32 responses so far ↓

• 1 PT // May 27, 2008 at 7:59 pm

  No 2.3HOT and no V8. Hmmm interesting. It would be a shame if this was the end of the line for the 2.3. Has its life been run? I’m not an engineer so this is a genuine question.

• 2 Markac // May 27, 2008 at 8:08 pm

  Dissapointing. There needs to be big 4 cylinder high output turbo and a 3.2 litre V6 turbo.
  I know the old 2.3 is gone, but there are some other big fours in GM’s stable.

• 3 Ivan(MuzX) // May 27, 2008 at 8:10 pm

  I have heard from “my Djup Strup” that the 9-5 will be equipped with V6 Turbodiesel from VM Motori.

• 4 riku1100s // May 27, 2008 at 8:30 pm

  PT, the old iron block engines won’t appear on any new products. (I believe GM sold the engine plant in Södertälje ?).

  Where is the 350 bhp V6 ? Where is the 260 bhp DI turbo four ? (Reserved to Opel and Chevy Cobalt, perhaps ?)

• 5 Baracuda // May 27, 2008 at 9:36 pm

  The VM Motori is the 2.9 TiD Engine with 250 hp.
  And the new 9-5 will be equipped with the 2.0T and the 2.3T. The engines will not be removed for the new model, the will only be updated.
  The GMnext presentation that the car will get the known L-4 engines, V6 petrol and diesel and Biopower.

• 6 progolf // May 27, 2008 at 9:39 pm

  Must be direct injection in the 2.0T. Basically 3 engines here. Diesels are designed by VM Motori and will launch in Opel Insignia (and Cadillac). Why less hp in the 2,8T when 9-4X gets 300? Surely with DI 300 is correct? I’d like to see 1,8 with TT’s instead of 2,0’s. Less CO2, better milage.

• 7 progolf // May 27, 2008 at 9:42 pm

  I don’t think there will be a 2,3T. That’s manufactured in Sweden and SAAB is selling the factory, so it will die with the current 9-5.

• 8 Robbie // May 27, 2008 at 9:42 pm

  The new 9-5 has to have a 300+ hp engine, otherwise i´ll say it´s already dead…

• 9 Adam // May 27, 2008 at 9:58 pm

  I like seeing the 2.9 Tid on there, but the way it’s liksted, does that mean it will come ONLY with the XWD and auto transmission? That’s a bit lame, although I do agree that the XWD/auto would be the most appropriate powertrain for that engine.

  I also have to agree with previous posts that the high output engine seems to be missing. Unless it got a lot lighter, it would appear that they still need a headline engine.

• 10 Adam // May 27, 2008 at 10:15 pm

  For this and the 9-4, what about transmissions? 6 speed auto? CVT? Manual? Transmission has a large influence on fuel economy also.

• 11 rayman146 // May 27, 2008 at 11:17 pm

  as far as I know we will see 6 speed MT and 6 speed automatic [wandler] – - what they need is no CVT [they tend to break down far to early] but a double clutch AT. Volvo [Ford] will have it from no on as so called powershift and Saab will need it as well. It can then even help saving fuel!

• 12 Nigel Park // May 28, 2008 at 12:37 am

  Is anyone talking orders for a 9-5 2.9 diesel XWD auto ???? I want !!! ( if it is a hatchback with a proper arm rest between the front seats and 9000 Aero seats

• 13 WooDz // May 28, 2008 at 12:46 am

  I still belive that Saab should be gunning for Audi the brands have more commonalities especially now Saab has XWD. I’ve made a few comparisons between the current A4 and seeing what engines Saab could ultilise from the OPEL Insignia. The engine choices are taken from Audi Deutschland. The (Q) is for vehicles that offer both FWD and AWD. Qu are for vehicles that only offer Quattro. The same can be replicated for Saab. I have chosen the A4 as this model carries the latest engine advancements

  Audi A4 Saab 9-5
  Diesel
  2.0TDI (143hp) 2.0TID (160hp)
  2.7TDI (Q) (190hp) 2.0TTID (190hp)
  3.0TDI Qu (240hp) 2.9 V6 TID (250hp)

  Petrol
  1.8 TFSI (120hp) 1.8i (140hp)
  1.8 TFSI (160hp) 1.6DI T (180hp)
  2.0 TFSI (180hp) 2.0 T (200hp)
  2.0 TFSI (211hp) 2.0 T (220hp)
  3.2 FSI (Q)(255hp) 2.8 T (260hp)

  4.2 FSI Quattro (350hp)
  S6 5.2 FSI Quattro (435hp)
  Rs6 5.0 FSI Quattro (580hp)

  For the standard lineup Saab can better Audi in the power stakes. I’ve also checked the 2.4 and 2.7 engines in the current A6 and Saab could better those too with small displacement engines. I’ve also listed Audi’s Performance line-up engines which are part of the current A6.

  Reading into this; Saab should be looking to open up the 2.8 Turbo to hit the 350hp mark for an Aero version. However; anything more to compete with the S6 or RS6 Avant could be seen by Saab as falling outside of their ‘Responsible Performance’ strategy. If you want that sort of performance then buy a Caddy. Sadly I can’t see how Saab will be able to fund 350hp in R&D on their own and the best we can hope for is 300hp. This doesn’t mean all is lost; if OPEL decide they want a Twin-Turbo application for an Insignia OPC then Saab could use it too.

• 14 Bernard // May 28, 2008 at 1:24 am

  Why bother with a non-biopower 2.0T? I understand the reasoning for the previous generation, but the new car doesn’t need to offer an engine that can’t handle E-85.

  It’s not like Biopower is still a new thing for Saab. They must be ramped-up by now.
  I don’t buy the homologation argument either, since it’s a whole new car that needs to go through all sorts of government hoops anyways.

• 15 Kroum // May 28, 2008 at 1:39 am

  Those numbers make no sense – the 2.8T V6 making less than in the current 9-3 Aero XWD? No shot. The new 9-5 will come with XWD standard, remember. And a 2.8 liter engine making the same power as the current 2.3 engine? GM may be bean counters, but they are not completely insane.

  I’ve heard from two reliable sources, independent of each other, that the new 9-5 Aero will output well north of 350 hp (a possibility of 380 was mentioned, too). The base engine was rumoured to be around 300 hp, too. These could be North American specced cars, but either which way, the above list makes no sense to me.

• 16 Nigel Park // May 28, 2008 at 1:52 am

  I cannot speak for the rest of the world, but here in the UK two of the most important figures for any new car is the CO2 output and the fuel consumption.

  From March 2010 new cars with high CO2 will be subject to a penalty tax of GBP 1000 and with fuel here touching around GBP 1.30 per litre ( GBP 5.91 per gallon – USD 11.65), high BHP is great but you will need to remortgage your house to refill the car if you use all the power.

  The UK market needs good ecomony and performance and a happy compromise between the two. If the new 9 – 5 cannot average 45 MPG it will not sell because a BMW 5 series will do this and do 0 – 60 in under 8 seconds and go on to 150+ Mph… and emit less than 190 g/Co2…..

• 17 Edonis // May 28, 2008 at 2:13 am

  I’d like to see the 1.9TTiD 180hp in the next 9-5, that could prove to be a bestseller in most European markets.

• 18 WooDz // May 28, 2008 at 2:28 am

  Korum The main list and my list below does not mention an Aero version. The figure may not have been finalised. My argument is that Saab should be going head to head with Audi and in my list Saab can achieve that.
  I do not see why the 9-5 should come standard with XWD when all other premium brands make it an option.
  As for 300hp for a base engine I can only assume that would be for the US market.
  Here in Europe the majority will be looking for a small, yet frugal diesel that offers in the realms of 50mpg.

• 19 Kroum // May 28, 2008 at 2:48 am

  WooDz, I assumed that the 2.8T V6 260 hp and 2.9 Tid V6 XWD AT 250 hp from Saablover’s list are the Aero engines. I am not sure if he referred to the base model only.

  As for your list, I completely agree that a wider engine choice, esp. for the base models makes a lot of sense. Time will tell if Saab can really afford to offer so many different engine choices – we have to keep in mind Audi moves a hell of a lot more cars than Saab.

• 20 WooDz // May 28, 2008 at 3:31 am

  A wider variety of engines could be something the a Rüsselsheim production facility can offer. Although life isn’t as simple as just building which ever engine you have available at your plant, as sales targets depict production, which need to be procured at price that reflects the volume.

  But I see your point with the 2.8 V6 with 260hp. Looking at it again it could read that that is where the Aero will top out. Saab shouldn’t be looking for a S6 / M5 substitute and I agree with you that the 9-5 Aero must start with a 3 to make any marketing sense.

• 21 SAAB007 // May 28, 2008 at 3:44 am

  Very disappointing.

  The engine choices are no more powerful than what is currently being offered in the 9-3.

  SAAB’s flagship car should at the very least have more power in any engine variants it offers over the 9-3.

  It appears that the next 9-5 is not competing in the segment of the BMW 5 series or MB E class-as SAAB still chooses to market the 4 cylinder engine in it’s next, “suppose” flagship sedan/wagon.

  The 4 cylinder engine may be important in non-US markets, and I understand that not al the engine variants will make it to US shores-but even with US gas prices at their current rate-a 4 cylinder engine in the US luxury market is almost non existent.

  Only the Acura TSX, Audi A3/A4 and Volvo S40/V50 (all of whom directly compete against the 9-3) have 4 cylinder engines.

  The Audi A6, BMW 5 series, MB E class, Lexus ES/IS, Infiniti G/M series, Acura TL/RL and even Jaguar with its new XF and Volvo with its new S80-do not have any 4 cylinder US variants. If the 9-5 apsires to be “world class” in its segment-what segment would that be?

  What is SAAB thinking??

  SAAB must be setting their sights for the next 9-5 on the US family sedan market-as it is the only US market segment that offers both 4 cylinder and 6 cylinder engine variants in its cars i.e. the Honda Accord and Toyota Camry. But even the Accord and Camry have more powerful non turbocharged V6 engines than what SAAB currently offers in its V6 offering-along with better fuel economy to boot.

  It pains me to see how poorly GM has managed SAAB up to this point. The 9-4x has taken so long to get to the market that-no matter how great it may be-it will be just another ubiquitous SUV in a market that is shrinking due to high gas prices. The US SUV craze seems to have finally come and gone-and “now” here comes the 9-4x?

  That’s how long it took GM to give SAAB a brand new SUV. They’ve completely missed out.

  Great timing guys!

  The next generation 9-3 and 9-5 will be two generations late-as their competition have already gone through two model lifecycles (see Audi, BMW and MB) in the interim.

  As much as I love the brand-let’s not kid ourselves. SAAB is fighting for its very survival-and GM has been indecisive and lacksidaisical in making the brand strong and relevant.

  I hope that they eventually get it right. But unfortunately, it may be too late when they finally do….

• 22 NJ_Nick // May 28, 2008 at 4:02 am

  Why even bother with a 260hp V6 2.8 that for sure will not only get worse gas mileage than the current 2.3T but also worse performace?

  Good night SAAB.

• 23 WooDz // May 28, 2008 at 4:55 am

  If Saab USA offer an entry level 4 Cyl. 9-5 then they will be right to do so. The Turbo Charged 4 banger is Saab’s trademark. Come the new 9-5 the 2.3 will be dead. A great engine but no premium manufacturer is using cast-iron blocks anymore.
  As for the V6 I don’t think 260hp is all Saab will offer from this engine. One thing is for sure after driving both for 6 months I’ll take the V6 with better power delivery, less torque-steer and a 6-speed box over the 2.3 any day.

• 24 NineTwoX // May 28, 2008 at 5:14 am

  BMW 528 – 230HP & ~4600lbs.
  Audi A6 – 255HP & ~4000lbs.
  Saab 9-5 – 260HP & ~3500lbs.

  If the new 9-5 only comes with 220HP but still weighs significantly less than the 528 & A6, then there shouldn’t be an issue with performance. In fact the 2.0T might be “right-sized” for it’s application.

  It seems like the trend for all manufacturer’s is to produce vehicles that are bigger (heavier) with more HP (bigger engines typically mean worse fuel economy).

  How is following the leaders considered being innovative?

• 25 Nigel Park // May 28, 2008 at 5:46 am

  Numbers are only one side to the story. So far people have mentioned the Audi A4 and A6 because these are in the Saab market. But dont foget that the best selling Audi A8 is the 3.0 litre diesel. It offers smooth delivery, respectible performance and quietness. Yes there is the awesome W12 with all the BHP and torque BUT…

  So I truly beleive that if Saab can deliver a car that is worthy of the name in terms of design with engines that are smooth, effortless and economical with acceptable perfomance, then they can compete.

  Most real world buyers dont look at the figures, they drive the car and buy it because it feels good and ticks their respective boxes.

  300 or 400 BHP is useless if you have a lousy chassis, brakes, steering and gearbox !!

  So the 9-5 must be destinctly SAAB in its look, be very comfortable, practical with a good “real world” performance.

• 26 joemama // May 28, 2008 at 7:36 am

  SAAB007 – great points. I hope Saab isn’t too late to the game, but they really need to get the new 9-5 right. Luxury and fuel economy.

  As for the 9-4x, another SUV gas guzzler might be too little too late.

• 27 ck1x // May 28, 2008 at 7:43 am

  There’s no way these engine figures are remotely final. The 2.0T DI I4 in the Pontiac Solstice outputs at 260 hp and gets 22/31 gas mileage by itself. Why would Saab not use this engine and instead use outdated V6 specs, this doesn’t make any sense. I don’t think they finished the specs on what new engines will be presented yet. Which would make sense the last time the new 9-5 was shown behind closed doors, there were no power plants in the cars at all and Just dummy models. I believe these figures were just taken from Opels announcement of the Insignia’s new engine line-up. I found this on carscoop.com
  http://carscoop.blogspot.com/2008/04/2009-opel-insignia-engine-range-to.html

  “Insignia’s engine range.
  Starting off with gasoline models, the Vectra’s successor will be offered with five petrol units: 1.6-liter with 115 Hp; 1.8-liter with 140 Hp; 1.6-liter Turbo with 180 Hp; 2.0-liter Turbo with 200 Hp and 2.8-liter V6 Turbo with 260 Hp. The Insignia’s diesel engine range will include four units: 2.0-liter available with 110, 130 and 160 Hp and a top notch 2.9-liter V6 with 250 Hp.” We don’t know for sure if Saab are just going to use the exact same set-up as Opel. The engines for Saab could and should be tweaked before launch,to create some seperation between the two brands. Think about it, if GM plans to take the Insignia upmarket and Saab offers the same power plants as a an Opel. What’s the incentive in purchasing a Saab then?

• 28 NineTwoX // May 28, 2008 at 8:09 am

  Will the need/want for SUVs eventually dissappear? IMO, I doubt that people will ever stop wanting them, however, what they require of them will change.

  Fuel economy could dictate their decision. In addition, utility/storage could be another factor that influences their decision as people may buy smaller SUVs for better fuel economy but still want the room.

  If that’s the case, I sure hope offers a 9-4X that is innovative (plug-in hybrid technology?).

• 29 Dan9-1 // May 28, 2008 at 8:18 am

  adding to what SAAB007 as said: If the new 9-5 estate/combi is going to be over 5m in length, and possibly the sedan too, how is a 4 cyl going to keep up with this. It would be nice to see it from a Saabists point of view as its the main typ eof engine which Saab is known for but I feel that in this application it may not have the power whuch people are looking for, the current 1.9Tid is considered in the UK to be underpowering the 9-5, but its still adequate, its just whether it’ll be able to take the increased weight of the new model and still be able to offer bottom level performance, or whether it’ll fall of the bottom of the level so much that it won’t even be worth considering.

  If the power levels are upped from the 1.9 significantly, like it says at the top, but seeing how some of Saab’s products have gone and the money being put into the company from above I don’t know whether the advancement will be enough, and hopefully they won’t be hand-me-down engines from other companies given to the “mad swedish uncle” to use, becuase that would be sad for a company which I believe still has so much potential, and if the designers are to be believed, then the design will be brilliant. Please Saab, don’t ruin the car because of the engines, as I’m sure that could annoy alot of people here……

• 30 WooDz // May 28, 2008 at 9:08 am

  I wouldn’t worry about entry level engines. I think the new 2.0 Diesel Direct Injection with 160hp will comensate for the slight increase in weight. There will be a TTiD that will push 190hp not to mention the 250hp V6. I think GM has the Diesel bases well and truly covered. It’s the gasoline applications that are a worry and as that will mean the USA for the majority of units the Americans here have a right to be concerned. People shouldn’t confuse the issue by comparing Subarus, Hondas and Chevrolets, as they are not premium brand vehicles.
  But what we can predict for the US market is an entry level Turbo 4 with 220hp and mid-range V6 with 260hp but the question is what will the Aero come in at. I refuse to belive that 260 will be the 9-5’s lot. As mentioned above I can see it starting at 300hp but whether Saab has the funds to push the envelope further is something we’ll have to watch from the side-lines and prey they come up with the goods.

• 31 1985 Gripen // May 28, 2008 at 10:52 am

  I want to shy away from being a pessimist, but I want to say that this list of 9-5 engines just does not seem to make sense to me.

  I thought that there was talk that the new 9-5 was going to be the highest-tech Saab to date. It is to be the flagship.

  There was talk that there would be some sort of a hybrid engine available in the 9-5.

  There was talk that the 9-5 would get the same VM Motori diesel (outside the N.A. market) that Cadillac gets for the Euro-spec CTS.

  These engine options look like something that would work for the 2009 9-3, but certainly not the next-gen 9-5. The next-gen 9-5 is supposed to be bigger (and therefore heavier) than the prior generation. The engines are going to have to output more power to push that weight.

  No disrespect meant to Saablover, but this info doesn’t seem to pass the “smell test” to me.

• 32 cj // May 28, 2008 at 11:48 am

  I agree with 1985 Gripen. Something is not right…. the small engines as the entry version might be somewhat correct but there will certainly be some higher entry models (at least for the halo factor).

  Also, something that has been completely missed is the hybrid… in europe there are harly any hybrids yet and there is definately room to carv some environmental points on that, especially given the fact that GM already sell hybrids in north america so the technology is there.