Comments on: Saab 9-1 and 9-3 – the Saab response http://www.trollhattansaab.net/archives/2008/04/saab-9-1-and-9-3-the-saab-response.html Saab 9-1, 9-3, 9-4x, 9-5, 9-7x News Thu, 11 Dec 2008 06:34:22 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Markac http://www.trollhattansaab.net/archives/2008/04/saab-9-1-and-9-3-the-saab-response.html#comment-43786 Markac Thu, 24 Apr 2008 23:56:02 +0000 http://www.trollhattansaab.net/?p=6043#comment-43786 A more space efficient 9-3 with similar proportions to the current one would be good. It could use a stretched Delta II platform with significant changes over the next Astra's so I don't see a problem. It could end up being the most customized Saab platfrom in existence by then? A more space efficient 9-3 with similar proportions to the current one would be good. It could use a stretched Delta II platform with significant changes over the next Astra’s so I don’t see a problem. It could end up being the most customized Saab platfrom in existence by then?

]]> By: ck1x http://www.trollhattansaab.net/archives/2008/04/saab-9-1-and-9-3-the-saab-response.html#comment-43780 ck1x Thu, 24 Apr 2008 23:12:30 +0000 http://www.trollhattansaab.net/?p=6043#comment-43780 I think people are taking this way out of context here. Just because they are looking at a smaller platform to use doesn't mean they will be sacraficing it's size by much if any. Plus if they reduce the weight they can use smaller turbo charged engines, hence the term "Right sizing" the engines. Most people would never know that the Ford Focus and Volvo S40 share the same platform. Our current 9-3 just looks big on the outside, as far as the inside goes it might as well be a compact car. I love my 9-3 and all but I think Saab would be going in the right direction to differentiate the 9-3 from the 9-5, they compete with each other. I think people are taking this way out of context here. Just because they are looking at a smaller platform to use doesn’t mean they will be sacraficing it’s size by much if any. Plus if they reduce the weight they can use smaller turbo charged engines, hence the term “Right sizing” the engines. Most people would never know that the Ford Focus and Volvo S40 share the same platform. Our current 9-3 just looks big on the outside, as far as the inside goes it might as well be a compact car. I love my 9-3 and all but I think Saab would be going in the right direction to differentiate the 9-3 from the 9-5, they compete with each other.

]]> By: albert http://www.trollhattansaab.net/archives/2008/04/saab-9-1-and-9-3-the-saab-response.html#comment-43773 albert Thu, 24 Apr 2008 20:47:22 +0000 http://www.trollhattansaab.net/?p=6043#comment-43773 Well, I’m glad mr. Geers took the chance to react. But are we any wiser now? The 9-1: I hope this will be not a project of the same kind as the 9X and the 9-3X concepts. Nice plans but how long did it take before something came out of it? 9-3: Mr. Geers quotes Bob Lutz “….said at the Geneva auto show that we study the possibility to build the 9-3 of a new premium compact architecture. One of the reasons being the C02 legislation as we would be able to reduce weight.” It would be nicer to focus on things like direct injection, two clutch gearboxes etc. Current 9-3 is about the worst performer where it concerns the fuel consumption. At least on paper; I am not unhappy with the fuel consumption of my 9-3, but where I live sales tax is (among other things) determined by fuel consumption. Weight reduction me be a good point, regarding the fact that the Insignia is 100kg heavier than the outgoing Vectra. When that new premium compact architecture would be different from the Astra platform no one would be complaining, but I fear that won’t be the case. Even now people are teasing “hey, you ‘re driving a modified Vectra, right? And that will only be worse when a smaller (read: lesser) platform will be used. I can’t picture a new 9-3 based on an Astra and bringing that to the market for a higher price than an Insignia costs. Buyers will not accept that. If Saab has made a decision about the 9-1, than the smaller 9-3 is already in the making. No need for two smaller cars. Or will the 9-1 be based on the Corsa? Than we can have interesting discussions about the usage of the next Gamma platform developed by GM DAT (think Aveo). According to the Auto Motor und Sport of today the decision has already been taken. Mr Geers tells us that nothing has been decided yet. Let’s hope mr. Geers is right. OK, than rethink the whole thing on the basis of where you want to be with your brand image. If you want to be premium than think and act premium. Be the best or be on par. There are no prizes for middleclass. That’s what mr. Piëch did with Audi in the nineties. It was Piëch that had the vision to visualise the feeling of quality and only after that Audi got on the way up. Some bad thinking: Is there a need for a 9-3 that will not grow the much needed few centimetres because the new 9-5 will not have much more extra space than the current one? Well, I’m glad mr. Geers took the chance to react. But are we any wiser now?
The 9-1: I hope this will be not a project of the same kind as the 9X and the 9-3X concepts. Nice plans but how long did it take before something came out of it?

9-3: Mr. Geers quotes Bob Lutz “….said at the Geneva auto show that we study the possibility to build the 9-3 of a new premium compact architecture. One of the reasons being the C02 legislation as we would be able to reduce weight.”
It would be nicer to focus on things like direct injection, two clutch gearboxes etc. Current 9-3 is about the worst performer where it concerns the fuel consumption. At least on paper; I am not unhappy with the fuel consumption of my 9-3, but where I live sales tax is (among other things) determined by fuel consumption.
Weight reduction me be a good point, regarding the fact that the Insignia is 100kg heavier than the outgoing Vectra.

When that new premium compact architecture would be different from the Astra platform no one would be complaining, but I fear that won’t be the case. Even now people are teasing “hey, you ‘re driving a modified Vectra, right? And that will only be worse when a smaller (read: lesser) platform will be used. I can’t picture a new 9-3 based on an Astra and bringing that to the market for a higher price than an Insignia costs. Buyers will not accept that.

If Saab has made a decision about the 9-1, than the smaller 9-3 is already in the making. No need for two smaller cars. Or will the 9-1 be based on the Corsa? Than we can have interesting discussions about the usage of the next Gamma platform developed by GM DAT (think Aveo).

According to the Auto Motor und Sport of today the decision has already been taken. Mr Geers tells us that nothing has been decided yet. Let’s hope mr. Geers is right. OK, than rethink the whole thing on the basis of where you want to be with your brand image. If you want to be premium than think and act premium. Be the best or be on par. There are no prizes for middleclass.
That’s what mr. Piëch did with Audi in the nineties. It was Piëch that had the vision to visualise the feeling of quality and only after that Audi got on the way up.

Some bad thinking: Is there a need for a 9-3 that will not grow the much needed few centimetres because the new 9-5 will not have much more extra space than the current one?

]]> By: J http://www.trollhattansaab.net/archives/2008/04/saab-9-1-and-9-3-the-saab-response.html#comment-43755 J Thu, 24 Apr 2008 17:00:30 +0000 http://www.trollhattansaab.net/?p=6043#comment-43755 Rodney Durso wrote: " Well, it’s funny but it’s really simple. Saab owners are similar to Suburu owners in some key ways. We like to haul stuff around, all kinds of stuff, like the odd antique table from the roadside sale, or a harpsichord, or more basic life stuff like big sheddy dogs or cases upon cases of bottled water." *raises hand* except i never hauled a harpsichord in my outback wagon. ;-) i'm a subaru owner who (given the chance) will trade UP for a '99-'02 9-3 hatch. Rodney Durso wrote:

” Well, it’s funny but it’s really simple. Saab owners are similar to Suburu owners in some key ways. We like to haul stuff around, all kinds of stuff, like the odd antique table from the roadside sale, or a harpsichord, or more basic life stuff like big sheddy dogs or cases upon cases of bottled water.”

*raises hand*

except i never hauled a harpsichord in my outback wagon.
;-)

i’m a subaru owner who (given the chance) will trade UP for
a ’99-’02 9-3 hatch.

]]> By: progolf http://www.trollhattansaab.net/archives/2008/04/saab-9-1-and-9-3-the-saab-response.html#comment-43729 progolf Thu, 24 Apr 2008 08:46:47 +0000 http://www.trollhattansaab.net/?p=6043#comment-43729 It's the Allroad/XC version of the SportCombi with XWD that's coming early next year (confirmed by a dealer). XWD will eventually filter through to the TTiD and other versions of the 9-3, but it will take some time, because the multilink rear axle is modified to incorporate the XWD. The diesel versions may not get the XWD before they switch from the FIAT/Alfa 1.9l engines to GM's own new 1.6/2.0l diesel engines (due to launch in Opel this fall). Next with XWD will be 2.0l BioPower. It’s the Allroad/XC version of the SportCombi with XWD that’s coming early next year (confirmed by a dealer). XWD will eventually filter through to the TTiD and other versions of the 9-3, but it will take some time, because the multilink rear axle is modified to incorporate the XWD. The diesel versions may not get the XWD before they switch from the FIAT/Alfa 1.9l engines to GM’s own new 1.6/2.0l diesel engines (due to launch in Opel this fall). Next with XWD will be 2.0l BioPower.

]]> By: mark_belfast http://www.trollhattansaab.net/archives/2008/04/saab-9-1-and-9-3-the-saab-response.html#comment-43727 mark_belfast Thu, 24 Apr 2008 08:18:53 +0000 http://www.trollhattansaab.net/?p=6043#comment-43727 Whether the 9-3 can survive without huge fall in sales is not the question - I believe it is a certainty that the 9-3 sales will start to fall after next year as the underlying motor is by then 8 years old and the facelift we all think was dramatic has actually gone relatively unnoticed by non-Saabists, the people we need to convert to the brand. That's one bad thing about a facelift, it actually serves to highlights the age of the vehicle (and I think the 9-3 had gotten away with its age fairly well) and puts in people's minds that it had received some vital cosmetic surgery before it bows out gracefully. Someone above made comment that major changes dont occur unless several years are expected til replacement. Depends on your resources of course since Audi's A4 was only required to last a further 2 years on its last facelift and it was still ahead of the 9-3 at that stage in terms of build and range of models. If GM don't get a new 9-3 to market by late 2010, then the credibility of the brand is fatally wounded, sales of hte core model will be in nosedive like the 9-5 now, and Saab will be cap-in-hand for GM's charity to tide them over. I really fear if this is the future and can't believe the 9-3 will be allowed to suffer the ignominy of the 9-5's painful demise. Whether the 9-3 can survive without huge fall in sales is not the question – I believe it is a certainty that the 9-3 sales will start to fall after next year as the underlying motor is by then 8 years old and the facelift we all think was dramatic has actually gone relatively unnoticed by non-Saabists, the people we need to convert to the brand.
That’s one bad thing about a facelift, it actually serves to highlights the age of the vehicle (and I think the 9-3 had gotten away with its age fairly well) and puts in people’s minds that it had received some vital cosmetic surgery before it bows out gracefully.
Someone above made comment that major changes dont occur unless several years are expected til replacement. Depends on your resources of course since Audi’s A4 was only required to last a further 2 years on its last facelift and it was still ahead of the 9-3 at that stage in terms of build and range of models.

If GM don’t get a new 9-3 to market by late 2010, then the credibility of the brand is fatally wounded, sales of hte core model will be in nosedive like the 9-5 now, and Saab will be cap-in-hand for GM’s charity to tide them over. I really fear if this is the future and can’t believe the 9-3 will be allowed to suffer the ignominy of the 9-5′s painful demise.

]]> By: Markac http://www.trollhattansaab.net/archives/2008/04/saab-9-1-and-9-3-the-saab-response.html#comment-43721 Markac Thu, 24 Apr 2008 04:58:25 +0000 http://www.trollhattansaab.net/?p=6043#comment-43721 Swade: I think you're right. We a decent interior makeover and improved quality control, the 9-3 stands a good chance of lasting to a MY2012 replacement arrives. It probably has to? Any later than that though, it will encounter the same problems as the current ancient 9-5, namely minimal sales. I was once a strong VW/Audi fan, but Saab lured me away twenty years ago! Swade: I think you’re right. We a decent interior makeover and improved quality control, the 9-3 stands a good chance of lasting to a MY2012 replacement arrives. It probably has to? Any later than that though, it will encounter the same problems as the current ancient 9-5, namely minimal sales.

I was once a strong VW/Audi fan, but Saab lured me away twenty years ago!

]]> By: Bruce http://www.trollhattansaab.net/archives/2008/04/saab-9-1-and-9-3-the-saab-response.html#comment-43718 Bruce Thu, 24 Apr 2008 04:42:55 +0000 http://www.trollhattansaab.net/?p=6043#comment-43718 Rodney D made several good points. Saturn and SAAB share most shops in Canada (a few remote Saturn dealers do not sell SAABs). The combination works very well, now GM's Euro-shop in this market. The brands are complementary. Hummer and Cadillac belong with Buick and Pontiac. Credit to GM for responding. Rodney D made several good points. Saturn and SAAB share most shops in Canada (a few remote Saturn dealers do not sell SAABs). The combination works very well, now GM’s Euro-shop in this market. The brands are complementary. Hummer and Cadillac belong with Buick and Pontiac. Credit to GM for responding.

]]> By: ck1x http://www.trollhattansaab.net/archives/2008/04/saab-9-1-and-9-3-the-saab-response.html#comment-43717 ck1x Thu, 24 Apr 2008 04:20:06 +0000 http://www.trollhattansaab.net/?p=6043#comment-43717 Remeber Kroum were not talking about what Audi would do or has done. GM is in a entirely different situation than Volkswagen. They have 3 premium brands struggling for their fathers attention and only 2 hands to feed them. Each is trying obtain it's own identity and it's like being on a speed dating show. GM doesn't have forever to figure out which brands are going to do what for them. Volkswagen only had Audi to grow and get profitable. So as it's main priority they could afford to take the time with Audi and get it right. All that most of us are asking is that GM give Saab at least 1 car treatment in the vain of the CTS. Cady isn't exactly where GM wants them to be either but that doesn't stop them from producing a coupe version of Cady's most popular selling car! The fact is if GM really wanted the sales of the 9-3 to really spike then the restyle should have been a little more drastic on the front and rear ends and a 260hp and 300hp XWD Aero and Viggen(Turbo) spec should have been at launch. I think most of us would be forgiving that the interior is dated if these were options to choose from.. Remeber Kroum were not talking about what Audi would do or has done. GM is in a entirely different situation than Volkswagen. They have 3 premium brands struggling for their fathers attention and only 2 hands to feed them. Each is trying obtain it’s own identity and it’s like being on a speed dating show. GM doesn’t have forever to figure out which brands are going to do what for them. Volkswagen only had Audi to grow and get profitable. So as it’s main priority they could afford to take the time with Audi and get it right. All that most of us are asking is that GM give Saab at least 1 car treatment in the vain of the CTS. Cady isn’t exactly where GM wants them to be either but that doesn’t stop them from producing a coupe version of Cady’s most popular selling car! The fact is if GM really wanted the sales of the 9-3 to really spike then the restyle should have been a little more drastic on the front and rear ends and a 260hp and 300hp XWD Aero and Viggen(Turbo) spec should have been at launch. I think most of us would be forgiving that the interior is dated if these were options to choose from..

]]> By: turbin http://www.trollhattansaab.net/archives/2008/04/saab-9-1-and-9-3-the-saab-response.html#comment-43716 turbin Thu, 24 Apr 2008 04:13:27 +0000 http://www.trollhattansaab.net/?p=6043#comment-43716 "they don’t squeal and rattle nearly as much as my 9-3 sedan." My 9-3 Sportcombi and 9000 only sqeal and rattle when my baby boys are in the back ; ) “they don’t squeal and rattle nearly as much as my 9-3 sedan.”

My 9-3 Sportcombi and 9000 only sqeal and rattle when my baby boys are in the back ; )

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