like BMWs and CTSs really benefit from AWD in northern climes. One reason I traded my 328 for a 9-5 was the RWD–it had the traction of an ice cube on even a dusting of snow. The SAAB on summer tires is way better. With winter ties (now compulsory here for several months a year) I can stop on ice on a driveway slope. Stopping is more important for our lives than acceleration. Safety needs to be in our heads and feet as much as in the car, while we can still have fun on the open road.
Two passenger doors do give a more rigid structure, but they are unfriendly to guests. On the other hand something that captures the visual appeal of a beautiful hatch-coupé could indeed be a premium draw. Svelte?
And isn’t BMW’s chief designer a Brit, Chris Bangle? You can add to that list that the designer of the current Chrysler 300 was a Canadian working in the USA.
Cheers all. Hope you’re enjoying the vacation, Swade!
B
Kdsaab: I wasn’t blaming Saab, I was blaming the government. I bet they’ll be very slow to refund any tax collected.
The reason Saab’s retention is so low is because there is nothing for them to get into next!
If you have an 03 or 04 9-3 lease, what are the incentives to stay with Saab? an 07 or 08 that is pretty much exactly the same car and still doesn’t have bluetooth or iPod controls?
And if they don’t stay with a 9-3. what’s left? The even older, more expensive 9-5?
I mean, come on. Is there anything to debate?
Troll96,
Leasing is not soon to be gone…it IS gone as of Sept.2nd as it relates to G.M.A.C. anyway.I personally think that as long as BMW,MB AND Audi continue to support leasing we will see more 2nd,3rd and even 4th generation Saab lessees switching brands rather than signing on to a 5 year finance contract.
“I’m not suggesting that Saab should do a modern take on the 900, though I’d love it if they did.”
Ummm…yes they should. This isn’t terribly complicated. I grew up in New England and for as long as I can remember I love just the mere look of them, inside and out. That, and they were fun to drive with the turbo kick [I usually found excuses to drive my dad's 9000]. That’s why when I bought one just over a year ago I wouldn’t get one newer than a 2002. I didn’t care that it was out of warranty and had a lot of miles. Just sitting in it brings a smile to my face and there’s a hugely noticeable difference in build quality and materials [burled walnut facade, not plastic, that great SID, GLASS headlights with wash/wipe]. It looks like it’s made out of metal, not plastic as the new ones do- though to be fair this is true for newer Lexus [IS 250] and BMW 3-series as well.
Turbo lag? HP? How well a FWD vehicle “holds” the road? Low-end torque? 0-60 in 7, 8, 9, whatever! Who cares? Are we all street racers who drift on the hillsides at 3AM Sunday morning? No. I have a 4 door automatic- I’m not a gearhead or a speed demon though I like the passing power that’s there when I need it [this covers MOST American Saab drivers bear in mind...]. It amazes me that Saab tweaked the car to suit the fancies of the old Axis powers fetishists at Car & Driver and the like who then proceed to turn around and bemoan the loss of Saab’s identity they once pilloried. You’re not going to please them. Just stop alienating your core audience and make cars for them. You can also cut costs by doing this as you can make far fewer cars if you’re going to diminish their widespread marketability.
I think forums like this overestimate the overall wonkishness of the motoring public. The best thing GM did was mainstream the engineering of an entirely SWEDISH design. That’s why the 99-02 9-3s were the pinnacle of Saab in my opinion. Saabish but reliable enough to be an everyday car [that and the hatchback turns the car into a little SUV with the seats down]. That’s all they should do. No crossovers, no SUVs. Stop overthinking- just focus on the design [superficial, yes, but that's what most Euro car buyers are] and make the car more reliable [they're more reliable than they're given credit for but you have to know how to take care of them].
I compare my 9-3 with ANY car on the road and I’d prefer mine. Any car. Can’t say that about the new Sport Sedans. BMW does a nice 3-series, no need to follow suit. You know how Scandinavians are world-renowned for their furniture design? Base your cars on that sort of innovation and design aesthetic but embodied in an automobile. If you’re gonna get beat wouldn’t you rather get beat with your best “stuff” [to crib an old baseball expression]?
“Asian cars” are designed in Germany, Italy and the UK, produced in these countries and some more like in Slovakia. Their shareholders are Asians, Arabs, Americans and so on.
BMWs are designed and built in the USA, Porsches in the former Eastern block. Thus, who cares about Saab?
Michael:
I do.