AWD and Saab - from the 1980s!!!
A few weekends ago I was at the GM proving grounds here in Australia, trying out the TTiD and getting a ride in the Turbo X.
Out pilot in the Turbo X was Peter Johansson, occasional rally driver and long-time Saab engineer - the man responsible for XWD and its expansion to other GM brands. Peter’s a third-generation Saab guy and has been with the company since his youth, following in the footsteps of his father and grandfather.
A few of us got to chatting with Peter, and he started telling us about his previous forays into all-wheel-drive. Over the years he developed systems privately with his dad for his own use in weekend racing. They sold one system to Haldex along the way.
Peter told us that another thing they did was to try it out on Saabs at the time. We’re talking late 1980s here, so it’s Saab 900s and 9000s that were used. Apparently the system worked quite well, but seeing as how Audi seemed to have the market all tied up with their Quattro system, the decision was taken to leave it be.
Aaaaaaaargh!!!
Peter mentioned that there should still be a few 9000s somewhere around Trollhattan, so I emailed Peter Backstrom at the Saab museum to see what he had to say about it:
Yes, we worked with some 4WD-concepts on the Saab 9000. They worked really good, regarding technical content & handling characteristics, but we were not able to tie the business case together in any of the attempts for serial production.
At least 2 cars were built, one in 1987 and another one in 1992 if I remember right, and I think I do. I was working as a test engineer at that time within the Manual Transmission department with clutch related matters and some colleagues of mine worked with the 4WD-concepts.
The system was based around the “Torsen”-principles, but also other concepts like the “Sigge Johansson Diff” was tested, but at that time the concept was not ready for serial production, although it was very promising already then.
The cars used the F35 transmission (5-speed) and the (independent) rear axle was a Saab-concept made in house. They car worked really good especially on ice and snow and was a delight to drive, even for a person with more or less only experience from frontwheel driven cars = me!
Yes, one of the cars has survived, a green 1992 Saab 9000 CS lives a nice life in the museums collection, although not on exhibition at the moment. The engine is a 2.3 litre turbo that is is tuned to 285 Hp.
Now, talk about Mojo!!
A Saab 900 or 9000 with AWD would have had it in spades!
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9000 AWD — interesting.
I’m not sure that the 900, given our blessed glass gearboxes, could have pulled it off.
Cool to know, though.
I love stories like this, maybe we will get to see it next June.
Can you imagine an SPG….or a Vig…….with all wheel drive? Elizabeth! I’m comin’ to join ya honey!!!
Aghast, a 285-hp 9000CS AWD ?!?!? The original Turbo X !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It’s always the accountants with their “business case”. We all know Saab has a fantastic history of innovation, it’s a shame the bean counters are allowed final say when good ideas get floated about.
Who was mass producing AWD saloons in the early 90’s? Am I right in thinking only Audi and Subaru? Audi was just starting to gain some mainstream appeal and Subaru was the farmers choice. Saab could have got into the AWD game early and led the pack instead of following it. Equally it might have gone the way of 4-matic or xDrive and just become an expensive and often ignored option, but I bet it would have given Saab a bit of a boost.
I’ve seen the phrase “halo car” used a few times on TS recently, putting an an AWD 9000 Aero into production would have been just that.
Wow, that’s awesome. Now, I suspect that if they had made a 285HP AWD 9000 Aero, I would be driving one right now rather than my ‘93 Aero.
Great story. I wonder how many other behind-the-scenes things like this exist in all of the automobile industry.
~Peter
Matt, the NG900 could have had AWD right from the start (in 1993) as the (otherwise dreadful) J-car platform had that option.
Opels using that platform (Vectra and Calibra) had the 4×4 option at that time albeit with the non-turbo 150 hp 2-litre engine. It wasn’t probably the worlds best awd system and might not have been strong enough for the torque of a turbo engine but at least it had given an awd start for Saab (and a much better Viggen later on).
At Saab that would have meant using the existing 4×4 body parts - mainly rear floorpan and trunk floor - but that was (surprise,surprise) axed because of cost reasons. (thanks, General).
“A Saab 900 or 9000 with AWD would have had it in spades!”
HELL YES, Swade!
It certainly would have made sense, as those vehicles were born in the snowy North! Ok - maybe not very snowy, but you get my drift!
Nothing ever came out of the SVC development either… *sigh*
And - NO BUSINESS CASE for a luxury car maker that’s based in snowy icy Sweden?
I’m feeling well depressed this week.
Short-sighted decision making. And you can’t blame that one on GM.
I’m sorry to bust everyones bubble, but this AWD system would have NEVER worked out..
If everyone remembers correctly, back then Saab was in a horrific money situation, and bringing AWD on board would have made their money situation possibly worse..
would have been nice, but had no financial backing.
I second Ronald, a 9000 awd was financially out of reach for Saab alone.
Looking back in history, Alfa Romeo came out 1993 with an awd version (164 Q4) of their Tipo 4-platformed car. So, speculating again, joining this project could have been something for Saab in different circumstances.
Because the Quattro had the market?
Jes*s! Sounds alot like the old Saab…Well Saab had their moments of stupidity. Ex 2. Or 1.. Volvo makes Wagons and we make hatchbacks.. We don´t care if everybody else wants a Saab Combi.. Thankfully they listened in the end and came out with the 9-5SC. Yeah, well they had the 95… But I guess the 3 door layout wasn´t realy what people asked for.
When GM pushed Saab to produce the NG900 Saab/GM had the GOLDEN opportunity to produce a 4wd car.. The one used in the 204hp Opel Calibra 2,0 Turbo (Did they make it as a Vauxhall?) and I believe also in the Vectra A? So why the H*** did they not? The NG900/OG9-3 platform was after all taken from the Calibra/ Vectra A.
/Tom
Nice article,…, but I don’t care… I don’t care about 4wd,I never did…It’ s expensive to develop,too expensive to sell and to drive, and if one car did never need 4wd, it would have been the classic 900. I’ve loved it in the 90′ths and after having the ng 900conv, the 9-5 (that I’ll keep as a company car), i’m getting the 92′ 900 tomorrow, and I’ll be enjoying it every sec,…
Well Kroum, Tompa and others stole my thunder as this is quite a depressing type of news and one that shows that Sweden had more opportunities in hand to make it big long before GM came knocking on their doors. We have seen many instances where through sheer misjudgments the direction and future of Saab (and lets face it, Volvo too) has been limited long time ago. The Teutonic men have got the branding focus much better than the Swedes I am afraid. In all honesty, GM got a much sicker baby than what they originally thought !!!
i think we should hi jack that drivetrain, get it replicated, and put it bak in that car… we need to start producing some aftermarket kits!
Just think guys if some people within Saab (Not the board) had not insisted on that Saab could make a successful Convertible. You all should know that the decision was not unanimous.. A world without Saab Convertible? Dare I say that that would have lead to a world without Saab? I believe so… What Saab and GM must do is DARE!!! And dare to be square.. Because it´s hip.. And maybe just what the doctor ordered.. 9-5 Hatch and 9-1 Shooting break and Coupé please. Maybe even a Sonett version of the 9-1?
Cheers/Tom
Perhaps some of this expertise ended up in Per Ecklands Pikes Peak car(s) ? They certainly had AWD and it seemed pretty well worked out.
Anyone here from Pers mechanical teams from that time who might comment?
Well here’s a scoop for you, PT. When we were chatting with Peter Johansson about the AWD efforts in the 80’s, the conversation progressed to Per’s Viggen.
The AWD system in that one?
Subaru.
Straight from the horse’s mouth.
Ouch!
Not even close to a production Subaru, me thinks. Rather a WRC transmission made by a specialist like Quaife or Xtrac or likes (don’t know which).
I assume those old 9000s still had the transverse engine while Per’s RC (as in Rallycross, not Radio Control…) or Pike’s Peak cars have longitudinally mounted engines.