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Saab used to frame its adverts to appeal to the ‘thinking’ demographic. Saab positioned itself as being away from the mass market – as being something different – but never in a snobby way.
I remember those adverts – “Saab properly designed and correctly engineered” – or some such lovely, blinkered, pompus truisms… I always preferred – “Saab – go swift, go Safe – go Saab!”
So for a while Saab’s were ‘alternative’ (whatever that is) and so were many of the owners. But it was a static market sector and a navel gazing demographic. And surely, anyone with an IQ higher than that of a Kia Karens would aspire to be a ‘thinker’. We are all thinkers – aren’t we?
On the eastern seaboard of the USA, there was a time in the late 1970s through to the late 1980s and perhaps just beyond, when choosing a Saab was an intellectual statement – and why not? I would have bought a Saab rather than some floppy piece of American mid-size tin with the torsional rigidity of a doughnut – or a Honda.
But the Saab-snob thing happened and the demographic got stuck with tweed jackets, elbow patches and the Sunday papers, amongst other uniforms.
Things changed, and across the USA the Saab buyer base expanded beyond the confines of the conceited: The Turbo stuff did that – oh and Bob Sinclair – who really understood what Saab’s mojo was.
In the UK and Europe, Saab also escaped from its obscure little niche and became a wider brand – just as Subaru latterly did.
By the late 1990s, Saab was a brand favoured by farmers, the Gay community, architects, pilots, teachers, good old boys who also liked Subarus (weird, that), South London drug dealers, and a vast spread across the social science strata.
So Saab became a diverse brand, long before corporate-speak jumped on the bandwagon and contaminated it all with the inane, valueless bullshit bingo that most politicians and business people now spout when they are trying to be cleverer than you and me by “going forwards” – which they are not of course.
Yet, and it’s a big yet, there is still a brand resistance to Saab. Maybe the 9-4x will change that; maybe the new 9-5 will change that. Maybe it will take something more?
All this occurred to me at the weekend when I visited my two favourite places – the yacht club and the gliding club.
Down at the marina, it was wall-to-wall Volvos. When you consider how much Volvo spend on sponsoring ocean race yachting, it’s a good return on their investment. I saw one new Saab, a 9-5, one of the massively discounted ones Saab UK have been punting off, which Swade and I have both covered in these pages before. Oh, and a smattering of Audis which were all blinged up and which had a common theme of worn out, scrubbed shouldered front tyres on new cars with just a few thousand miles on the clock.
But Volvo – notably the XC 70 and V70 ruled the roost – moored up like an America’s Cup squadron: Swedish car meant Volvo – not Saab.
Next day, I went to my other ‘home’: the gliding club. Now to me, Saab should be sponsoring all things flying and especially gliding – because the ethos is the same. ‘The Saab European Gliding Championships’ – sounds nice, sells cars. If only…
There were 6 Saabs in the car park, not including mine and another one of those Saab UK 9-5 wagons for £19,995 – nice. Sadly, there were about 25 Volkswagens and several Audis. Interestingly, there was only one Volvo.
So VW was the glider pilots’ brand of choice. Why?
I thought back to the 1980s and remembered that the gliding club car park used to be full of Saab 900s, many of them being turbos.
So, I wondered, why the exodus to VW? But at least there were no Honda un-Civics and Daewoo Desperanzas present.
The answer was reliability, or maybe that should be perceived reliability, because on chatting to the owners, their VWs had not been that reliable.
“Come on,” I said, “You lot live for free flight – ultimate aerodynamic performance and engineering design, surely Saab is the best example of that in a mass market car.”
To man, and a woman, the answer came back: “It was, but is it true any more? Aren’t they tarted up Vauxhalls now?” They asked. And then added that: “plenty of other cars now offer safety and design”.
So I went through explaining how their Volkswagens also lived as “tarted up” Skodas, Audis, and Seats and vice-versa. That shut them up, but it did not alter the fact that the GM issue is still latent in the minds of car buyers.
Which it is why is so important that GM makes Saabs that can be believed in.
On the way home I drove past the golf club and got a shock. There were two predominate brands smeared across the Pringle jumpered, diamond patterned car park: Lexus (as you would expect) and wait for it, Saab!
And there was an outbreak of that horrible disease – Hyundai-Kia-burnyourmoneyitis. This terrible condition affects the brain and makes people buy cars that appear much better value than their competitors, yet which then shed most of their value and residual worth faster than crap coming out of a cat. And against which there is no known cure other than a lobotomy. Given the appalling seats found in such so-called cars, some form of welcome paralysis to the brain’s hippocampus via the spinal cord may actually take place before the warranty runs out.
Anyway, what on earth were the golfers doing in a sea of Saabs? Where did that creep into the history of the Saab buyer base? it was news to me, that’s for sure.
I did not dare stop in case I caught Hyundai-Kia-itis and had to go the clinic.
But it proved the point that Swade made a week or two ago – what and where, is Saab’s mojo? Have they lost it like Citroen did and how Renault continues to do (that is did in the past tense for Citroen. Have you seen their new C5? Brilliant).
Or is Saab just suffering from confusion? Clarity is needed and quick-fixes like the Saab-Subaru range were never going to cure the patient.
At school, my geography teacher had a Saab 99. Not long afterwards I bought my first car – a Saab 99, followed by a Citroen GS because it had design (and rust). But I never knew anyone who played Golf and bought a Saab. They were all Jaguar, BMW, and then Lexus men: that was their so-called mojo.
All of which proves that choosing a Saab is all in the mind. Being in a Saab, being a Saab owner is about how it makes you feel, and yes, what you want to say about yourself – but in an Alfa Romeo kind of way, not in a BMW or Audi merchant banker kind of way.
But it is the message from Saab that creates what we think. We do not spontaneously think of Saab – we see a Saab, we drive a Saab, and we make a Saab choice. But who are we?
I thought we were a diverse bunch of people, whom, however different in our belief systems and lifestyle choices, loved Saab design and Saab driving and flying had little to do with it – unless you did or do.
But now I am confused and unsure, fighting the Saab addiction, and may need Lithium – or is it Librium? For what is going on when Golfers buy Saabs? I can handle my vicar owning a Saab – but not my accountant, who has a golfing handicap. And will he need a four wheel drive Saab 9-4x to negotiate the car park when it rains? Probably.
I have got a mate who has a different skin colour to mine – which is irrelevant, except that his roots are not European so you might expect him to like a car that echoes his experiences and cultural influences. But he is very rich and has a Saab and a Bristol.
Now that is free thinking.
Go figure, Saab.
——
Lance Cole is a writer living in England and has penned several books on automobiles and aviation. Saab enthusiasts would know him best for the book Saab 99 and 900: The Complete Story, which is an excellent volume and available for sale at the TS Shop. At the bottom of the left sidebar you’ll see a list of authors here at TS. Click Lance’s name to read all of his contributed pieces.
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14 responses so far ↓
1 J
// Jul 25, 2008 at 1:30 am
Brilliant writing!
“Hyundai-Kia-burnyourmoneyitis” should be entered into
this year’s Dictionaries & medical journals.
I never understood why so many people drove
those disposable cars, until now.
2 MarkS
// Jul 25, 2008 at 2:01 am
Saab’s product lineup was excellent and more diverse before the GM meddling began, but nobody got the message out to the public with any degree of consistency. Volvo has always touted it’s safety engineering, BMW supposedly has “The Ultimate driving machine”. Saab’s ad slogans have changed so often that people don’t have a clue what the brand is about. Saab ads have become more shallow and uninformative over the years as well. In the ’80’s, a typical Saab ad would showcase the brand’s best features and illustrate how they bested the competition. Today we have BFJ and “get ready for takeoff” and that sort of nonsense, and Saab’s excellent 3 and 5-door body styles have been dumbed-down to run with the mainstream just as other manufacturers have begun to embrace the designs. Saabs of the past combined seemingly incompatible traits in a successful way-excellent safety and great road feel, great power and fuel economy, sleek design and utility, small exterior and spacious interior. Saab needs to get back to this design philosophy, and then get the message out clearly and consistently. GM can not expect Saab to be all things to all people. That’s why they build Chevys. Let Saab get back to being Saab and tell the world about it!
3 Ying
// Jul 25, 2008 at 3:52 am
Perceived image is a stronger factor than most people realise when they choose cars.
E.G. in the UK, VW had always been seen as a cheaper alternative to the German 3 (and semi posh), and is reputed to be reliabled and well engineered. It does not matter tha Ford Focus had the Golf beat in quality, people, when talking about cars, will generally mention how VW is better built than Fords.
While in the US, this concept of VW being an posh car does not exsist, and look at their sales scores. On the other hand, despite Audi being dressed up VWs, people are flooding to it because of the posh(er) image.
On that respect, Saab will ALWAYS have a baggae that drags it’s legs called GM (or Vauxhall). Oh, and it’s old image of being ‘quirky’.
Now, I’m not saying perceived brand image is the be and end all in deciding factor when people choose cars, the actual quality of the cars of course matters. But let me elaborate
For a car maker:
- If you have great reputation (BMW) and builds very good cars then your will laugh all the way to your bank (Mini).
- If you have great reputation and builds cars just ‘good enough’ then people will still floor to your dealership. (VWs, in UK, Toyotas, Nissans)
- If you had a great reputation but your cars sucked – for many years, then watch out, your reputation will slowly erode away but as long as you don’t make a fatal mistake, it will still bring in buyers aspired to have a perceived good car (Benz in 90’s).
- If your reputation is shoddy and your cars are average, you better offer price advantages, and you might just cling to life (GM).
- If your reputation ain’t that good, but your cars are actually above average, your sales might still get taken away by the other guy with the better name (Ford vs VW, in UK)
- If your reputation is tainted by your parent company, and you want to get out of that circle of doom, then you’d BETTER build an amazing car, equal or better than your competitors, and/ or do it in a clever unique design, and offer it at a better value, then youstill have a chance to regain your name.
Saab better make cars that are better thair it’s competitors in order to change people’s perception of it’s brand image. Otherwise it will always be a tarted up Vauxhall.
The day people see Vauxhall as an entry level, value priced Saab derivitive, is the day you can say they have succeeded.
GM/Saab has a long, hard battle ahead of them, they need to build great cars, consistently, for years, to turn their reputation around. Thing is, do they have the time/ money?
Oh, one more thing about perceived reputation. When I bought my 9-5, my colleagues (UK) all mentioned they think Saab (used to) make good cars, but when pushed to ask if they’d buy one, most say the thought never crossed their mind, because it’s too ‘weird’.
Oh the price for doing things differently…
4 Markac
// Jul 25, 2008 at 11:19 am
Psychosis? Does that mean we need to be psychotic to buy a Saab? Do we really need to lose contact with reality first? I might be a bit weird owning a Saab, but truly I’m not that different!
I remember about 20 years ago walking into a Motoring bookshop and ordering a Saab book. The store owner asked me if I was an engineer or a technician because he thought that they were the only people interested in Saabs. Actually I am a technician!
I think the perception of Saab has changed somewhat this decade, but to some extent Saab has lost it’s ethos too. Making SUVs for instance, this seems to be the antithesis of what Saab is about.
Saab used to promote practicality, performance, good fuel consumption and not conforming to what it’s competitors were selling, but above all it was safety conscious. Buying a Saab was like buying Volvo safety but with a whole lot more fun and some quirky individuality thrown in for good measure.
But SUVs, I don’t know…
GM has been milking the SUV ‘cash cow’ for at least the past decade and has managed to drag Saab onto the bandwagon, first with the US only 9-7x and soon with the 9-4x on the world stage. Problem is that ‘cash cow’ now has a bad case of Foot and Mouth (or with GM, should that be foot in mouth?) and it may prove to be terminal. It’s an area where Saab can’t afford to be and should never have entered. Crossover cars like the excellent 9-3X Crossover Coupe concept yes, but it should have left SUVs to other players.
When I have passengers in my OG9-3 and I point out a newer Saab, I usually get the response “is that a Saab? I didn’t recognize it”. This mostly happens with the 9-3SS and slightly less with the 9-5. Some people even say, “I didn’t know they still made cars!”. Then they’d feel a little sheepish and apologize because they were riding in one!
So Saab’s brand perception is very low at the moment and that needs to be worked on. I don’t think there is any quick fix, but getting back to it’s core concepts like individuality, practicality, fun, innovation and safety will go a long way. Blindly just copying it’s competitors isn’t Saab and it will never work for them.
5 rogan2915
// Jul 25, 2008 at 1:53 pm
Great piece of writing. Reminds me of Clarkson.
6 Jeff
// Jul 25, 2008 at 2:50 pm
I know who drives Saabs: Upper middle class people who can afford them. The type of people who go to yacht clubs and gliding clubs. I know if I had the kind of money and free time required to own a yacht and flit around in the wind on a glorified kite, I’d probably be able to afford to not only buy a Saab but keep it running, too.
7 WooDz
// Jul 25, 2008 at 6:06 pm
My first car was a Ford Capri. Is was old, second hand and really had not much going for it. It had wind-up windows, Worn out cloth interior no power steering, 4 speed box and a manual choke. The door locks would freeze up in the winter and the only way to enter the car was via the boot. For all it’s down falls, the car was just a joy to drive. On one particular day a bit of a spontaneous race started between a VW Gti, OPEL Kadet and myself in the Capri. Well race isn’t the right word, it was more the the F1 procession we now endure on Sundays. At a set of traffic lights by coincidence we were all turning left and to this day I can still remember the look on the faces of people in the cars waiting at the traffic lights, as we all screeched around this corner with me bringing up the rear in a gorgeous power-slide.
I remember taking the car for it’s MOT and being worried sick that either it was going to cost me a fortune to repair or my poor baby was not going to pass. Since I had owned the car which was about 8 months, I had replaced the battery, the brakes, the clutch and even had a new radiator put in. Keeping this car on the road was an expensive job for a 20 year old with a basic income. Most of my car repairs were a result of me breaking down somewhere which often left me walking home usually between the twilight hours. So you can understand why I thought this creature would have to be ‘put out to grass’ as the vehicle inspector lifted my car on the ramps to check underneath.
I almost fainted when he shook his head at the under belly of the car and said with a sigh “Aye, they don’t make cars like this anymore…. She’s passed.”
There’s no way on earth that this car should have passed and I was just lucky that on that day there was a man who appreciated the Capri for the car it was and not just a form of transportation.
Reading lance’s thoughts on perceived quality has made we wonder, what separates manufacturers from the cars they build today and the things they liked to call cars from the 80’s.
I have fond memories of my Ford Capri despite all of it’s downfalls and I’m sure you have similar memories of your previous cars. I’m sure you will pretty much agree that it didn’t matter what badge was on the front, cars from that era were in general plagued with the same problems. Corrosion, not always starting, sometimes stopping when you didn’t want it to. Locks freezing electric’s failing, the list goes on but all these little quirks gave our cars a character, they had soul and we often look back on them and smile.
As the auto-industry entered the 21st Century manufacturers were driven to make their cars more reliable, some companies have achieved that but at the expense of a lifeless lump of plastic and metal which we call Toyota. It is undeniable that Toyota’s are pretty much bullet proof but I just don’t get the right vibe sat in front of a load of plastic where a cut out wheelie-bin would have a more ’soft-touch’ feel about it. For the rest of the market place reliability has been improved dramatically along with interior quality which ever make you wish to choose. Levels of quality and reliability have increased hugely since the 80’s. However; despite that Audi’s will still get the odd Particle-Filter clog-up or a Mercedes with get the odd electric failure but most cars that I can think of have faired better than any GM derived vehicle. Why is a 2.0TDI Passat with it’s out dated PD technology better than a 1.9 Vectra with it’s superior Common-rail, higher output diesel engine. The Pumpe-Duse in the VW was plagued with problems, yet people still bought them. The interior in most VW’s, although clean is just a wash of bland grey plastic. Vauxhall on the other hand use a variety of trims to break up the canvas. Ford has come on leaps and bounds and the new Mondeo has a very Premium feel but I remember our demo having a stroke one morning and the whole left-side of the car’s electric’s stopped working. All cars today are reliable but the car they still have the odd quirk thanks to the mini-computers that are supposed to make them work. JD might have their reliability list but some of those statistics are made up of perceived quality vehicles, where the owner will not rest until the problem is resolved and the Kia owner who is quite happy to live with the niggle.
We all read the odd motoring mag, some of us subscribe and to be honest need we bother. It’s all very well knowing what new cars are coming but when it comes to comparison tests we can usually place the cars in winning order before we get to the journalists verdict. For the past 10 years we’ve had German cars rammed down our throats that anyone acceptable to today’s marketing psychology will feel compelled to buy what they have been brain washed into thinking is good. Not that a VW or a BMW isn’t good, just that they are not as good as car magazines make them out to be. They are not infallible. Maybe the Saab owner is someone who wishes to make the statement that they are not a lamb, that they are not acceptable to the hypnotic advertising we call a retail market. You can complain your Saab in unreliable, yet in reality other manufacturers are have the same problems. I choose to accept my car’s quirks because life it too short to spend an existence in a cheap plastic infested cabin, driven by a cynically engineered motor with the soul of one of those flat packed animals we see lying in the middle of the road.
8 lance
// Jul 25, 2008 at 6:39 pm
Jeff
Reference your comment “I know who drives Saabs: Upper middle class people who can afford them”
Most people have shares in a glider- which costs the same as a a few meals or what others spend on beer and fags in a couple of months!
Instead of beer and fags, i spend the money on something else.
Some rich folk do own their gliders -but most people have part shares that cost hundreds of pounds a year -or maybe a thousand +.
A winch launch for a glider is about £7.50 a time and an aero tow is about £20, a time. That is less than people spend in Mc Donalds or down the pub in a night.
I don’t own a yacht,but again some have shared ownership at a few grand a share.
And its not a class thing, class is not relevant to flying skill or income. I have a rich mate in a mansion and I have a best mate who is a dustbin man. Both glide and or own motorbikes. The ‘bikes cost far more than the glider ever does .
No class wars here mate. We are all different but equal under the sky.
Lance
9 ctm
// Jul 25, 2008 at 7:58 pm
As a Swede, it’s interesting to read all those references to Saab as being a car for an “upper middle class” or whatever. If there is one thing that Saab has never been in Sweden, it’s snobby. I remember being a small kid back in the seventies. Rich people had Volvos or Mercedes because they were big. Saab was a smaller car. With the 900 that somewhat changed, but the 900 was not about upper class or luxury – it was about (as Apple put it) “thinking different”. Fun to drive, but yet practical and timeless.
I wonder if this is gonna be a problem for Saab when going more premium. I don’t think the tradition in Trollhättan could be described as “upper middle class” (even if lot’s of them are just that). The tradition is to do something different; to do what you really believe in, to engineer something great, and wanting the customers to understand that. If the customers are white- or blue-collar workers is irrelevant. Apple was the same. And companies like that will go into trouble because they don’t want to care about what they think are superficial trends. It’s not that their products are wrong – it’s about the rest of the world not yet understanding them. Is that gonna work, or does Saab has to have a clear demographic goal to grow?
Today, Saab is still something that bond people together. Despite the fact that 10% of all cars registered in Sweden are Saab’s, there is still a lot of unspoken and mutual understanding between owners. Exactly the same thing that there was between Mac users (that is about to change now). A Saab owner is someone who makes his/her own personal choice without just following the mainstream. And when times are bad for the brand, we are even more willing to try to explain why we drive Saab. Just a few weeks ago, a friend at work happen to see the background wallpaper at my iPod Touch: the Saab logo. “Oh, you drive Saab? Me too!” (And yes, of course, he too had been using Macs for decades – lot’s of them at my work.) Imagine that you have a key ring with the Toyota logo. You think anybody that happens to see that will say “Hey, I drive Toyota too!”?
I was laughing when Lance mentioned the new Citroën C5. How I have looked at the pictures of that car! I agree with the word “brilliant”. If there were no Saab’s around, that would probably be the main target on my radar today. Is Citroën another thing that is common for Saab freaks (in Europe)?
10 chris
// Jul 26, 2008 at 12:58 am
As a first time buyer this year I can answer some of these questions.
Background: middle class/upper middle class (technical management) with household income 3 times US average. Wife wanted a larger car then her ‘02 Nissan Sentra SE-R Spec-V, I don’t like fat SUV’s or large cars, I want small/fast/efficient/unique.
Impressions before car search of saab: Expensive, quirky cars. I didn’t even consider them, quoted lease prices seemed higher than BMW and others.
We drove several small suv’s/crossovers all of which I hated. To much body roll, to high off the ground, to little feedback to the driver. We then started to look at stationwagons to get more of a car driving feel with the extra space. Here in the US you don’t have a lot of choices in wagons. We tried to find a magnum SRT8 wagon but couldn’t, we then test drove the 9-3 combi.
It was quick, it had reasonable body roll, it had enough space, the seats were to die for, it had the safety ratings, it’s great in snow, and it’s relatively exclusive. It was acceptable to me (not ideal at all since it’s not a two-seater and isn’t a convertable) and the wife liked it.
Anyway the wife had surgery shortly after which didn’t go as well as planned so I drove the new 9-3 for about 2 months which was a bad thing. I ended up liking it more and more, it just needed more power and a tighter suspension. Finally she went back to work and I started having 9-3 withdrawl. So I broke down and drove a 9-3 Aero sedan. While the handling isn’t spectacular and the power isn’t spectacular it was better than the 9-3 and closer to what I wanted while still having the same advantages as the combi. I would have liked the Aero convertable but an extra $15K is not what I call reasonable for losing the roof.
After adding BSR stage 1 the power is more where it should be.
So basically I got more or less what I wanted, unique cars, reasonable performance, excellent safety, reasonable size and interior space. And no, I don’t golf(it’s not a sport damn-it!) and would never buy a bor-yota.
Great feedback there, Chris. This is why there’s a saying about Saabs that people who test drive them usually buy one. Thanks for writing in. – SW
11 Jeff
// Jul 26, 2008 at 2:36 am
lance and ctm: I’m talking about newer Saabs here in America, I don’t know anything about European demographics besides the fact that they’re snobbier, thinner, and smellier than American demographics.
I’m kidding of course!
My family is middle middle class (if you average it out, my mom’s side and my dad’s side are quite different). Everyone on my mom’s side said the same thing about my Saab when I got it: “That’s a money car”. My dad’s side, however, all liked the Saab because it was a nice car, they didn’t even consider how much the thing cost to keep running, because they all have a lot of money lying around.
lance, I know you weren’t trying to draw class lines, but I was in a bad mood yesterday so I read it that way. Sorry about that. Still, however, Saabs are expensive here, whether you’re talking about buying a new one or keeping an old one running. People like my mom’s side of my family just can’t afford it.
ctm, like I said, I was talking about America, I know Saab’s image is a lot different in Europe.
On a side note, I have never liked Citroens, but I’m not European. Still, I think they’re ugly. There’s a fine line between odd but lovable styling and polarizing, weird styling. Old Citroens are the Scion xBs of Europe. Of course, I’ve never driven one, and I’m sure how they drive is a big part of why so many people seem to like them despite their styling.
Don’t get me started on Apple. I’ve made my personal choice to hate Macs and use Windows, regardless of what people tell me to do. The only reason I put up with my slow, buggy iPod is because my car stereo has an iPod input. If it weren’t for that, I’d have tossed it in the trash a long time ago.
12 ctm
// Jul 26, 2008 at 3:28 am
Jeff,
“I’ve made my personal choice to hate Macs and use Windows, regardless of what people tell me to do.”
To hate something you don’t have or do is a proof of that you don’t have enought confidence in your own choice.
And yes, I absolutely agree with the fact that Saab customers in the US probably have a distinct demographic profile and a different one from an average Saab owner in Sweden. What I wanted to point out is that it is hard to find a common demographic profile for Saab in Sweden since they are so common. And that is the reality that Saab is born out of. That is part of the history and tradition that shaped Saab, and had certain people at Saab make decisions that shaped Saab to what it is today. If they had decided to build a car for an upper middle class group of buyers in the US, then maybe Saab had looked completely different today. Maybe they will do that, and maybe that it what it’s take to attract more buyers.
13 Jeff
// Jul 27, 2008 at 7:45 am
ctm – I’ve used Macs. The first computer I ever touched (my Dad’s) was a Mac. My elementary and middle schools only had Macs. My uncle swears by them. My other uncle has an iMac. Lots of my friends have MacBooks.
I HATE OS. HATE it. I can’t stand it. Every time I use it, I hate it a little more.
It doesn’t help that I think Steve Jobs is a huge tool.
I am SO confident that I hate Macs and love PCs. My point was that even though I use PCs, it’s not because I’m following the mainstream crowd.
Anyway, now that that’s out of the way, you’re totally right about Saab commonality in Sweden creating a completely different market.
14 Markac
// Jul 27, 2008 at 9:25 am
Jeff: As someone who builds PCs and works in IT part time, I’d have to say there is little to love about Windoze either. I’m especially not very fond of Vista, it can be a real pain sometimes. If Linux was a little bit more developed, it would be all I would use.
You probably hate OSX because you’re so familiar with XP or something. Try using Unix or Linux and then try OSX again. Familiarity breeds contempt you know? BTW I have a fair bit of contempt for Microsoft and the same goes for GM I guess.