You probably hate OSX because you’re so familiar with XP or something. Try using Unix or Linux and then try OSX again. Familiarity breeds contempt you know? BTW I have a fair bit of contempt for Microsoft and the same goes for GM I guess.

I HATE OS. HATE it. I can’t stand it. Every time I use it, I hate it a little more.

It doesn’t help that I think Steve Jobs is a huge tool.

I am SO confident that I hate Macs and love PCs. My point was that even though I use PCs, it’s not because I’m following the mainstream crowd.

Anyway, now that that’s out of the way, you’re totally right about Saab commonality in Sweden creating a completely different market.

“I’ve made my personal choice to hate Macs and use Windows, regardless of what people tell me to do.”

To hate something you don’t have or do is a proof of that you don’t have enought confidence in your own choice.

And yes, I absolutely agree with the fact that Saab customers in the US probably have a distinct demographic profile and a different one from an average Saab owner in Sweden. What I wanted to point out is that it is hard to find a common demographic profile for Saab in Sweden since they are so common. And that is the reality that Saab is born out of. That is part of the history and tradition that shaped Saab, and had certain people at Saab make decisions that shaped Saab to what it is today. If they had decided to build a car for an upper middle class group of buyers in the US, then maybe Saab had looked completely different today. Maybe they will do that, and maybe that it what it’s take to attract more buyers.

I’m kidding of course!

My family is middle middle class (if you average it out, my mom’s side and my dad’s side are quite different). Everyone on my mom’s side said the same thing about my Saab when I got it: “That’s a money car”. My dad’s side, however, all liked the Saab because it was a nice car, they didn’t even consider how much the thing cost to keep running, because they all have a lot of money lying around.

lance, I know you weren’t trying to draw class lines, but I was in a bad mood yesterday so I read it that way. Sorry about that. Still, however, Saabs are expensive here, whether you’re talking about buying a new one or keeping an old one running. People like my mom’s side of my family just can’t afford it.

ctm, like I said, I was talking about America, I know Saab’s image is a lot different in Europe.

On a side note, I have never liked Citroens, but I’m not European. Still, I think they’re ugly. There’s a fine line between odd but lovable styling and polarizing, weird styling. Old Citroens are the Scion xBs of Europe. Of course, I’ve never driven one, and I’m sure how they drive is a big part of why so many people seem to like them despite their styling.

Don’t get me started on Apple. I’ve made my personal choice to hate Macs and use Windows, regardless of what people tell me to do. The only reason I put up with my slow, buggy iPod is because my car stereo has an iPod input. If it weren’t for that, I’d have tossed it in the trash a long time ago.

Background: middle class/upper middle class (technical management) with household income 3 times US average. Wife wanted a larger car then her ’02 Nissan Sentra SE-R Spec-V, I don’t like fat SUV’s or large cars, I want small/fast/efficient/unique.

Impressions before car search of saab: Expensive, quirky cars. I didn’t even consider them, quoted lease prices seemed higher than BMW and others.

We drove several small suv’s/crossovers all of which I hated. To much body roll, to high off the ground, to little feedback to the driver. We then started to look at stationwagons to get more of a car driving feel with the extra space. Here in the US you don’t have a lot of choices in wagons. We tried to find a magnum SRT8 wagon but couldn’t, we then test drove the 9-3 combi.

It was quick, it had reasonable body roll, it had enough space, the seats were to die for, it had the safety ratings, it’s great in snow, and it’s relatively exclusive. It was acceptable to me (not ideal at all since it’s not a two-seater and isn’t a convertable) and the wife liked it.

Anyway the wife had surgery shortly after which didn’t go as well as planned so I drove the new 9-3 for about 2 months which was a bad thing. I ended up liking it more and more, it just needed more power and a tighter suspension. Finally she went back to work and I started having 9-3 withdrawl. So I broke down and drove a 9-3 Aero sedan. While the handling isn’t spectacular and the power isn’t spectacular it was better than the 9-3 and closer to what I wanted while still having the same advantages as the combi. I would have liked the Aero convertable but an extra $15K is not what I call reasonable for losing the roof.

After adding BSR stage 1 the power is more where it should be.

So basically I got more or less what I wanted, unique cars, reasonable performance, excellent safety, reasonable size and interior space. And no, I don’t golf(it’s not a sport damn-it!) and would never buy a bor-yota.

Great feedback there, Chris. This is why there’s a saying about Saabs that people who test drive them usually buy one. Thanks for writing in. – SW

I wonder if this is gonna be a problem for Saab when going more premium. I don’t think the tradition in Trollhättan could be described as “upper middle class” (even if lot’s of them are just that). The tradition is to do something different; to do what you really believe in, to engineer something great, and wanting the customers to understand that. If the customers are white- or blue-collar workers is irrelevant. Apple was the same. And companies like that will go into trouble because they don’t want to care about what they think are superficial trends. It’s not that their products are wrong – it’s about the rest of the world not yet understanding them. Is that gonna work, or does Saab has to have a clear demographic goal to grow?

Today, Saab is still something that bond people together. Despite the fact that 10% of all cars registered in Sweden are Saab’s, there is still a lot of unspoken and mutual understanding between owners. Exactly the same thing that there was between Mac users (that is about to change now). A Saab owner is someone who makes his/her own personal choice without just following the mainstream. And when times are bad for the brand, we are even more willing to try to explain why we drive Saab. Just a few weeks ago, a friend at work happen to see the background wallpaper at my iPod Touch: the Saab logo. “Oh, you drive Saab? Me too!” (And yes, of course, he too had been using Macs for decades – lot’s of them at my work.) Imagine that you have a key ring with the Toyota logo. You think anybody that happens to see that will say “Hey, I drive Toyota too!”?

I was laughing when Lance mentioned the new Citroën C5. How I have looked at the pictures of that car! I agree with the word “brilliant”. If there were no Saab’s around, that would probably be the main target on my radar today. Is Citroën another thing that is common for Saab freaks (in Europe)?

Reference your comment “I know who drives Saabs: Upper middle class people who can afford them”

Most people have shares in a glider- which costs the same as a a few meals or what others spend on beer and fags in a couple of months!

Instead of beer and fags, i spend the money on something else.

Some rich folk do own their gliders -but most people have part shares that cost hundreds of pounds a year -or maybe a thousand +.

A winch launch for a glider is about £7.50 a time and an aero tow is about £20, a time. That is less than people spend in Mc Donalds or down the pub in a night.

I don’t own a yacht,but again some have shared ownership at a few grand a share.

And its not a class thing, class is not relevant to flying skill or income. I have a rich mate in a mansion and I have a best mate who is a dustbin man. Both glide and or own motorbikes. The ‘bikes cost far more than the glider ever does .

No class wars here mate. We are all different but equal under the sky.

Lance

There’s no way on earth that this car should have passed and I was just lucky that on that day there was a man who appreciated the Capri for the car it was and not just a form of transportation.
Reading lance’s thoughts on perceived quality has made we wonder, what separates manufacturers from the cars they build today and the things they liked to call cars from the 80′s.
I have fond memories of my Ford Capri despite all of it’s downfalls and I’m sure you have similar memories of your previous cars. I’m sure you will pretty much agree that it didn’t matter what badge was on the front, cars from that era were in general plagued with the same problems. Corrosion, not always starting, sometimes stopping when you didn’t want it to. Locks freezing electric’s failing, the list goes on but all these little quirks gave our cars a character, they had soul and we often look back on them and smile.

As the auto-industry entered the 21st Century manufacturers were driven to make their cars more reliable, some companies have achieved that but at the expense of a lifeless lump of plastic and metal which we call Toyota. It is undeniable that Toyota’s are pretty much bullet proof but I just don’t get the right vibe sat in front of a load of plastic where a cut out wheelie-bin would have a more ‘soft-touch’ feel about it. For the rest of the market place reliability has been improved dramatically along with interior quality which ever make you wish to choose. Levels of quality and reliability have increased hugely since the 80′s. However; despite that Audi’s will still get the odd Particle-Filter clog-up or a Mercedes with get the odd electric failure but most cars that I can think of have faired better than any GM derived vehicle. Why is a 2.0TDI Passat with it’s out dated PD technology better than a 1.9 Vectra with it’s superior Common-rail, higher output diesel engine. The Pumpe-Duse in the VW was plagued with problems, yet people still bought them. The interior in most VW’s, although clean is just a wash of bland grey plastic. Vauxhall on the other hand use a variety of trims to break up the canvas. Ford has come on leaps and bounds and the new Mondeo has a very Premium feel but I remember our demo having a stroke one morning and the whole left-side of the car’s electric’s stopped working. All cars today are reliable but the car they still have the odd quirk thanks to the mini-computers that are supposed to make them work. JD might have their reliability list but some of those statistics are made up of perceived quality vehicles, where the owner will not rest until the problem is resolved and the Kia owner who is quite happy to live with the niggle.

We all read the odd motoring mag, some of us subscribe and to be honest need we bother. It’s all very well knowing what new cars are coming but when it comes to comparison tests we can usually place the cars in winning order before we get to the journalists verdict. For the past 10 years we’ve had German cars rammed down our throats that anyone acceptable to today’s marketing psychology will feel compelled to buy what they have been brain washed into thinking is good. Not that a VW or a BMW isn’t good, just that they are not as good as car magazines make them out to be. They are not infallible. Maybe the Saab owner is someone who wishes to make the statement that they are not a lamb, that they are not acceptable to the hypnotic advertising we call a retail market. You can complain your Saab in unreliable, yet in reality other manufacturers are have the same problems. I choose to accept my car’s quirks because life it too short to spend an existence in a cheap plastic infested cabin, driven by a cynically engineered motor with the soul of one of those flat packed animals we see lying in the middle of the road.