Saab 9-5 and 9-3 future model news
Behold the second GM vehicle to be shown that will use the Epsilon II platform - The Buick Invicta concept.
This was revealed in Beijing overnight. Bear in mind that it’s a concept vehicle, but it is said to be pretty close to the final product. One would suggest that the rear roofline might be a tad higher and slightly less glassy on the road-going version.
This Buick is for China only at this stage, though I can well imagine some in the US saying why don’t you sell it here?
This comes hot on the heels of the official pictures of the Opel Insignia being let loose late last week. Again, the Insignia will be built on the new Epsilon II platform, the same architecture that will be used for the Saab 9-5 next year.
The big question is whether or not either of these can tell us anything about what’s coming in the next Saab 9-5. I guess they can hint at proportions and sizing. GM’s penchant for sharing parts (check out the similar grille openings on those two, for example) might suggest that the Saab could be similar in some areas, though hopefully the sheetmetal is completely different and the only common touches are hidden away.
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I heard from one Saab dealer over the weekend that the 9-5 could be due for a September 2009 release - and that’s here in Australia! If so, that would indicate a sooner-than expected arrival in other parts of the world.
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Albert has sent through a translation of an AutomobileWoche article, once again talking about the uncertainty surrounding the next Saab 9-3.
I’ve written about this before and it seems this story just won’t go away. I think some questions for Saab are in order here.
Exclusive: OPEL plant worries over utilization
The OPEL plant in Rüsselsheim worries over its utilization. The until 2018 contract (wherein GM assures the existence of the factory) has not been ratified. Among other things the GM management has not committed itself whether the next SAAB 9-3 will use the architecture of the Insignia.
Contrary to earlier statements of the works council, the utilization of the Opel factory in Rüsselsheim has not been secured yet. There is still no definite decision whether the Saab 9-3 will be built in Rüsselsheim, so say GM-sources to “Automobilwoche”.
With that it is just before the ratification of the “Standortsicherungsvertrages” uncertain whether the 6.000 employees can keep their jobs in the long run. “Some details are still open” a manager from GM Europe confirmed to the newspaper.
The 9-3, the best sold Saab-model, could be built on the Global Compact Architecture from GM. The Rüsselsheim plant is not laid out for this architecture. Because of this could not only the Saab entry-level model 9-1, but also the originally planned for Rüsselsheim 9-3, been built in the Swedish Trolhättan. With that, about 80.000 units would lack to the full utilization of the German mother-plant. Until now only the production of three variants of the Insignia, of which about 140.000 a year are planned, is sure. The maximum capacity in Rüsselsheim of 275.000 cars cannot be reached by that.
Long decision process.
Another battle point is the outsourcing-possibilities in areas that are not directly linked to car production, said a GM-employee. In the German facilities there are about a 1.000 jobs in danger by this. It is discussed for instance to outsource the security service ore the works fire brigade.
The long taking decision process around the 9-3 could also mean that the Swedish middle class limousine will come late to the market. Originally the production start was determined for 2010. “By now it will nearly be 2012” a GM employee said. The chairman of the works council, Klaus Franz, told already in November 2007 that the future of the plant was secure until 2018 but took this back later on. According to Franz the successors to the 9-3 and 9-5 as well as a crossover as a substitute for the wagons of the Swedes would be built alongside of the Insignia – all on the basis of the new Global Midsize Platform.
The 9-3 could well be headed for a 9-5-like timeframe, a decision that would surely hurt the brand in the next five years.
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This sounds scary. The all-new 9-3 desperately needs to be a MY10 car, else its sales will be no better than the current 9-5.
If GM screws Saab’s best-selling vehicle, this could mean devastating consequences for the brand.
Such a shame the bread and butter of Saab is in jeopardy over a problem so detached. Talk about negative externalities.
It would be great if the new 9-3 could be build in Trollhattan. Good for the brand and good for the Swedish workers.
There is going to be a crossover based on the 9-3 and 9-5?? I haven’t heard that on before. But I wonder how reliable this information is.
That Opel looks pretty hot…Id bet any Saab dealer in the world could sell a version. Shame TPTB twits will probably focus on Saturn and Pontiac. Seriously, the slow pace of new Saab product launch is irresponsible.
2012!! That is most definitely NOT good news.
That Opel looks nice too.
I’m soooooo excited for the new Buicks…the LaCrosse desperately needs to be replaced, and that Invicta would be a hell of a replacement. The Invicta concept has a 260 hp turbo 4, by the way.
bring the 9-3 as a 2012 model and your dead!
What is the problem with the eII platform? The new Insignia will be a direct competitor, just like the other almost 4.80m cars… when the next 9-3 will not arrive either on time, nor on a wheelbase of this size it will be dead born. Well done GM… sometimes i think your are idiots, but then - this would be too dumb, even for you, sacking the 9-3. Thanx for the brand commitment… but what do I complain, there are soooo many luxury or premium brands within GM
considering the money about that’s being invested in Saab over the next few years, I can’t help but wonder why the 9-3 08MY wasn’t on ep-II? You would have had a premium brand launch with the platform as well… Launching the insignia doesn’t make any real sense unless…
OPEL stamped their feet until they finally got first go with the new toy.
Or is OPEL breaking into the premium sector?
If that’s the case then what we see here is still the same typical mish-mash of brands that are still not clearly defined.
Cadillac luxury? (not even close)
Saab premium? (barely)
OPEL Premium? (brand name not strong enough)
I could carry on but the thought is disturbing to say the least.
The Insignia looks a very nice car indeed and when the 9-5 comes I know I will be amazed by its looks. But when is OPEL going to realise it has 2 brands under it’s belt?
As for the news, personally I thinks it’s all hype to the rattle the workers. Seems like Rüsselsheim wants to produce everything so answer is.
Lets upset the workers, they’ll go on strike again and we’ll get what we want again….
So… Saab keeps on with only ONE model younger than 10 years in the lineup, when all the competitors have no car older than about 5 years.
That’s not good enough. It has never been good enough, but it has always been the Saab way.
Another question:
why does GM bother with different brands when they all look like Opel? Go 100 % rebadged Opel instead - that ought to save some money.
If the NG9-3 was going to be launched in 2010 then a heck of alot of money has already been invested in that car. It´s general design has been drawn and produced in clay or more, the chassie has been tested over and over, the whole electrical schematics has been made etc etc… Why go and throw that away now? I´m a Swede.. But for the sake of the brand, produce the NG 9-3 in Rüsselsheim alongside the 9-5 and Insignia. Trollhattan can produce the 9-1 and some variants of the Astra.. I´m cool with that.
My opinion on the 93, and I believe I’ve read it here in the past, is that Saab/GM are examining the future market options for a ’smaller’ medium level vehicle on the basis of the benefits to the cars weight, handling and economy, as well as the SAAB=’responsible performance’ market pitch.
Personally I like the logic, its just a shame its about 2-3 years too late. Facts are that a new shape vectra/mondeo/A4 are as long as current BM 5 series, The Monde is actually longer than a V70!! Yes the additional space is great but to be honest, I’d put up with the current space available in a 93 if it gave me a faster, lighter, better handling, & more economic vehicle than its competitors.
However, would I purchase in 2010-2011, the 93 a freshened version of a 9 year old design?
I like it now but in 2-3 yrs, not a chance, and neither will anyone else unless its sold at such levels of discount that it damages the brand again
As a final note to GM, the solution is simple, make your decision now & ramp up the 93 for production in MY2010
Hi,
would not be surpriced if the 9-3 will be for 2011 or 2012.
Quite a lot of money has gone into the current model (XWD and upcomming crossover) and to have a 2 year payback time on that is not much….
On the other hand - I am not sure that a 2012 release would be that bad for the brand. Its important always to have something fresh in the pipeline. Next year boththe 9-4 and 9-5 will be due, so that takes us well into 2009. You do not want the next news to come too close to that because after that there will not be much.
Also, I agree that its a bout scaring the workers but on another side, they are talking about securing the jobs after 2018 which is a very long time down the road…..
No complaints here. Having the 9-3 on the same platform as the 9-5 would make them too similar in terms of size and performance (again).
I definitely think that the time is right for a smaller, lighter, sportier 9-3. Something more like a 900/NG900.
If people are in the market for an Epsilon II-sized vehicle, they can just get a new 9-5 anyways (assuming that it is priced reasonably), so why should Saab confuse it’s customers with a badge-engineered competitor that’s wearing the same badge?
With the sliding USD$, I bet Saab is examining Mexico and the U.S. for the next-gen 9-3 production.
Joe Meek, I think you made a point there.
Anyone, would you think the next Lexus IS built on a Corolla platform ? Neither do I.
The question is not that an epsilon II based 9-3 would be just as big as an Insignia, Mondeo or something like that. We are told that variations in size are possible. But one of the complaints made by people not buying a 9-3 is the small size. A Golf or Astra has the same interior size as the current 9-3. That’s where the 9-1 should be. The coming 9-3 should have some 4 cm more legroom in the back than it has now, plus a little bit of extra front legroom. IMO there is no need for a wider body.
The new 9-5 should grow way more to get back on the playing field with MB E-Class, Audi A6 etc.
Time frame: I can understand that Saab will have problems introducing 4 new cars in 2 years time. I don’t think it will happen, but I rather see the 9-1 postponed than the 9-3. 10 years production run is too long. The development costs for the XWD are coming back via Opel (it will be available in the Insignia) so that’s no problem.
Building the new 9-3 on delta is in my view complete nonsens. as Riku points out, the next lexus IS will not be based on the Corolla! And the next Volvo S60 (if it comes) will not be based on the Ford Focus.
When Saab builds the 9-3 on Delta and Opel builds the Insignia on Epsilon II, what situation do you get? The higher priced vehicle is on the simpler platform. Is that the way a “premium” producer should think?
To me it is quite clear, I will not buy a 9-3 on delta.period. I do like the new Audi A4 (turbo 1.8 or 2.0 liter, just big enough, 10% better fuel economy) or the MB C-Class (also charged engines, just roomy enough).
Saab is already threading in dead waters in Canada. Fortunately for Saab Saturn dealers, Saturn’s version of the Insignia (Aura) will help them get over the loss.
On the other hand, I think the Invicta concept is one ugly car, which hasn’t been the case with GM concepts in recent years.
Albert:
Good points with regard to the chassis quality issues with regard to building a 93 on an extended Delta.
Fundamentally Saab would need the 93 to exude quality if they were to build it to the same footprint of the current model, otherwise known as ‘downsizing’. Can this be done on a Delta platform?
I have no idea.
But there is a ball to be caught here by Saab, with regards to vehicle lightness/efficiency, which chimes with their environmental credentials nicely. Mazda have already got the 2 & 6, both of which are lighter than their predecessors, and have received plaudits from the motoring press for it.
It is reasonable to assume that in 3-6yrs in the euro zone at least, the likes of the Monde, Insignia & the A4 will be regarded as slow, and unwieldy unless a suitably powerful engine is inside, which makes them uneconomic & unwieldy. Joe Blogs who likes a fairly sporty drive, does quite a few miles, would like the ability to burn off your bloated repmobiles etc but wants to get at least 35-40mpg from a turbo petrol 4cyl or 60mpg from a diesel, would consider Saab as a viable alternative even if he hasn’t go enough room for a coffin & pallbearers inside.
This then brings me to where my argument falls down. The next Astra @ Trollhatten is the basis for the ‘potential’ 91. Following the design path that OPEL are on with the Insignia, looks like this ones gonna be a bloater, which would make the 91 a bloater and if the 93 is not on an Epi2 platform its more than likely going to be a rebadged 91 with a boot. That doesn’t bear thinking about tbh.
What the farg is the point of a generic car with a Saab body on it? This has nothing to do with Saab. I want to buy a Saab, not an “Epsilon II” with a Saab-ish body welded on.
A Saab, to me, is an inline 4 cylinder engine designed in Sweden by Saab engineers - preferably Turbo-Charged.
I agree with many above, that Opel looks great. I would re-work the front, maybe a little less grille and a slightly lower profile.
Russelheim, Trollhattan, it’s all good. The Swedes are the heart-felt favorite, but if it meant that the cars would debut a year earlier build them in Morocco for crying out loud. Just get on with it!
Both vehicles shown appear to be on the smaller side. If the next gen 9-5 is to share the same platform, then it may just be as small. I really didn’t envision a small 9-5. I do find the Opel quite attractive though.
I thought that it was stated the 9-5 would be on an extended version of the epII and the 9-3 would be an epII model as is the Opel Insignia. maybe they are looking from a marketing standpoint. Saab really doesn’t have the budget to market 2 new products let alone 4 in a 3 year time span. Even Cady has been given only 1 new product with some considerable time between the next new Cady. But if it’s done properly that’s all you need sometimes. The CTS is a breath of fresh air to Cadillac and hopefully the new Saab line-up can do some of the same!!
With the amount of modifications and updates applied to the MY2008 9-3, it reminded me of when the OG9-3 was released and how many upgrades it had over the NG900. I feel the upraded 9-3 will have to last at least as long as the OG9-3, so 2012 seems about right?
Seems like those strong rumours about the next 9-3 using an extended Delta II platform have some truth to them? It would be nice to keep the 9-3 in Trollhattan. Sadly I feel the other Saaab that could use the new Delta II platform, the 9-1, may never see the light of day.
I think GM’s plans for Saab all hinge on the new 9-5. I’m guessing we’ll all know what they are by the end of next year?