17 responses so far ↓

• 1 sebbe // Apr 10, 2008 at 10:20 pm

  Haven’t read the original article, but it gets me chills just thinking about Saab being sold to the Chinese or Indians… I feel sorry for Volvo too, but at least AB Volvo could buy it back to protect the brand. Saab is alone in the dark…
  Will post my impressions later.

• 2 Markac // Apr 10, 2008 at 11:29 pm

  That article makes a lot of sense even if it is somewhat harsh? I think GM’s window of opportunity with Saab is almost gone. They have dallied just a bit too long. They need to act now or walk away. Anyway I’m guessing they’ve already made their decision. I’m pretty certain we’ll know what that is within a year?

• 3 bizhaoqi // Apr 11, 2008 at 12:56 am

  For what it’s worth, in my opinion (and from what I see on the street), Pontiac and Saturn are doing much better than they have in years. Perhaps this is due to their borrowing of models from Opel and Holden, but hey, isn’t that one of the great advantages of being a global car company?

  Another thought: As foolish as it may seem to continue to produce models under both the Chevy and GMC brands, there are diehards for each. Some people will only buy Chevy trucks, and others will only buy GMC trucks. Ford has boasted for a long time that the F-150 is the “best-selling vehicle” in the US, almost always narrowly beating out Chevy. Well, if you add the Chevy and GMC numbers together they far eclipse Ford. Yet people still stick to the same brand of truck their families have owned for generations.

• 4 john // Apr 11, 2008 at 1:59 am

  Well, it’s unfortunate that Saab is basically overlooked by GM, but then, many do wish Saab had never gone to this giant company. Saab should go to a European brand. How does anyone expect survival in such a competitive world where marketing/advertising dictates. Saab has zero marketing support in the US. More later…

• 5 sebbe // Apr 11, 2008 at 2:24 am

  Well, Saab has always been poorly managed. Wallenberg Family did little for it, and then GM bought 50% of the stakes and did nothing for it, besides rushing Saab 900 NG to the market and downgrading the brand.
  Then, after 10 years they come back and bought the rest of the company, and did nothing good.
  When the 9-x concept was launched in 2003 and everybody expected a small Saab that would compete with Audi’s A3, Rick Wagoner said “No, Saab has spent too much money, let’s punish them”.
  And then is the commercialization problem; marketing department at Saab is a shame!

  I don’t thing GM could sell Saab easily, though. It depends so much on GM’s structure that it’s not a company anymore, just a factory.
  For what’s worth, GM is an empty carcass; its only purpose was to be the biggest car maker in the world, and now it has fail in achieving that goal too.
  I’ve thought a lot about it and I’m sure that with the proper management and some buckets of cash Saab could survive on it’s own, fight its way to a position comparable to that of Audi and be a real premium car manufacturer.

  I’m sorry because they missed the train, but I think they can be back on their feet.
  Where the heck are the vikings when you need them? We need some Swedes with balls!

• 6 Mike C. // Apr 11, 2008 at 3:00 am

  I firmly believe that GM will dump Saab, GM’s actions speak for it self. It WAS a premium brand, no more. Audi/MB/Lexus/BMW that is the perception of premium in today market. The Saab is a great car, it’s the company that’s not. Sebbe, let’s hope you are correct and the Sewdes take back Saab and do the proper thing.

• 7 fred // Apr 11, 2008 at 4:05 am

  I dunno…this Pete guy is detached from reality on several levels. Severing dealers/brands costs what?? $5mil easy per franchise? Highly unlikely.

  Fuel is going to be solidly over $4/gal here this year(and for who knows how long) and even Lutz knows this is going to kill V8s and dent V6 sales.

  The market IMHO is sick of SUVs, AWDs, the constant “over-blinging” and is looking for roomy, efficient, practical yet quick, sedans, wagons, even hatchbacks….gee pretty much what Saab makes. GM needs quit over-looking their “Cinderella”.

• 8 Frank A // Apr 11, 2008 at 4:08 am

  Honestly GM has too many brands. While not a Delorenzo fan, he is correct in that the franchise laws are what are keeping GM from closing down more brands. I have come around to the fact that GM will sell SAAB. Here is my reasoning. Opel can take SAAB’s place in GMs Euro line up. I know it hurts to hear this, but the fact is SAAB is not a luxury brand. I’m not sure it is even a premium brand any longer. What do you really get from SAAB that you don’t or can’t get from Opel? In the US SAAB is virtually invisible outside of the North East. When buyers think about European luxury brands I guarantee you they do not think about SAAB. Audi, BMW and Mercedes is as far as it goes.

  Everything I have read about the upcoming Opel Insignia indicates a much more upscale car than the Vectra. With the Corsa, new Astra, Meriva and Zafira, what does GM Europe need with SAAB? Every car company these days does well with safety ratings, so SAAB can’t even claim that. Every car company makes at least one turbo engine so SAAB can’t claim that either. The fact they have been at it longer than most is irrelevant to most buyers. GM is committed to selling Cadillac in Europe and since Caddy is selling well in the USA any additional sales from Europe or China is gravy. My guess is SAAB will be sold after the Insignia establishes itself, and the new rear drive Caddy BLS hits the market, probably 2009 or 2010. At that point SAAB will have a new 9-5, 9-4x and possibly a 9-3, and a 9-1 waiting in the wings.

• 9 Andy Rupert // Apr 11, 2008 at 5:16 am

  The possible sale of SAAB is an interesting prospect. No doubt people will be watching how Tata does with Jaguar and Land Rover to see if the sale or purchase of SAAB would be a plausible idea.

  But before we get too down on Ford or GM for what they did to “our” favorite brands, you have to remember what was happening before the sales. Jaguar was known for poor quality and SAAB’s sales were dropping faster than the Corvair’s after Unsafe at Any Speed hit the street. With that in mind, you have to admit that Ford and GM did keep the brands going.

  However, as many of us have noted here and in previous comments, things just aren’t the same at Trollhattan. We wish the car was Swedish again and can’t seem to understand what GM is thinking or doing. But we’re cautiously optimistic. We still get excited about the new ideas SAAB is pushing out.

  So, I’d suggest that we not get bent out of shape about the whole deal. As much as we have liked the brand in the past, it’s probably never going to be what it used to be. It’ll probably remain a niche brand that any present or future owner will never completely understand. Time will tell how things go. Until then, keep your shirt on, open the moon roof, and enjoy the ride.

• 10 Mag-X // Apr 11, 2008 at 9:44 am

  With the rapid ground-up model development they’ve been doing, I simply cannot fathom the amounts of cash GM has thrown at Saab vs. the other brands which are just importing and re-badging cars from other GM brands not sold in the U.S.

  For better or worse, GM seems to be cautiously committed to Saab.

• 11 sebbe // Apr 11, 2008 at 8:56 pm

  FRANK A: “What do you really get from SAAB that you don’t or can’t get from Opel?”
  Frank, I really don’t know where are you from, possibly from the US. You don’t seem to know that Oper is to Europe what Chevrolet is for the States; popcorn. You’ll never sell an Opel as a luxury car. That’s the reason why GM bought Saab in the first place, they needed an European luxury brand. Americans don’t seem to understand what Europeans want in a car (no offense intended, really!).

  FRANK A: “GM is committed to selling Cadillac in Europe and since Caddy is selling well in the USA any additional sales from Europe or China is gravy. My guess is SAAB will be sold after the Insignia establishes itself”
  Wait and see my friend, Cadillac will never be a mass selling car in Europe; they won’t even sell as many cars to keep them into business in Europe. Besides, Cadillac is doing well in the US “today”; it’s too early to say if they have a future, if they can stand on its own.

  And finally, “that Pete guy” as someone call him here doesn’t seem to understand much, apart from the US market (and I’m not even sure about that either).

  “What if the economy does go deep into a sustained national recession? Or, what if gasoline continues to go upward in price and the supply gets threatened?”
  Well buddy, you’re already are in a recession that will drag the entire world. Everybody saw it coming, everybody knows America has been in recession for quite a long time, now you’re in a crisis.
  As for the gasoline prices, I’m not sure the price will continue to go up; but there’s no consensus about that, and I don’t have enough background to defend my position. The supply won’t get threatened, that’s a fact.

  “”What if’s?” are not the kind of advance planning scenarios that a car company can spend a lot of time on”.
  And what are CEOs, CFOs, and all their minions paid for if not to steer the company now into the future in financial safety? The fact that they don’t do anything about it doesn’t mean they don’t spend time with scenarios. For god’s sake! that’s a pretty naïve thing to say!

  “As for Saab, it’s a money-losing entity that GM will not be able to afford to keep much longer anyway”.
  Please!, give me a brake! GM could’ve done great thing with Saab if they’ve been more clever fifteen years ago when they bought the 50% of the company! It’s GM’s fault anyway; they planned to buy the entire company from the Swedes anyway, so why linger for 10 years, then bought the rest of it and start punishing people? Where’s the sense in that???

• 12 Frank A // Apr 11, 2008 at 9:59 pm

  sebbe, GM did not have the money to develop SAAB until recently. Even now their financial situation is still pretty weak. 10 years ago their focus was on their large profit vehicles, trucks and SUVs, which gave them the money to buy SAAB. You are correct 10 years ago was the time to develop SAAB. That was poor planning on their part. as for Opel, my point is SAAB is not a luxury brand. GM and us SAAB fans may want it to be, but it is not. Here in the states I would say it is not even a premium brand. Opel will be moved slightly upmarket and Chevrolet will become the “value” brand in Europe. If you look at GM’s strategy it is clear that is where they are going. It does not matter that Cadillac never becomes a big seller in Europe, any European sales is just extra profits. The cars are built in the US and shipped overseas. The next gen BLS will probably be built in Europe like the current version and Caddy will be pitched as a rear drive BMW competitor. I don’t know if this will work, but I never say never. really it does not matter what I think as GM is committed to this strategyI remember hearing the same things about Lexus years ago. It is all about brand positioning, products and advertising.

• 13 sebbe // Apr 11, 2008 at 11:23 pm

  Frank, I really can’t believe that an entity as GM was buying halves of companies (like Saab and Fiat) and when they didn’t have the money to develop them; then why buying stocks anyway? They’re stupids, if you ask me, no-brains. Opel is exactly the same that Chevrolet, it’s the European face of Chevy! They can sell Opel AND Chevy in Europe, because they will be competing against each other. But GM has made that mistake in the past, I can see them doing it again. They’ve already tried to move upmarket Opel and they failed miserably!
  And every Caddy sold in Europe it’s not just extra bucks, because they’re investing money in advertising, structure, etc… It’s not that simple (and of course my version is a simplified version of the truth).

  Isn’t BLS being produced in Trollhättan already? Cadillac can’t compete against BMW; it is too American! They need an European to compete against BMW!

  And yes, Saab has never been a premium brand. But I need more time to explain myself. Saab just happened to produce the 900NG (executive car) and the 9000 (large “sedan”) which were large cars, with a lot of gadgets and security stuff; those two models were premium, but it doesn’t mean that Saab is or was a premium brand at any time. You’re right about it. My fault.

  I don’t trust what GM management tell us… About a year ago Lutz didn’t even know what a Saab was and now he’s its most enthusiastic promoter. Lutz! for gods sake!, he should be with Abe Simpson sharing the room! Anybody read “Taken for a ride”?
  He is too old to be working!
  I feel shame when some yank (like Lutz) talk about Saab at a car presentation… they don’t know what Saab means!

• 14 Kroum // Apr 12, 2008 at 2:21 am

  Frank, you only have Chevrolet in Europe because Daewoo went under, GM bought it and rebadged the Korean cars as Chevys. Everyone knows they are just driving a rebadged Daewoo.

  Also, I strongly disagree with your misinformed belief that Opel will become a premium brand. If you look at the U.S. market, you can get a fully-optioned Maxima for a price very close to an Inifinti, and it is basically the same car, but that doesn’t diminish Infinit’s premium status. Badge-perception is a a powerful thing. Similar overlaps exist bewteen VWs and Audis, Hondas and Acuras, etc. It’s an oft-discussed topic on many automotive blogs.

  Lastly, what makes a brand premium is a complex combination of factors, not just the opinions of select automotive journalists. Exclusivity, craftsmanship, quality, marque history, perception, etc. I’m not too sure where exactly is Saab behind in most of these areas? The “subpar plastics” argument is not gonna cut it, and as somebody who recently test-drove high end BMWs and Audis I can tell you their interiors were not better than Saab’s.

  Saabs are put together as well as the German cars (if you’ve ever looked past the “subpat plastics” and stopped repeating what you’ve read in blogs). They are exclusive, even more so than Audi and BMW.

  They are safer - hey, could they be safer because they are of higher quality? See what my point is - all this is very subjective. To you quality could mean plastics used on the dash, to me in could mean how rust-proof the body is.

• 15 Frank A // Apr 12, 2008 at 4:06 am

  Kroum, I own a 2005 P-3. I have driven BMWs and Audis. I agree the interior plastics of some 3 series cars are on par with my 9-3. Audi interiors except for the A3 are way ahead of SAABs. Check the resale value of any BMW or Audi versus SAAB, it is not even close. Perception is everything in the premium car business, SAABs are not perceived as premium or luxury cars. It does not matter what I believe, I see GM’s strategy pretty clearly. Opel will be a step up from Chevrolet in Europe and Caddy will be the top brand for GM. In this strategy SAAB does not give GM anything that Opel can’t. I don’t agree with this strategy but it is what it is. SAAB does not generate profits, they do not get people out of Audis, BMWs, Merc, Lexus. Can they? Sure with the right amount of money and time. I just don’t see GM going the distance. GM’s main priority is to get the North American business profitable. They make money in every other region except the USA. this is not sustainable, I don’t think GM sees SAAB as part of the solution.

• 16 sebbe // Apr 12, 2008 at 5:58 am

  “Opel will be a step up from Chevrolet in Europe and Caddy will be the top brand for GM. In this strategy SAAB does not give GM anything that Opel can’t.”

  Then GM can kiss the premium market good-bye because that’s going to happen in Europe. Caddy is not going to be a seller in Europe because it’s an American product for Americans; it’s too obvious. If you don’t realize that then you (and GM) are in big trouble.

  Opel can compete with Renault or Fiat, but not even close to Peugeot. Let aside BMW/Mercedes/Audi. It can’t even compete with VW in quality perception!

  Saab should be GM premium brand in Europe based on safety, quality, technology, design, history. As for safety and history we should agree Saab already have them. Technology, well, GM has been cutting Saab budget, how are you going to develop something in that scenario?
  Design?, they should redesign cars (on the outside and technology) more often, not wait until sales drop like a stone in a lake like in the case of current 9-5, or the case of 900C which looked so 1970’s and were still sold in 1992 until the 900NG came along.

  Saab problem is marketing, which doesn’t give them sells, which doesn’t give them profitability, which would make GM realize “hey!, this is a brand worth taking the risk to take into the next level”.

• 17 Frank A // Apr 12, 2008 at 6:07 am

  sebbe, i am not defending Gm’s startegy. I don’t work for Gm and I certainly didn’t develop this strategy. I am calling it as I see it. Right now SAAB does not give GM anything in Europe. Could they? Sure, but I don’t see the commitment. GM Europe is currently making money without SAABs help (financial, sales), in the end that is what matters to GM. They are a for profit company and their shareholders want better results. If that means cutting loose a money loser they will.