Pollhattan Saab: Just add Swedishness
It’s not final yet, and I don’t think it will be for a while, but the latest news snippet on the future of the Saab 9-3 says that it will be made in Russelsheim, and that’s despite it being made on a platform that would be suited to build in Trollhattan.
If that happens, then we’d have a 9-5 build in Germany, a 9-4x built in Mexico and a 9-3 built in Germany. As there’s no word yet on the 9-1, we therefore have a possibility that there will come a time in the near future where there will not be any Saabs built in Sweden.
In addition to this, most of Saab’s design work is now done in Germany at the GM Europe Design Center. With design and manufacturing going elsewhere, Saab are represented in Sweden by a bunch of engineers (who serve all of GM) and the various people who make up the Saab Brand Center - many of whom would be based in Europe, but not necessarily in Sweden.
I happen to believe that Sweden is a crucial part of Saab’s identity. It’s hard to put your finger on when you’re not from Sweden yourself, but there’s a definite connection there between the people, the national philosophy, and the way they design and build their cars. Saab are Swedish.
On the other hand, though, if you’re new to the brand then their identity may not mean so much. All you might be worried about are comfortable seats and a turbo. Globalisation is an undeniable fact in today’s world and it effects Saab as much as anyone else. Maybe it’s better to keep the Saab name going by any means necessary now so as to build for better things in the future?
What do you think? I love Saabs. I love owning them, looking at them, pondering them and I especially love driving them. But could I continue to feel that way under any and all circumstances?
nHow "Swedish" do Saab need to be?
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When Jan Åke Jonsson took over the reins he said that Saab should be essentially Swedish. Making every car outside of Sweden seems to go against this. I’ll concede that there’s a case to make the 9-5 outside of Trollhattan and the 9-4x is largely irrelevant, but Saab’s core model and most popular, the 9-3 should be built in Sweden,
If some of the rumours circulating are true, we could end up with the 9-1 (if it happens) and the 9-2 (hatch derivative of the 9-3) being built at Trollhattan. If this was to happen, it makes much more sense to make the 9-3 there also.
I understood the reasons for moving 9-5 production to Germany to be manufactured alongside the Epsilon 2 based Vectra (and the then planned Epsilon 2 based 9-3). I can see how this could make good business sense from a cost perspective, even if it wasn’t popular with us Saab fans.
However, if 9-3 is now going to be Delta based then why not make it at Trollhattan? Otherwise it just looks like GM management are bowing down to union pressure and not making decisions for the good of the business or the brand.
Make it where it makes the most economic sense, just make sure its got Swedish design and a quality build. I don’t believe that where the car is built, makes the car. You have BMW and MB moving production the US, yet everyone knows they are very German. Buick in China is booming and out Buick the Buick’s of America.
My previous Svensk ride, 2006 Volvo S60R:
Design: Gotteburg, SE
Assembly: Ghent, Belgium
Parts: 25 countries.
Great Volvo, but still no match for the Turbo X.
What i want is motivated workers with benefits who will be at the plant for years to come and have a personal interest in the wellbeing of the company, not seasonal workers from across the Bosphorus without benefits, sabotaging the line after having an argument with the German supervisor (at VW ratio is 1:20). The GTI VR6 i got in 1999 died off the lot, because someone at the plant stripped the insulation off at strategic locations, so that the computer would short when driven over a puddle, this was according to the service manager who emailed me the photos he submitted to VW.
The problem with building Saabs outside of Sweden is that it establishes a pattern of brand compromises.
It starts out by saying “let’s build the 9-4 in Mexico alongside the Cadillac because the main market will be in North America and it will provide a hedge against currency fluctuations.” Pretty soon the thought becomes “let’s not give the 9-4 a biopower turbocharged 4 because that would cost extra to develop and we have a 6 that’s ready to go.”
In the end, someone at GM will think “why even have a Saab brand, since their cars are 99% similar to other products? The 1% difference is not worth the hassle…”
Customers can smell a compromise way before executives can; executives tend to wait until the first quarterly sales reports are in, by which time it’s too late (a few years too late).
I don’t think that many customers will spend their own money to buy a gussied-up Opel/Saturn, especially when the Saab is likely to cost more than the corresponding Opel at the same equipment level. They are much more likely to buy a “genuine” Alfa, BMW or even VW for the same price.
instead of having ‘cheapest’ as the criteria in the third option of the pole I think that ‘most efficient with highest quality’ would be the better language.
whoops i see that quality is mentioned already!
Saab convertible’s are nowadays built at Magna Steyr and there is no Austrian folklore that slipped in by the back door.
http://cgi.ebay.nl/Kochbuch-Das-feine-Grazer-Menu-Handschrift-Steiermark_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQitemZ220226191768#ebayphotohosting
bmw z4 is from the us and some journo’s and customers believe it even has british roots and shares some genes with the austin-healey …
Fiats 500 charms with the italian lifestyle in every rounding it has, but it is being assembled in east-europe and not at the legendary Lingott factory.
The difficult part for the brand is to keep the authenticity, till certain height. If you’re too radical about those car nationalism you’ll end up like Bristol. English gentlemans club atmosphere and distinguished timeless look with loads, but don’t go in detail … .
Quality comes first. Altough I prefer one from Sweden, I wouldn’t hesitate if it is assembled somewhere else.
As long it doens’t smell like Sauerkraut I’ll even accept my Saab from Rüsselsheim.
So I polled for option 3 (but that’s no vote for a social disaster at Trollhattan - I hope they work that out fairly).
But a Saab has to be something else than a mere Saab-badged Vauxhall-Opel.
The difference should be more than a higher price tag. Premium means also being at the forfront of technology. So GM better saves up their forefront technology like BioEthanol, turbo, safety-items, even SVC, XWD or any forthcoming development for their premium brand. Technology-drain towards the non-premium products kills the premium status in the end.
VAG also makes a clear difference between the VW, Audi, Seat and Skoda brands, interfering each other as minimum as possible while on the other hand sharing the maximum of components & parts.
I guess we have to remember that some of the classic 900’s were built in Finland. It is actually stamped onto the VIN plate of Alex’s new (to him) 900 Turbo.
I will never own a Saab not made in Sweden. I’ll continues buying VW/Audi instead.
As long as the quality is maintain/improved and they offer a better equipped vehicle for the same price, I would purchase a Saab assembled in North America(Canada, USA, or Mexico).
As things become more expensive to manufacture (labour, steel, oil, unions, etc…), these kind of location changes are inevitable.
Everyone: I think that we are overreacting to this. My own Saab 900 was assembled in Finland, that doesn’t make it less of a 900.
Let’s see where the manufacturing will land. Even if the Germans “secure” manufacturing starting in 2012, that’s an automotive lifetime away in this business climate. I simply don’t think that this rumor has any truth until the tooling is actually being transported to the plant in 2011. The German labor union has proven to be a dubious source of information, and, in fact, stands to benefit from the rumor in the short term. Even if an announcement is made, there are changes that happen every twenty minutes between now and then.
I wouldn’t get too worked up about this.
I think the issue here; is the underlying question of should Saab have a Swedish manufacturing facility?
All the major corporate companies have production plants outside their main head quarters. Many have mentioned BMW and the Z4 and X5 being built in the US. Or even the 900 being produced in Finland but the fundamental difference is the parent company has not completely abandoned a ‘home land’ based plant. Doing so will leave any company with no identity. You cannot call Saab a Swedish company if it no longer produces cars there.
What scares me most, is that we are discussing this because we understand that a company like GM would be capable of severing these vital final strings between the product and Sweden, just for the sake of cutting costs.
Such a sobering thought actually makes me feel ill.
An important thing to remember here: BMW can get away with manufacturing a couple of cars in the US (and add in any other company that builds away from base) because they have such a strong German identity and presence back in Munich. I’m sure their identity would take a significant dent if they decided they didn’t like the sausages there anymore and were moving the whole BMW operation to Alabama (for instance).
Saab are Swedish and the production of two or three Saab models outside of Sweden means a lot more than two or three BMW’s being made outside Germany. It means the whole range.
A Viggen or a convertible being made in Finland was OK because the car was designed in Sweden and the rest of the range was built there as well. Building in Finland was an overflow issue and an indicator of expansion back then. Building externally now is just matter of corporate convenience.
Saab design and quality build are all that matters. I consider my Jetta to be a German car despite being made in Mexico. of course the build quality on the Mexican MKV VW’s is much better than those that come out of Wolfsburg these days, so it’s a moot point.
Point of origin is so silly, though. Best example: Toyota Tundra, made in Texas. Chevy Silverado: made in Mexico. Who’s the real AMERICAN pickup truck? Hhaha.
If the proposed changes are a means to offer better equipped Saabs for a more reasonable price, then I support them. These changes may be a means to finally compete with BMW/Audi.
Saabs roots are still in Sweden and we know that’s where it all began over 60 years ago. Just as long as the museum stays in Trollhattan.
IMO, as long as the high volume cars are manufactured where it makes most sense. Perhaps Trollhattan’s plant can be reserved for the “limited edition models” or low volume models (9-5, 9-1, or perhaps a sonnett?).
Fresh from my Spain experience I’m full of Snaabiness. Having spoken to Saab employees very close to the source (you know who you are) Trollhattan will continue to manufacture Saabs, it is understood as critical. Also future Saabs, whether from Russelheim or not, will have more bespoke technology and controls and always outclass equivalent sized Opels in features and engine specs.
Sound too good to be true? Maybe, but it proves there are still Snaabs within the GM fold who understand and will fight for these things.
When I first heard rumours of production moving to Russelheim a couple of years ago, I almost wanted to cry. Today, I’m not that concerned if Saabs are manufactured in Germany or Sweden, as long as the quality is good and they have different parts which the customers see and feel from eg. Opel. I just hope we won’t see all stereos and climatecontrols be the same over the whole GM range…
I think we only need look at the BMW X3, X5 and X6 as testaments to the fact that it is the German engineering and design that is key, location of assembly not so much; especially considering that currently, the parts themselves are already coming from all over the world in the current lineup. So long as engineering and design remain in Sweden, there is still the potential for a bright future for Saab.
I think we only need look at the BMW X3, X5 and X6 as testaments to the fact that it is the German engineering and design that is key, location of assembly not so much; especially considering that currently, at least in the case of the 9-3, the parts themselves are already coming from all over the world. So long as engineering and design remain in Sweden, there is still the potential for a bright future for Saab.
I agree wholeheartedly with WooDz and Swade’s comment following WooDz. Saab needs a manufacturing presence, a strong one, in Sweden. I’ll begrudgingly settle for one model, but it should be the model with the character that best represents the marque.
If I read the poll correctly, the first two selections include building in Sweden. Well over two thirds of the total vote fall in those two selections. That’s a landslide friends. GM: Please pay attention.
Death of a brand. If a SAAB is designed and built in another country other than Sweden, then I might as well buy a Saturn or a Chevy Malibu. The brand will exist in name only. There will be no substance behind it. The car will have no soul.
Saab is the royal appointed car of the swedish family… what would they think if their ‘royal’ car is now built in Germany????
Car manufacturers need a strong home base. Saab has always been selling very good in Sweden, but never even close as good in its neighboring countries Denmark, Finland or Norway, let alone Germany. Saab disadvantange is that Sweden is such a lightly populated country in the now so global world. The home base is just not strong enough. It has to be expanded by at least Germany. So the move to Germany for production and development may finaly provide Saab with the very much needed (more local)sales and local media attention which soon may see Saab as (partly)German (just as Toyota and Acura are a partly US, right?). That may boost sales, not only in Germany! Think of Saab as a Swedish/German car: an unbeatable combination! Would a potential US or UK customer NOT buy a Swedish looking and breathing Saab because it is made in Germany? Don’t think so. On the contrary. Conclusion: The Swedish roots will always be with Saab. More important now: the world wide expansion of the Saab sales.
GM ownership of Saab has proven to be a lingering death for the brand. After 18 years, what have we gained? As I said in my little article last month, GM tend to absorb things totally, leaving very little trace or they sell them off. For various reasons, it has taken GM a long time to swallow Saab, but now it seems by the end of this decade that may happen.
Looking back it’s intersting to speculate what would have happened if Fiat had managed to buy Saab instead of GM. The 9000 had a lot in common with the Fiat Croma and the Lancia Thema and whilst there might have been some rationalization, the 9000 likely would’ve remained largely unchanged. The 900 replacement I believe, would’ve been spun of the (then) new Lancia Dedra platform using Saab’s 9000 engines and could well have proven to be a much better car than the GM900? We’ll never know.
Looking at what’s in store for Saab with even further diluting of it’s design facilities and it seems, the loss of it’s manufacturing base, I think it would be better for all concerned if it was sold. Hopefully to someone who has some felling for the brand.
If GM is to keep Saab and make it a prestige brand, it needs to premiere new platforms with the prestige vehicle and then spin cheaper cars off that. It just doesn’t work the other way round. If all Saabs are made in an Opel/Vauxhall factory and then released after the cheaper models, the motoring press will have good reason to say that all Saabs are just tarted up Vauxhalls or Opels. It will become increasingly difficult to argue otherwise, even for us Saab fans.
Hang on, Merc and BMW make cars in South Africa, Honda build cars in the UK- as do Nisan and Toyota.
Is it really the end of the world if Saab GM build a car outside Sweden?
I speak as a dedicated Svenska Saabist.
And frankly, if the Swedes can build a Turbo X with the wrong trim spec and even the wrong door sill plates on one side as opposed to the other, why not let the Germans have a go!
And don;t knock- ‘em many of the German auto workers are Turks and do a fine job.
Lets us not forget that the first Saab used a German derived DKW engine and thet the 96 v4 used a Ford of germany built and supplied engine!
Oh, and Volvos last of the line V40 classic range were built in the Netherlands at the old Mitsuibishi plant and had top notch quality.
And to my recall teh Finnish built 99s were of much higher build quality than some of the 99s that came out of Sweden for a time…
So, Saab needs to build cars in Sweden, but it does not have to - does it….
Markac - amen to that.
Lance,
Volvos are built in the Netherlands at the old DAF plant. There are still a few DAF enthusiasts out there…
It is just a fact that MOST of SAAB’s production WILL be outside Sweden in the future. So, IMHO to keep credibility to the brand-image of a Swedish car, it would make perfect sense to keep part of the design, engineering and production in Sweden. You do not see BMW, Merc or Audi move the vast majority of their production outside of Germany anytime soon, right? Automobile makers that knows everything about the importance of brand-image.
Obviously, subtleties like this may go under GM’s nose though, especially if it would save a couple of bucks in the short-run.
There should be no visible parts shared with any other car. Like new doorhandles. First, I liked them. But now, everytime I see Vectra, I see only those doorhandles.. When I look at my 9-3, I see those bloody handles! Everytime reminding me that I´m driving Vectra´s brother.
One older motorist came to me at the gas pump and asked if this was new Opel.. then he corrected himsel and told me he meant to ask if it´s the new Saab, and if so, is it Saab anymore?
Well, I tried to tell him that it´s as Saab as any other Saab. He goes shaking his head, and said “a true loyal Saab fans say that the last one was a 9000″.. What could I say? I disagreed, but that guy made me feel angry for the rest of the day.
He made me hate Opel and Gm even more.
I´ve said this before, I´m not going to buy Saab build in Germany and designed in USA or somewhere else. And I don´t mean exterior design, but the whole engineering of the car.
There´s already so many details in new 9-3 I know that are not from Swedish designboard. GM bosses tell them what parts they should share, and where they should save.
Do they remember why C900 got so popular? It wasn´t because they tried to follow the others and please NA market mainly. Still it became almost a cult car in that market.
So I guess I´ll start saving money for a new X3.. Doh!!
Well, let me add my views on the subject as an former automitive engineer. There may be a stronger connection between design/engineering and the location of SAAB car factories than most people realize:
- Designers/engineers may become concerned that GM is about to dump SAAB and quit. They will probably find other jobs.
- Feedback from “production engineers”, with real knowledge regarding the production plant facilities, is a very important factor when developing a new car. Normally, every station on the production line is allowed more than 30-60 seconds (please correct me if my memory slips…).
- There are technicans helping out the engineers/designers during various tasks in product development. The number of empolyed technicians can partly be motivated by that they can be used to correct production flaws. For instance, I have heard that were a long cue of cars in front of the technicans workshop in the beginning of the Biopower car production in order to change fuel pumps (the original ones in could not withstand ethanol…). If the factory closes down, some these guys may have to leave. This means that some engineering test rigs, with less than 100 % scheduled time, may have to go well, since there are no longer available technicians that can operate the rigs.
Conclusion: Less car production in Trollhattan is the beginning of the end for SAAB as the brand that we know it, and that will probably result in game over… Sorry to be pessimistic (and for the English grammar), I may be wrong or I’m simply too drunk, it’s just my 2cents and I may be wrong…
I have just re-read my comment regarding “production engineers”: Of course, we have telephones, e-mail and netmeeting nowadays, but nothing beats being able to talk person-to-person… It is also easier to set up meetings if you sit “next-doors”…
And BTW, I was referring to Swedish engineers/designers that may become concerd regarding GM’s plans for SAAB.
MarkoA: I agree with you about the door handles. They are just so GM generic. The convertible still has proper Saab handles and looks all the better for it. The verts doors are different doors and made in smaller numbers so I imagine it was easier and cheaper to leave them alone. For the sedan though, it’s just one more little detail that isn’t Saab anymore….
Does Saab of the future need to be connected to Saab of the past. Lexus was invented as a new brand, and not based on an old story line. The key brand feature was that it had japanese quality and design. German quality and design does go along way in the international arena if we are talking about moving Saab to the premium segment. Swedishness as a brand compared to Germaness, can not compare in the premium product range. Because it goes against the grain of understated swedish values that has been reflected in saab over the last 50 years. What I thought was the death of Saab of the past, was when Saab Aero-x was introduced. Understated no more, swedishness no longer. Trollhattan design never again.
Aero-x was designed by British designers, engineered by German Engineers, Build in Italian workshops, Presented in Geneva, and still managed to capture the future of saab more than any other Saab product for the last 20 years. If Saab produced sportscars or convertibles in Trollhattan, that captured the brand better than mass produced 9-3s and 9-5s, i believe the future would be secured. Small car volumes with intensive engineering suitable for Trollhattan designer and engineers, would be ideal. Make the Trollhattan plant a tourist attraction, where cars are produced like mini-coopers in a glass box connected to a airport runway. Leave the mass production to the Germans, leave the spirit to the enthusiasts.
If German Unions only argument for its Saab production is economy of scale, then can anyone tell me why Saab is not made in Thailand or India, China, Russia,where there is a real potential to reach new consumer groups and cheap production.
Lets face it, GM is not saving Saab from dying by moving it to Germany. Its Saab providing the blood transfusion to keep Opel alive so it can save GM from its own death. Saab is donating away all its organs, and now left on life support. If GM wants to have a healthy Saab, it cant sacrifice heart (production) and brain (Design and Engineering) and expect consumers to embrace a vegetable.