Comments on: More talk of the next Saab 9-3 http://www.trollhattansaab.net/archives/2008/05/more-talk-of-the-next-saab-9-3.html Saab 9-1, 9-3, 9-4x, 9-5, 9-7x News Thu, 11 Dec 2008 06:34:22 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: socal_eric http://www.trollhattansaab.net/archives/2008/05/more-talk-of-the-next-saab-9-3.html#comment-44902 socal_eric Fri, 09 May 2008 19:11:39 +0000 http://www.trollhattansaab.net/?p=6236#comment-44902 Not necessarily unreasonable to consider Delta if they're trying to plan future models on available production capacity, size/economy, and a bunch of other factors. I sure wouldn't complain about Saab's being made in Sweden either. A couple of the comments by others here have hinted at concern over using a "compact" or "economy car" platform to underpin a new 9-3. To get an idea of what's possible using new platform architecture and how diverse the products can be you can take a look to other manufacturers. The compact Dodge Caliber and Jeep Compass/Patriot twins are all based on the same Mitsubishi-developed platform that also underpins the new Lancer/Evo. The same architecture is stretched and also used for Chrysler's Sebring sedan and convertible, the Dodge Avenger, the new Dodge Journey crossover, and will also be used by Mitsu for the new Eclipse, Gallant, and their crossovers. You can also look to Ford as previously mentioned. The Euro Focus C1 platform has spawned the Mazda 3 and Volvo S40-family but few people also realize that they used that architecture as a basis for the new EUCD platform that underpins car like the Volvo S80. And for anyone that has seen how much bigger a car the S80 is over the Focus and that it includes things like AWD and a V8, that should give you an idea on what's possible. We're not necessarily talking badge engineering anymore (although that is still done, witness the BLS), but instead developing products that have certain characteristics and elements to leverage economies of scale and facilitate flexible production. Not necessarily unreasonable to consider Delta if they’re trying to plan future models on available production capacity, size/economy, and a bunch of other factors. I sure wouldn’t complain about Saab’s being made in Sweden either. A couple of the comments by others here have hinted at concern over using a “compact” or “economy car” platform to underpin a new 9-3. To get an idea of what’s possible using new platform architecture and how diverse the products can be you can take a look to other manufacturers. The compact Dodge Caliber and Jeep Compass/Patriot twins are all based on the same Mitsubishi-developed platform that also underpins the new Lancer/Evo. The same architecture is stretched and also used for Chrysler’s Sebring sedan and convertible, the Dodge Avenger, the new Dodge Journey crossover, and will also be used by Mitsu for the new Eclipse, Gallant, and their crossovers.

You can also look to Ford as previously mentioned. The Euro Focus C1 platform has spawned the Mazda 3 and Volvo S40-family but few people also realize that they used that architecture as a basis for the new EUCD platform that underpins car like the Volvo S80. And for anyone that has seen how much bigger a car the S80 is over the Focus and that it includes things like AWD and a V8, that should give you an idea on what’s possible. We’re not necessarily talking badge engineering anymore (although that is still done, witness the BLS), but instead developing products that have certain characteristics and elements to leverage economies of scale and facilitate flexible production.

]]> By: Pedro http://www.trollhattansaab.net/archives/2008/05/more-talk-of-the-next-saab-9-3.html#comment-44881 Pedro Fri, 09 May 2008 10:30:40 +0000 http://www.trollhattansaab.net/?p=6236#comment-44881 Why not call them all 9-3 and offer hatches, a sedan and a wagon? Delta2 will be able to accomodate all those alternatives and an Epsilon2 9-3 would probably be too close in size and character to the NG 9-5. Why not call them all 9-3 and offer hatches, a sedan and a wagon? Delta2 will be able to accomodate all those alternatives and an Epsilon2 9-3 would probably be too close in size and character to the NG 9-5.

]]> By: Alex http://www.trollhattansaab.net/archives/2008/05/more-talk-of-the-next-saab-9-3.html#comment-44621 Alex Wed, 07 May 2008 00:11:40 +0000 http://www.trollhattansaab.net/?p=6236#comment-44621 According to the latest Car and Driver, their scoop on the 9-X Biohybrid is that it's a thinly-veiled glimpse at the production 9-1 which they expect to hit production around ~2010. They state that the hybrid drivetrain in the 9-X isn't just concept-car smoke and mirrors, but the real deal and almost ready for production. In the past they've rarely been wrong about these sorts of things so I fully expect that they said this based on what GM leaked to them. It makes sense when you look at the 9-1, beyond the camera mirrors, the rooftop solar panel and the wing there's very little of the car's exterior design that doesn't look production-ready. With that kind of production schedule a delta II-based 9-3 shouldn't be much further off. According to the latest Car and Driver, their scoop on the 9-X Biohybrid is that it’s a thinly-veiled glimpse at the production 9-1 which they expect to hit production around ~2010.

They state that the hybrid drivetrain in the 9-X isn’t just concept-car smoke and mirrors, but the real deal and almost ready for production. In the past they’ve rarely been wrong about these sorts of things so I fully expect that they said this based on what GM leaked to them.

It makes sense when you look at the 9-1, beyond the camera mirrors, the rooftop solar panel and the wing there’s very little of the car’s exterior design that doesn’t look production-ready.

With that kind of production schedule a delta II-based 9-3 shouldn’t be much further off.

]]> By: Markac http://www.trollhattansaab.net/archives/2008/05/more-talk-of-the-next-saab-9-3.html#comment-44616 Markac Tue, 06 May 2008 23:38:22 +0000 http://www.trollhattansaab.net/?p=6236#comment-44616 If the new 9-5 is six inches longer and the next 9-3 was to grow by the same amount, a new 9-3 would be about the size of a current 9-5. That all seems rather pointless. As quite a few people have said, if you want more room, buy the new 9-5. I think if the next 9-3 was to be a hatch again, it could grow by an inch or two to about the length of a C900. I for one, would definitely not like it to be any longer than that. The new Astra is slightly bigger, but a 9-1 would still end up being smaller than a 99. We'll all know the dimensions if/when we finally see a real prototype, not just a concept car. If the new 9-5 is six inches longer and the next 9-3 was to grow by the same amount, a new 9-3 would be about the size of a current 9-5. That all seems rather pointless. As quite a few people have said, if you want more room, buy the new 9-5.

I think if the next 9-3 was to be a hatch again, it could grow by an inch or two to about the length of a C900. I for one, would definitely not like it to be any longer than that.

The new Astra is slightly bigger, but a 9-1 would still end up being smaller than a 99.
We’ll all know the dimensions if/when we finally see a real prototype, not just a concept car.

]]> By: SK http://www.trollhattansaab.net/archives/2008/05/more-talk-of-the-next-saab-9-3.html#comment-44609 SK Tue, 06 May 2008 21:10:51 +0000 http://www.trollhattansaab.net/?p=6236#comment-44609 I just came from a Saab dealer meeting last week,(I'm a Saab Sales Manager) We saw a shaddow picture of the new 9-5 that looked pretty good from the roofline and windows to about the level of the door handles. The eyebrow lights will remain in the US models. Steve Shannon (US Saab President) said that the new 9-5 is going to be about 6 inches longer to make it more comfortable for grown up rear passengers. As a result it will be longer wider and bigger in just about all dimensions. It retains the hockey-stick rear window styling and steep windshield rake. It appeared to me as an evolutionary change in the body rather than a radical redesign. The new 9-5 will still be offered with a 2.3T in the base model giving it superior fuel economy in it's class. So expect the new 9-5 to be larger but still familiar from the styling standpoint. I just came from a Saab dealer meeting last week,(I’m a Saab Sales Manager) We saw a shaddow picture of the new 9-5 that looked pretty good from the roofline and windows to about the level of the door handles. The eyebrow lights will remain in the US models. Steve Shannon (US Saab President) said that the new 9-5 is going to be about 6 inches longer to make it more comfortable for grown up rear passengers. As a result it will be longer wider and bigger in just about all dimensions. It retains the hockey-stick rear window styling and steep windshield rake. It appeared to me as an evolutionary change in the body rather than a radical redesign. The new 9-5 will still be offered with a 2.3T in the base model giving it superior fuel economy in it’s class. So expect the new 9-5 to be larger but still familiar from the styling standpoint.

]]> By: ck1x http://www.trollhattansaab.net/archives/2008/05/more-talk-of-the-next-saab-9-3.html#comment-44604 ck1x Tue, 06 May 2008 19:50:00 +0000 http://www.trollhattansaab.net/?p=6236#comment-44604 People do have to consider that Saab probably is trying to make the 9-1 their hybrid vehicle of choice. In the vain that Toyata has Prius and Corolla. I think that even with the new Delta II platform though, Saab could keep the size of the new 9-3 to about the same capacity of the Lexus IS series. Which is fine with me if it does end up being less of a family car than it is now. I'd rather Saab go more of a sports coupe route than anything with the next 9-3. Maybe to compete with the Audi TT would be great. People do have to consider that Saab probably is trying to make the 9-1 their hybrid vehicle of choice. In the vain that Toyata has Prius and Corolla. I think that even with the new Delta II platform though, Saab could keep the size of the new 9-3 to about the same capacity of the Lexus IS series. Which is fine with me if it does end up being less of a family car than it is now. I’d rather Saab go more of a sports coupe route than anything with the next 9-3. Maybe to compete with the Audi TT would be great.

]]> By: edusaab http://www.trollhattansaab.net/archives/2008/05/more-talk-of-the-next-saab-9-3.html#comment-44585 edusaab Tue, 06 May 2008 16:49:10 +0000 http://www.trollhattansaab.net/?p=6236#comment-44585 Volvo has an experience with the S40, about using a compact platform(Ford Focus) for a sedan/medium range car. And the result is a shame and Volvo recognized it wasn't a good idea. And the next gen of the S60 will be the replacement of the S60 and the S40, and the S40 won't be available anymore. One of the big complaints if the S40, is the road quality and premium feeling of many parts that is more like a Ford Focus than a Premium Sedan. If the new 9-3 is going to have a roadholding and loose some of the premium feeling and has more a 9-1 and Astra feeling, then its a big mistake. What do you prefer to read in all the mag reviews?? "The 9-3 that uses the EpsilonII platform like the Opel Insignia" or "The 9-3 that uses the Delta platform like the Opel Astra". Those are the first words in every review of the 9-3. Its a big waste of resources to develop two different platforms, when like some other brands could develop internally one basic high quality plaftorm and then adapt it to different range of models. Why don't they develop the new 9-1 based in the EpsilonII?? why don't they do the synergies between different Saab models adapting the requirements of sizes and qualities taking as a reference the needs of every range?? like BMW with 3 series, 1 series.... and also 5 series. Commonly used suspension and platform parts. Audi with the A5 and A4.... and so. regards Volvo has an experience with the S40, about using a compact platform(Ford Focus) for a sedan/medium range car. And the result is a shame and Volvo recognized it wasn’t a good idea. And the next gen of the S60 will be the replacement of the S60 and the S40, and the S40 won’t be available anymore.

One of the big complaints if the S40, is the road quality and premium feeling of many parts that is more like a Ford Focus than a Premium Sedan.

If the new 9-3 is going to have a roadholding and loose some of the premium feeling and has more a 9-1 and Astra feeling, then its a big mistake.

What do you prefer to read in all the mag reviews?? “The 9-3 that uses the EpsilonII platform like the Opel Insignia” or “The 9-3 that uses the Delta platform like the Opel Astra”.

Those are the first words in every review of the 9-3.

Its a big waste of resources to develop two different platforms, when like some other brands could develop internally one basic high quality plaftorm and then adapt it to different range of models.

Why don’t they develop the new 9-1 based in the EpsilonII?? why don’t they do the synergies between different Saab models adapting the requirements of sizes and qualities taking as a reference the needs of every range??

like BMW with 3 series, 1 series…. and also 5 series. Commonly used suspension and platform parts. Audi with the A5 and A4…. and so.

regards

]]> By: Bernard http://www.trollhattansaab.net/archives/2008/05/more-talk-of-the-next-saab-9-3.html#comment-44584 Bernard Tue, 06 May 2008 16:47:14 +0000 http://www.trollhattansaab.net/?p=6236#comment-44584 This is great news. I don't think that the interior space will shrink, simply because they won't need to leave space for a big V6 or size the unibody and components for a car that's 300kg heavier. I would rather see the 9-3 be the biggest car on a smaller platform than the smallest car on a bigger platform. I am sure that Saab will make sure that it has best-in-class safety anyways. As I've said before, anybody who wants a 9-5 sized 9-3 can just buy the next 9-5 (provided it is not priced outrageously). This is great news. I don’t think that the interior space will shrink, simply because they won’t need to leave space for a big V6 or size the unibody and components for a car that’s 300kg heavier.

I would rather see the 9-3 be the biggest car on a smaller platform than the smallest car on a bigger platform. I am sure that Saab will make sure that it has best-in-class safety anyways.

As I’ve said before, anybody who wants a 9-5 sized 9-3 can just buy the next 9-5 (provided it is not priced outrageously).

]]> By: NJ_Nick http://www.trollhattansaab.net/archives/2008/05/more-talk-of-the-next-saab-9-3.html#comment-44583 NJ_Nick Tue, 06 May 2008 16:10:32 +0000 http://www.trollhattansaab.net/?p=6236#comment-44583 Reducing the weight and thus building a more fuel-efficient 9-3 makes sense (although I still would like more leg-space in the front seats). At this point the 9-5 gets similar EPA numbers as the 9-3 so I am all for the Delta II platform if, and only if, this is not compromising the class leading safety of the 9-3. And please keep working on the engines (especially the 2.8 V6) to make them more fuel-efficient as well. Reducing the weight and thus building a more fuel-efficient 9-3 makes sense (although I still would like more leg-space in the front seats). At this point the 9-5 gets similar EPA numbers as the 9-3 so I am all for the Delta II platform if, and only if, this is not compromising the class leading safety of the 9-3. And please keep working on the engines (especially the 2.8 V6) to make them more fuel-efficient as well.

]]> By: Iggy http://www.trollhattansaab.net/archives/2008/05/more-talk-of-the-next-saab-9-3.html#comment-44578 Iggy Tue, 06 May 2008 14:17:25 +0000 http://www.trollhattansaab.net/?p=6236#comment-44578 I don’t think that changing the platform will affect the future 9-3 badly. The old 9-3 was build on Opel Astra’s platform, if I remember correctly. I agree with Tiago, about the Volvo’s platform policy. I also think that SAAB might introduce another Volvo’s policy, the naming policy. One of the biggest complains on SAAB is that there are few models, but let’s compare it with Volvo: S40 = 9-3 SportSedan V50 = 9-3 SportCombi S80 = 9-5 SportSedan V70 = 9-5 SportCombi C70 = 9-3 Convertible XC90 = 9-7 XC 60 = 9-4 C30 = 9-1 The only model which is missing in SAAB’s palette is S60 (but its future as Volvo’s model is not bright) and XC70 (SAAB can easily introduce corresponding model by putting new higher suspension and some plastic around 9-3 XWD). Conclusion is that for few years ago (when XC 60 and C30 didn’t exist) model program of SAAB and Volvo was comparable, but when you read “SAAB has only 9-3 and 9-5” it doesn't sounds so good. So, maybe something to think at SAAB and introduce different model numbers for different 9-3 and 9-5 variants. I don’t think that changing the platform will affect the future 9-3 badly. The old 9-3 was build on Opel Astra’s platform, if I remember correctly. I agree with Tiago, about the Volvo’s platform policy. I also think that SAAB might introduce another Volvo’s policy, the naming policy. One of the biggest complains on SAAB is that there are few models, but let’s compare it with Volvo:

S40 = 9-3 SportSedan
V50 = 9-3 SportCombi
S80 = 9-5 SportSedan
V70 = 9-5 SportCombi
C70 = 9-3 Convertible
XC90 = 9-7
XC 60 = 9-4
C30 = 9-1

The only model which is missing in SAAB’s palette is S60 (but its future as Volvo’s model is not bright) and XC70 (SAAB can easily introduce corresponding model by putting new higher suspension and some plastic around 9-3 XWD).
Conclusion is that for few years ago (when XC 60 and C30 didn’t exist) model program of SAAB and Volvo was comparable, but when you read “SAAB has only 9-3 and 9-5” it doesn’t sounds so good. So, maybe something to think at SAAB and introduce different model numbers for different 9-3 and 9-5 variants.

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