Comments on: Saab improves in JD quality study (which sucks, by the way)

By: J.R.

J.R. — Sat, 09 Aug 2008 15:15:21 +0000

What i can say about a 67tkm 9-3 SC:
1. Excessive wind noise – yes
2. Noisy brakes – yes
3. Vehicle pulling to the left or right – not yet
4. Issues with the instrument panel/dashboard – yes
5. Excessive window fogging – yes

Compared with a 170tkm Citroen C5
(for example 5.: after a rainy nightshift (or below 0° celcius) the windows of the C5 are less foggy and are clear in seconds. The 9-3 take minutes to get clear.

But: the C5 has even more rattles ^^ (maybe due to his age…?)

By: edusaab

edusaab — Sat, 09 Aug 2008 10:24:13 +0000

Few months ago appeared a Consumer Report here in Spain from the Spanish Consumer Association, it was made in Spain, Portugal, Belgium, France and Italy, about 18000 people.

In this report the Consumer Association give different importance to every failure depending of the seriously and consecuences. The report takes in consideration 1 year membership of the car.(2006-2007)

this is the result;

1.- Mazda
2.- Toyota
3.- Honda
4.- Suzuki
5.- BMW
6.- Smart
7.- Saab
8.- Volvo
9.- Nissan
10.- Ford

By: sam

sam — Fri, 08 Aug 2008 21:35:44 +0000

Danni – I assume that the JD Powers study Swade refers to is confined to the USA, and maybe Canada, and doesn’t reflect a wider area of the world. But unless Saab and other manufacturers are building cars differently for the USA than for southern Africa, then the quality differences should carry through regardless of where the survey is taken.

I seem to have gotten myself in the position of defending the JD Powers survey, which wasn’t my intent. My only point is that JD Powers is a widely known and quoted study when it comes to auto quality in the USA, along with Consumer Reports (which I had forgotten about when I posted above). They may be flawed, they may be subjective, but they are influential, and they are what is out there in the public eye. So just blowing off the results of the study because it doesn’t put Saab in a good light really doesn’t do any good, because thousands or millions of people are looking at those studies and making judgments and decisions based on what they see there. In this case, perception is reality. Maybe some of the ratings are unfair and subjective, but all the other marques are judged by the same subjective standards.

By: Jesse

Jesse — Fri, 08 Aug 2008 17:39:20 +0000

@Fred

“The differences between autos and manuals, base or loaded, city or highway driven, light color or dark, garaged or not, good test-pilot or not all add up.”

I’d be very interested to know your findings with regards to these factors!

Highway miles and garaging seem obvious, but the rest don’t seem as obvious.

By: fred

fred — Fri, 08 Aug 2008 14:54:33 +0000

Working on mostly Saabs(but also seeing virtually everything else) for 30+ years now, neither Saabs, anything else, dealers, mechanics or owners are created equal. The differences between autos and manuals, base or loaded, city or highway driven, light color or dark, garaged or not, good test-pilot or not all add up. Dealers…some good, some not so much, and many multi-line would rather sell you a BMW or whatever. And GM/SaabUSA seem like they couldnt care less. But this JDPower thing really only muddies the quality question.

By: JBG

JBG — Fri, 08 Aug 2008 14:27:47 +0000

In the US, the magazine Consumer Reports carries as much, if not more, weight with regards to reliability. In 2008, for the first time, Saab got ‘best picks’ for both the 9-3 and 9-5. They showed significant improvement in the 9-3 from 03 to 07 (almost a perfect score in 07). By comparison, not one Merc model was selected as a ‘best pick’ and only the Volvo s60 was selected from the Volvo line up.

By: SaabLance

SaabLance — Fri, 08 Aug 2008 13:32:21 +0000

Any survey that gives equal weight to subjective opinion,e.g excessive wind noise,and objective fact,e.g the ABS module had to be replaced at 90 days….is too flawed to matter.

By: Brian Mills

Brian Mills — Fri, 08 Aug 2008 11:10:55 +0000

This is so not waht I have found, overall there has been nothing from me getting a second Saab now. Either I should buy a lottery ticket OR USA got a few bad batches of cars. Rule #1 never buy the 1 run of new model
ie)2003 9-3SS problems are bound. Give it about 2 more years and this model will jump though the roof in this report.

By: Danni

Danni — Fri, 08 Aug 2008 08:32:43 +0000

Sam – I think you need to keep in mind that the JD Power and Associates is for a specific region or country. In South Africa, Honda in most of its variants scores either 1 or 2 (I have a MY08 Civic 4-door sedan VXi with the 1.8i-VTEC engine) and it was the Car of the Year in 2007 and is the leader of its segment according to JD Power & Associates. Saab does not feature at all as GM Southern Africa does not move metal in Saab guise above 100 to be assessed. I believe there are different JD Power and Associates ratings for mainland Europe and the UK, right? So before generalizing the comments on this board as either being thumb-sucked, you need to look at the global arena and address your comments in that specific context. Is it possible that the 9-3 was a bad engineered car prior to the facelift of MY07 and hence the deserved beating it got in the reliability stakes? Was this applicable to mainland Europe, the UK and the USA? Funny, in Southern Africa, half of the problems experienced by owners in the UK, mainland Europe and USA does not exist here. Similar to the engine sludge problem in the B205 low pressure turbo engines (and this primarily due to wrong oil or additives used). In total, 4-5 B205L engines were affected. On a scale of 100, where does that rank?. Not a single 9-5 with the B235R engine sold in Southern Africa ever had something of that nature (I checked my facts before penning this). In Namibia, there were 4 9-5′s circa 2001. I had two (both Aero), a government official the 9-5 Arc and a friend another Aero. My turbo went at 124,000km (the maintenance plan had just expired at 105,000km and I did not take out the extended maintenance plan to 150,000km) and yet GM Southern Africa replaced the sub-assembly at cost price and offered me to pay the other 50%. Apart from that, no single hiccup. The other 9-5 are rock solid and are soldiering on into the horizon.

By: Sven van Dijkman

Sven van Dijkman — Fri, 08 Aug 2008 08:18:38 +0000

One point of hope is Cadillac (# 3!). We’re all family, right? So hand over those keys to the success with “JD Powers ratings” to Saab, mind you?
to “Caddy-lover” Swade

I agree with Swade that the whole set up of this rating is questionable. Weren’t Saab and Volvo a couple of decades ago in the top 10 of this list?

Why some hit the news and others less is a good question too. The Swedish insurance company Folksam, one of Sweden’s leading insurers, publicizes its annual report/list of cars based on real life injuries/deaths. In those lists a Saab (9000/9-5) for many years has been best or at least in the top 3. Real life safety is what counts for me. Not a faulty CD player. Is the Folksam list reported in the US?