Comments on: Autosavant considers the state of Saab http://www.trollhattansaab.net/archives/2008/09/autosavant-considers-the-state-of-saab.html Saab 9-1, 9-3, 9-4x, 9-5, 9-7x News Thu, 11 Dec 2008 06:34:22 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: 900_S http://www.trollhattansaab.net/archives/2008/09/autosavant-considers-the-state-of-saab.html#comment-52656 900_S Fri, 12 Sep 2008 10:51:52 +0000 http://www.trollhattansaab.net/?p=7914#comment-52656 My dad was the one who got my family into Saabs in the mid 80s. I was very young at the time so I don't remember the visit to the dealership, but the salesman talked my dad out of getting the turboed 900 on the basis that they're expensive and a pain to take care of, and just a passing fad--meaning parts will be hard to find and even more expensive in the future. My family did end up buying a turboed car much later: a 2000 Volvo V40, a 1.9 liter four cylinder low-pressure turbo. Maybe it's because it's a low-pressure turbo, but my mom drives that car into the ground and there has never been an issue with the turbo or engine--not that I'm a Volvo supporter. The keyless entry system and a/c failed, a seatbelt broke, but the turbo and engine are somehow running strong. I think like most products out there, there is a small percentage that are just destined to fail (it's just too bad when you're the one who buys the dud). Maybe there's also a small percentage on the other end of the spectrum that perform long passed their expected use. I am a walking testimony of the safety of Saab, and am quite proud to sport the third family-owned 900 (now mine), even if it isn't a turbo. Although had that jerk at the dealership been of a different opinion, <em></em>I<em></em> could possibly be rolling around in an SPG today! My dad was the one who got my family into Saabs in the mid 80s. I was very young at the time so I don’t remember the visit to the dealership, but the salesman talked my dad out of getting the turboed 900 on the basis that they’re expensive and a pain to take care of, and just a passing fad–meaning parts will be hard to find and even more expensive in the future.

My family did end up buying a turboed car much later: a 2000 Volvo V40, a 1.9 liter four cylinder low-pressure turbo. Maybe it’s because it’s a low-pressure turbo, but my mom drives that car into the ground and there has never been an issue with the turbo or engine–not that I’m a Volvo supporter. The keyless entry system and a/c failed, a seatbelt broke, but the turbo and engine are somehow running strong. I think like most products out there, there is a small percentage that are just destined to fail (it’s just too bad when you’re the one who buys the dud). Maybe there’s also a small percentage on the other end of the spectrum that perform long passed their expected use.

I am a walking testimony of the safety of Saab, and am quite proud to sport the third family-owned 900 (now mine), even if it isn’t a turbo. Although had that jerk at the dealership been of a different opinion, I could possibly be rolling around in an SPG today!

]]> By: Danni http://www.trollhattansaab.net/archives/2008/09/autosavant-considers-the-state-of-saab.html#comment-52629 Danni Thu, 11 Sep 2008 06:13:31 +0000 http://www.trollhattansaab.net/?p=7914#comment-52629 DMR - no one on this blog said that. The advert read: 30 years of turbocharging when at a time when everyone else was belting out bigger displacement engines in search of power and torque whilst Saab stuck to right-sizing: smaller displacement engines but with torque and power advantages at very low rpms. Let me illustrate: 169kW at 5500rpm and 350Nm of which 90% is available at 1900rpm. One of the local automotive magazines wayback in 2002 called the 9-5 Aero the "Overtaker." DMR – no one on this blog said that. The advert read: 30 years of turbocharging when at a time when everyone else was belting out bigger displacement engines in search of power and torque whilst Saab stuck to right-sizing: smaller displacement engines but with torque and power advantages at very low rpms. Let me illustrate: 169kW at 5500rpm and 350Nm of which 90% is available at 1900rpm. One of the local automotive magazines wayback in 2002 called the 9-5 Aero the “Overtaker.”

]]> By: DMR http://www.trollhattansaab.net/archives/2008/09/autosavant-considers-the-state-of-saab.html#comment-52614 DMR Thu, 11 Sep 2008 03:18:58 +0000 http://www.trollhattansaab.net/?p=7914#comment-52614 Huh? Saab did not invent turbocharging. Turbocharging has been around for almost a hundred years. The first turbocharged cars were actually GMs (Oldsmobiles and Chevys) in the 50s. Huh? Saab did not invent turbocharging. Turbocharging has been around for almost a hundred years. The first turbocharged cars were actually GMs (Oldsmobiles and Chevys) in the 50s.

]]> By: Barry http://www.trollhattansaab.net/archives/2008/09/autosavant-considers-the-state-of-saab.html#comment-52600 Barry Wed, 10 Sep 2008 18:57:08 +0000 http://www.trollhattansaab.net/?p=7914#comment-52600 Well my only note on turbo reliability is this ... Since 1988, when I got my first turbo (900 T), I've owned (or its been in my immediate family) '88 900T 105K miles (sold) '93 9000 CSE 115K miles (crash test) '95 9000 Aero 110K miles (bought used at 36K miles) (sold) '96 900T 50K miles (sold [major familysize increase]) '97 9000 CS 130K miles (still driving) '01 9-5 Aero + Abbott Racing ECU update 125K miles (crash test) '08 Turbo X 3K miles (still driving) I still have the '97 9000 and of course my X. Never once, in all my driving have I had any issues with anything in the turbo system except for a pinhole leak in a cooling line on my '88 900T. When I got my first turbo I was worried, but I don't even think about it any more. Barry Well my only note on turbo reliability is this …

Since 1988, when I got my first turbo (900 T), I’ve owned (or its been in my immediate family)

’88 900T 105K miles (sold)
’93 9000 CSE 115K miles (crash test)
’95 9000 Aero 110K miles (bought used at 36K miles) (sold)
’96 900T 50K miles (sold [major familysize increase])
’97 9000 CS 130K miles (still driving)
’01 9-5 Aero + Abbott Racing ECU update 125K miles (crash test)
’08 Turbo X 3K miles (still driving)

I still have the ’97 9000 and of course my X. Never once, in all my driving have I had any issues with anything in the turbo system except for a pinhole leak in a cooling line on my ’88 900T. When I got my first turbo I was worried, but I don’t even think about it any more.

Barry

]]> By: Bernard http://www.trollhattansaab.net/archives/2008/09/autosavant-considers-the-state-of-saab.html#comment-52594 Bernard Wed, 10 Sep 2008 14:45:03 +0000 http://www.trollhattansaab.net/?p=7914#comment-52594 "This is $2350 I wouldn’t have had to spend on a non-turbo-equipped vehicle" Don't be so sure. All brands have their faults, and $2350 isn't all that much these days. Try replacing control arms on an Audi for that price, or replacing run-flats on a Honda, or doing a brake job on an Infinity with the Brembo "upgrade". Even my mother-in-law's Chrysler minivan got quoted more than that for brakes and front suspension work the minute it was out of warranty... At least the turbo problem is a known issue, and it can be avoided by installing the latest vent kit and using good quality synthetic oil. Most companies don't offer update kits for cars that are out of warranty. “This is $2350 I wouldn’t have had to spend on a non-turbo-equipped vehicle”

Don’t be so sure. All brands have their faults, and $2350 isn’t all that much these days. Try replacing control arms on an Audi for that price, or replacing run-flats on a Honda, or doing a brake job on an Infinity with the Brembo “upgrade”. Even my mother-in-law’s Chrysler minivan got quoted more than that for brakes and front suspension work the minute it was out of warranty…

At least the turbo problem is a known issue, and it can be avoided by installing the latest vent kit and using good quality synthetic oil. Most companies don’t offer update kits for cars that are out of warranty.

]]> By: Danni http://www.trollhattansaab.net/archives/2008/09/autosavant-considers-the-state-of-saab.html#comment-52585 Danni Wed, 10 Sep 2008 10:18:58 +0000 http://www.trollhattansaab.net/?p=7914#comment-52585 Andrew - I see the safety aspec of Saab in a typical "the proof is in the pudding." Saab does not emphasize it much (we know as we have been living with 'em) though every competitor when reaching 5 stars (Euro NCAP), they ram this into your throat allowing the buying public to believe that Saab is not at the forefront of safety or worse, not on par. Typical examples are Hyundai, Renault, Kia and Peugeot in this part of the world. Yet, very few people would confirm that they would be buying the brigade of Audi/BMW/Mercedes for safety, seeming that this is a given. Should Saab therefore perhaps not be a given as well when it comes to safety. But then again, who will know or notice if they don't move that much metal as, after 30 years of turbocharging, the only thing a journalist worth his money cares to pen after testing a Saab is the word "quirky," or some non-sensical comment about the night panel or cup holders. Andrew – I see the safety aspec of Saab in a typical “the proof is in the pudding.” Saab does not emphasize it much (we know as we have been living with ‘em) though every competitor when reaching 5 stars (Euro NCAP), they ram this into your throat allowing the buying public to believe that Saab is not at the forefront of safety or worse, not on par. Typical examples are Hyundai, Renault, Kia and Peugeot in this part of the world. Yet, very few people would confirm that they would be buying the brigade of Audi/BMW/Mercedes for safety, seeming that this is a given. Should Saab therefore perhaps not be a given as well when it comes to safety. But then again, who will know or notice if they don’t move that much metal as, after 30 years of turbocharging, the only thing a journalist worth his money cares to pen after testing a Saab is the word “quirky,” or some non-sensical comment about the night panel or cup holders.

]]> By: Danni http://www.trollhattansaab.net/archives/2008/09/autosavant-considers-the-state-of-saab.html#comment-52584 Danni Wed, 10 Sep 2008 10:18:22 +0000 http://www.trollhattansaab.net/?p=7914#comment-52584 Andrew - I see the safety aspec of Saab in a typical "the proof is in the pudding." Saab does not emphasize it much (we know as we have been living with 'em) though every competitor when reaching 5 stars (), they ram this into your throat allowing the buying public to believe that Saab is not at the forefront of safety or worse, not on par. Typical examples are Hyundai, Renault, Kia and Peugeot in this part of the world. Yet, very few people would confirm that they would be buying the brigade of Audi/BMW/Mercedes for safety, seeming that this is a given. Should Saab therefore perhaps not be a given as well when it comes to safety. But then again, who will know or notice if they don't move that much metal as, after 30 years of turbocharging, the only thing a journalist worth his money cares to pen after testing a Saab is the word "quirky," or some non-sensical comment about the night panel or cup holders. Andrew – I see the safety aspec of Saab in a typical “the proof is in the pudding.” Saab does not emphasize it much (we know as we have been living with ‘em) though every competitor when reaching 5 stars (), they ram this into your throat allowing the buying public to believe that Saab is not at the forefront of safety or worse, not on par. Typical examples are Hyundai, Renault, Kia and Peugeot in this part of the world. Yet, very few people would confirm that they would be buying the brigade of Audi/BMW/Mercedes for safety, seeming that this is a given. Should Saab therefore perhaps not be a given as well when it comes to safety. But then again, who will know or notice if they don’t move that much metal as, after 30 years of turbocharging, the only thing a journalist worth his money cares to pen after testing a Saab is the word “quirky,” or some non-sensical comment about the night panel or cup holders.

]]> By: Danni http://www.trollhattansaab.net/archives/2008/09/autosavant-considers-the-state-of-saab.html#comment-52583 Danni Wed, 10 Sep 2008 10:06:07 +0000 http://www.trollhattansaab.net/?p=7914#comment-52583 Gripen - I guess I saw you coming from a mile off on this one, but I think we need a little bit more focussed research on turbo failures. Just to pre-empt: are the Volvo engines equipped with turbo chargers also failing at the rate of Saab? I was under the impression Volvo sells more cars then Saab and if turbocharged cars has a tendency to calve when not properly look after or the manufacturer's recommendations not adhered to when cutting off the engine after canning it or drive-stop-drive scenarious, then logically this problem should have surfaced in adequate numbers, right? I also had a turbo blow-out at 124,000km on my MY01 9-5 Aero, and it cost me a fortune had GM Southern Africa not come to the dinner table by providing the repairs at cost based on the 8-year engine warranty and the service schedule which had to be adhered to meticulously to qualify. Is this a necessary evil we have to live with when the engine is turbo'ed or are there inherent design constraints? Some layman (when acquiring the 9-5 wayback in 2002) told me to idle it at least for 15 minutes after a long drive and to let the engine run for 2-5 minutes in typical sindicated town traffic. I am now on my 2nd turbo at 224,000km. Does this hold water? Gripen – I guess I saw you coming from a mile off on this one, but I think we need a little bit more focussed research on turbo failures. Just to pre-empt: are the Volvo engines equipped with turbo chargers also failing at the rate of Saab? I was under the impression Volvo sells more cars then Saab and if turbocharged cars has a tendency to calve when not properly look after or the manufacturer’s recommendations not adhered to when cutting off the engine after canning it or drive-stop-drive scenarious, then logically this problem should have surfaced in adequate numbers, right?

I also had a turbo blow-out at 124,000km on my MY01 9-5 Aero, and it cost me a fortune had GM Southern Africa not come to the dinner table by providing the repairs at cost based on the 8-year engine warranty and the service schedule which had to be adhered to meticulously to qualify. Is this a necessary evil we have to live with when the engine is turbo’ed or are there inherent design constraints? Some layman (when acquiring the 9-5 wayback in 2002) told me to idle it at least for 15 minutes after a long drive and to let the engine run for 2-5 minutes in typical sindicated town traffic. I am now on my 2nd turbo at 224,000km. Does this hold water?

]]> By: mark_belfast http://www.trollhattansaab.net/archives/2008/09/autosavant-considers-the-state-of-saab.html#comment-52581 mark_belfast Wed, 10 Sep 2008 08:03:48 +0000 http://www.trollhattansaab.net/?p=7914#comment-52581 Andrew - spot on! Saab does not make enough of this, and for family purchases (which many if not most purchases are) demand highest safety these days - in the UK anyone would think Renault or Citroen were the 'safe' cars, not Saab! I am weighing up my options at the moment to replace my lease 9-3 in 3 months time and am horrified that an Audi A4, fully spec'd with lovely i-pod compatible sound systems, 3-split climate control etc etc actually charges £250 for rear airbags that we take for granted on the modern 9-3. Saab consistently rank highest in independent safety tests well above those other makes who might achieve 5stars in Encap, but in real life situations we know would crumple compared with a Saab. The SOC video seeked to place more emphasis on safety and hopefully this is a corporate recognition that this a selling point Saab shold return to. Andrew – spot on! Saab does not make enough of this, and for family purchases (which many if not most purchases are) demand highest safety these days – in the UK anyone would think Renault or Citroen were the ‘safe’ cars, not Saab!

I am weighing up my options at the moment to replace my lease 9-3 in 3 months time and am horrified that an Audi A4, fully spec’d with lovely i-pod compatible sound systems, 3-split climate control etc etc actually charges £250 for rear airbags that we take for granted on the modern 9-3.

Saab consistently rank highest in independent safety tests well above those other makes who might achieve 5stars in Encap, but in real life situations we know would crumple compared with a Saab.

The SOC video seeked to place more emphasis on safety and hopefully this is a corporate recognition that this a selling point Saab shold return to.

]]> By: Andrew Baculy http://www.trollhattansaab.net/archives/2008/09/autosavant-considers-the-state-of-saab.html#comment-52577 Andrew Baculy Tue, 09 Sep 2008 22:56:39 +0000 http://www.trollhattansaab.net/?p=7914#comment-52577 Volvo owns the reputation of safety, but Saab owns the safest cars!! Volvo owns the reputation of safety, but Saab owns the safest cars!!

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