The Viggen brand - a hard lesson learned by Saab
Did you know that back in 1999, Saab intended for the Viggen name to be a sub-brand within the Saab 9-3 portfolio?
If things had worked out the way they planned, we’d all be drooling over the new 9-3 Viggen with XWD instead of the model now called the Turbo-X. It’s likely there’d be no partnership with Hirsch, too.
Here’s another snippet from the 9-3 Viggen release material I discovered over the weekend:
Potential buyers are likely to be affluent and seeking a high degree of individuality and exclusivity from their choice of car. They are also likely to have been attracted in the past to some of the performance-enhanced Saab cars offered by specialist tuning companies, although ultimately dissuaded from this choice due to fears over possible invalidation of the Saab warranty. With the new Saab 9-3 Viggen, this worry has been removed.
Other potential buyers are expected to come from drivers of volume manufacturer derived coupes or from those currently in mainstream performance models who are seeking the exclusivity of a sporting premium car at an accessible price.
Above all, though, potential buyers are seeking a stylish way of expressing their individuality in a car that’s also rewarding to drive. By its very nature, the Saab 9-3 Viggen is unlikely to appeal to everybody. On the other hand, this increases the car’s niche positioning above the rest of the Saab 9-3 model line-up and its own sub-brand: Viggen.
When the Viggen was released, the press took it apart for its torque steer and the rather poor chassis setup relative to the engine. Owners found out later that it was almost mandatory to visit Abbott Motorsport and get a rescue kit in order to get the car into the state it should have been when it left the factory.
Saab dropped the Viggen in 2002 and whilst I don’t know for sure, I assume it’s sometime around then that they forged a factory tuning partnership with Hirsch. The Viggen name and badge was consigned to history as a marketing exercise gone right with a car that went slightly wrong in its factory trim. They had a great name, a great emblem, the right look and a magnificent interior package. It was let down by the drive.
Is it dead?
I know I’m biased, but I still feel like there’s an appreciation for it in the Saab community at large. The name itself, along with the badge, is pretty darn cool. It was an authentic link with Saab’s aviation history and in marketing terms, it stood well and truly in the right place. I think as soon as everyone heard the name ‘Viggen’ they knew that this was a performance car.
Perhaps with the right car, one that does it justice, the Viggen name could rise again. Perhaps Hirsch could licence the name and produce Viggens of their own, although that might clash with the work they’ve done to establish the Hirsch brand itself.
It just seems like such a shame that Saab should lose this iconic symbol forever.
Indeed, a hard lesson learned.
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I agree Swade…it would be great to see the Viggen name on a new high-performance Saab. The Vig also got quite a bit of GREAT press in its day. Unfortunately some of the more dim-witted reviews appeared in the most well-known publications, and were written by “experts” with a prejudice against front-drive cars in general. Driving a Saab (at least until recently) requires a different approach, and anyone used to punching the gas and letting the tail end wag would certainly be in for a surprise the first time out with a Viggen. Anyway, I think the Vig is a brilliant car despite any such “flaws”. Long live the Viggen!!
I recall reading (probably on this very site) that, at least in part, Saab didn’t continue with the Viggen because the name flopped with European consumers. Any ideas as to why this may have been the case?
Personally, I’d love to see the Viggen name revived for high-performance Saabs. (And perhaps a luxury spec of Griffin/Gripen while they’re at it.)
Swade: I aree it would be great to see the Viggen name surface again. The car was a dream for me when I first heard about it and has remained that way despite it’s flaws. Most of which could be fixed or at least impoved on.
But I think the following paragraph neatly sums up why there can’t be another Viggen, at least until there is a range of cars and models deserved of the name:
“Other potential buyers are expected to come from drivers of volume manufacturer derived coupes or from those currently in mainstream performance models who are seeking the exclusivity of a sporting premium car at an accessible price.”
Currently there’s nothing that quite fits that bill.
I agree with Markac…. The Turbo-X is a great car, but it’s not a what I’d label a Viggen… Maybe the next gen 9-5 will have an engine set-up, with XWD, to fully deserve the name Viggen.
Interesting topic you have started, Swade.
This once again touches on the topic of Saab having an in-house performance series offering, much like BMW’s M, Audi’s RS, and Mercedes’ AMG. And Viggen would have been a most appropriate name as it touches on Saab’s much advertised aircraft heritage.
Yonah, I am curious why would have Viggen the name flopped with European consumers. Perhaps it is the confusion on how it is pronounced? Gripen would definitely be a more marketable nameplate.
i’m guessing the viggen flopped in europe because it’s a hatch.
’tis a shame, because (after driving a sedan) i can’t understand why anyone would want to drive anything other than a hatch (or larger class vehicle).
*stepping off soap box*
I still have plenty of drool for the Turbo-X.
I think the Viggen name needs to remain in history, with Gripen taking its place. This would be the very limited, top-tiered performance model. Aero as the luxo-performance model that has top equipment but with sporty appeal and great drivetrain. Arc or SE as the luxury model, could have two engine options but similar performance nonethtless, and possible the same engine and performance as the Aeroo, but in a luxury package. Also Linear or S for th ebase, well-equipped but leaving room for higher models and also a smaller engine and such. Not so bling-bling as the Arc/SE
Also the 9-3 should have the Gripen, while the 9-5 should maybe get Gripen, but more suitably Griffin…a similarly spirited big brother to the Gripen. The more nimble, smaller car(s) can get the airplane/fighter jet names, while the bigger cars get the Griffin trim.
Hirsch is a joke as far as factory tuners go, look at the things that Brabus, Heico, Dinan, Alpina, etc are doing and offering and Hirsch’s selection starts to seem rather pathetic.
If Brabus can sell a V12 C-class, then Hirsch needs to start doing things like dropping a turbo 3.6 into the 9-3 before they will be considered anything more than a basic chip tuner like BSR but with factory support. Hell, even a built 9-5 with cams, forged pistons, a GT28 and a quaife would be nice.
I like the Viggen name and I think Saab should pull their heads out of their rears and realize how much better the logo looks and sounds than “Turbo-X”. “Turbo X” sounds downright Japanese and does nothing to convey the things Saab should stand for.
What I’d like to see is Saab extending the fighter names to the rest of the lineup. How about the 9-3 Viggen, 9-5 Dracken, and 9-1 Gripen, now THAT would be a sweet naming setup for a performance lineup.
But Hirsch is extremely overrated imho, even compared to people like Abbott or Maptun.
Oooooh, Alex, way too extreme there. Having spent some time in a fully modded Hirsch 9-5 I can tell you they are no joke. It’s one seriously aggressive car.
Those companies you mention are different in that they’re aftermarket tuners that specialise in a particular brand. As far as I know, you buy the car from Brabus, or take your own to Brabus. Isn’t AMG the official tuning arm for MB?
The only thing that’s a joke about Hirsch is that it’s not available everywhere.
Alex,
Couldn’t disagree more, i too have been in the said 9-5 Hirsch that swade mentioned and it really is a thing of beauty. The owner that own’s it has a stable of tuned cars from Abbott and Nordic, performance wise the Hirsch leaves said tuners in the dust in both looks and out right speed, and those Hirsch 19’s are pure sex!!
a.
Jeff’s full collection, including the Hirsch, is viewable here. - SW
I think any car company needs to be ‘careful’ with those brand names that have a historical significance to that particular product.
Look what happened to Pontiac when it attempted to revive the GTO after its rather long hiatus. A similar thing happened to the Taurus SHO after Ford ‘lost’ its way in the late 1990’s and got rid of the character that made the earlier SHO so popular among that group of early adopters of the vehicle.
In contrast – Chevrolet in America has done a good job keeping the Z06 moniker associated with a high performance version of the Corvette. Buyers know what they are getting.
If Saab attached the Viggen name to current 9-3 or 9-5 it may disappoint buyers that love the original (or they may love the new model), but it might confuse new buyers to the Saab family (like me). Right now I look at an Aero model and know that means upgraded suspension, engine and other standard options that make that model unique and the cost seems to be in line with the options. Add another option (Viggen) to the lineup and that might just look like Saab trying to get a few extra bucks out of the customer if the package does not have enough significance to the buyer.
I think the Turbo X is a unique package, but I would have trouble paying premium for one when I know deep down the hardware will be available in lesser 9-3’s in a few years and that hardware might even be better than it is today. Time will tell if the Turbo X holds its value and becomes a sought after Saab model given the 9-3 is still in production and will be for a few more years in its current form.
I still marvel at the premium that old Buick Grand Nationals (and rare GNX’s) fetch 20 years after the weathered RWD Regal model was (finally) put to rest. An interesting marketing exercise at the time and thankfully Buick has never revived that name keeping the original model a significant piece of automotive history.
I am not saying that Saab should not bring back the Viggen – I am just saying one needs to be careful with its heritage.
AMG isn’t an official tuner, it’s a factory tuner like BMW’s M-sport, Audi’s S cars (or what Saab wanted to have with the Viggen line before GM killed that dream).
I have no doubt that Hirsch does a good job with their cars, but it’s more of a “what they are versus what they could be” issue to me. The Hirsch 9-5’s are nice but they’re still only ~300hp cars, a setup that the 9-5 Aero should arguably come with from the factory, and they certainly aren’t even as fast or agile as an E39 M5, a car that’s now almost ten years old. I just can’t help but think that they could do better.
What I’d like to see them do is sell a balls-to-the-wall tuned 9-5 that has a bit more than just a chipped engine and a suspension. When you buy an Alpina, Brabus, Dinan or Kleemann car they all come with mechanical bits (not just an exhaust) that aren’t part of the OEM setup of the car.
I’d like to see Hirsch do a car in the vein of the crazy performance versions of the big German companies. Take the new 9-3 xwd Aero, and add a Quaife up front, a GT30, forged internals and a frontmount, tuned to ~450 horsepower. Sell it for ~55k USD and unleash it on the auto show circuit and it would bring back some much needed publicity to the brand.
Similarly, a 9-5 with a GT28, a frontmount and a Quaife with the Maptun 6-speed conversion to the tune of ~350-400 hp would be another great gonzo concept car.
I just look at the cars that Heico and IPD have built for Volvo, and what Brabus, Dinan, Kleemann, Alpina, RUF, APR, etc have done for the Germans, and then I look at Hirsch’s rather tame (in comparison) offerings and I can’t help but think that Saab’s “official” tuner could be working a bit harder. Saab already has enough of a problem with their image of being an ostensible BMW/Audi competitor that in reality comes nowhere close, the last thing we need is Hirsch’s “it’s fast for a Saab but it’s where factory BMW’s and Audi’s were 6 years ago” philosophy reinforcing that stereotype.
I’ll have a Hirsch any day as they are classy and seriously tasteful in what they do. No other aftermarket tuner or accessories refinement has the panache of Hirsch for any Saab. They clearly are in the same league as AMG, M etc etc. If anyone wants some other kits then consider buying a cheap Jap car and hot it up in a Jobo flavor. Hirsch is obviously not for you then as they are too classy.
My first experience with the Viggen was when my dad was shopping for his 2004 9-3 SS. I was about 13 at the time. I forget why the dealer, who was a personal friend of ours, mentioned it, but anyway, I saw the car. I was obsessed with the badge. It was - and is - SO AWESOME. The car was a grey coupe, and it was really good looking.
Anyway, search Rogan on this site and you’ll see what I drive now. I almost ended up with a Viggen - I had two snatched out from under me before I ended up with my Vector.
@ Joe Lobo, I could care less about what they look like, if anything the Hirsch kits, the 19″ wheels and those goofy exhaust kits are TOO flashy for my liking.
There’s classy tuning, and there’s half-assed tuning and I think that Hirsch falls squarely on the latter side of things. Back when AMG was a separate entity they built their engines by hand from components that weren’t found in any production Mercedes, something that they still do to this day. Brabus takes the biggest possible MB engine and drops it into the smallest possible car, like on their V12 C-class and E-class cars. Kleemann designs and builds their own twin-screw blowers from scratch and attaches them to engines with custom internals.
Hirsch throws on an exhaust, a suspension upgrade, a bodykit and an ECU reflash. The only thing that Hirsch has going for it compared to SQR, Maptun, Abbott, Nordic, etc is factory support, which means jack diddly in the States anyways.
So I want to see Hirsch get real adventuresome and prove that they can do more than simply reflashing an ECU. I want to see them drop a 3.6 highfeature V6 with a big GT turbo into an xwd 9-3 and make a car that beats the M3 and RS4 in the horsepower race. I want them to sell custom cams and GT28 kits for the H-engine the way Abbott does. I want to see them go above and beyond their current tame offerings and build something truly awe-inspiring.
Just look at this old video comparison:
http://www.trollhattansaab.net/archives/2007/11/saab-9-5-hirsch-vs-volvo-v70r.html
Now remember that the Volvo came straight from the factory and was available back in 2004 and it still beat the Hirsch. The Hirsch car isn’t anything special, it’s just what the 9-5 Aero should have been in the first place. This just drives home my opinion that Hirsch doesn’t make tuner cars, they just make the Aeros into the cars Saab should have built in the first place.
Unfortunately, that just isn’t enough and they’re going to need to go above and beyond that if they want to be considered a true player in the world of aftermarket tuners.
Alex, I tend to think you’re missing the point somewhat when it comes to Hirsch, and quite possibly with Saab as well.
Firstly, the reason Saab Oz hasn’t formed a deal with Hirsch is because there wouldn’t be enough business here to justify it (in their eyes, at least). The main reason being that back when it was on the table, a fully modified Hirsch 9-5 would have pushed a price of over $100,000 here. No-one was ever going to pay $100,000 for a Saab here in Oz.
The tuners you’re talking about are all top dollar outfits for the wealthy and Saab doesn’t play in that market.
I don’t know the particulars of the contract, but as far as I can tell, Hirsch aren’t contracted to go dropping new engines into cars - esp engines that aren’t offered anywhere else in Saab’s lineup. Their role is to tune a Saab engine from the factory to provide an exhilarating and balanced drive - and they do a freaking good job of it.
Have you ever driven one? If you ever come out to Oz, come to Melbourne and I’ll tee up a visit with Jeff B. Go for a drive with him in his 9-5 and then with a straight face, tell him his car is half-assed.
I agree that in many instances, we’re talking about Hirsch tuned cars that should be that way out of the factory. But they’re not. And given Hirsch’s brief I think they do a very, very good job.
And the whole thing, factory backed or not, means jack in the States as they haven’t brought it to market there. You can’t get Hirsch tuning or products even if you want to. That’s a blight on SaabUSA that I’ve tackled many times.
About missing the point on Saab - I’ve never known Saab to be in for horsepower wars as you seem to advocate with your reference to the RS4 and M3.
The problem with Viggen was how to pronounce it in Germany. Germans read the name Viggen as “Ficken” and who want to drive a car named ****?
This is an innocent use of the word, so the comment stays, albeit with the offending word removed. Be careful out there!
They never competed in the horsepower wars, but they have competed in the acceleration wars ever since the first 95 started winning rallys. As recently as ~2000 ish the 9-5 Aero was a valid competitor to the E39 540i in terms of sheer acceleration, and the 9-3 2.0 HOT Aero could more than tackle the fastest 3-series of it’s day, the 328i.
But while BMW bumped the next-generation V8 up to 350 horsepower, GM axed the next-generation awd 9-5 that could have been a valid competitor to the E60. Then while BMW kept bumping up the output of their straight-sixes, GM made the crazy decision of debuting the 9-3SS Aero with only 210 horsepower. This wouldn’t be so bad if GM hadn’t sold the exact same engine in the Astra VXR, but with 240 horsepower!
A 240 horsepower 9-3SS Aero could have hit the ground running and brought the car the publicity that it needed so badly during 2003-2005, not to mention that it would have demolished the 330i from a roll.
Now BMW has released the 300 hp, 300 ft-lb 335i which can bang out 0-60 in 4.9 seconds. The 9-3 Aero xwd, with 280 hp and a 0-60 time of 5.4 comes closer to that goal, but how hard would it have been to bump it up to 300hp and 4.9 seconds, and I’m sure the Hirsch version will crank out those numbers.
My issue with Hirsch is that unlike the big German tuners, they don’t really offer anything that couldn’t reasonably be offered on a production Saab. The Hirsch suspension shouldn’t be an overpriced aftermarket option, it should be standard equipment on the Aeros. You shouldn’t have to pay out the arse for a 300hp ecu reflash and leather dash for your 9-3 Aero, it should have had those things when it rolled off the assembly line.
In short, Hirsch in my mind isn’t a tuner, they simply do the job that Saab should be doing in the first place. If GM can stomach warranty work on a 300hp Hirsch 9-5 or 9-3, then why don’t they simply offer the 9-5 Aero and 9-3 Aero with that kind of power and Hirsch suspensions in the first place? I’m sure that it wouldn’t add more than $2k USD to the prices of both cars.
I’ll still stand by my half-assed comment on the Hirsch 9-5, only because the Volvo S60R could beat it from the factory. That’s not an attack on Hirsch, it’s an attack on GM for not keeping the Aero up to date.
Now compare the 280 and 300hp Hirsch cars to Volvo’s factory-approved tuner, Heico. The stage 1 upgrade for the S60R boosts you from 300 hp/300 ft-lbs to 342hp/328 ft-lbs. The S60R already was as fast if not faster than the Turbo X from the factory (and back in 2004 no less), 342 hp will drop it’s 0-60 times into the 4’s and it’s 1/4 times into the low 13’s or even the high 12’s.
I have no doubt that the Hirsch 9-5 is a nice drive, but I also have no doubt that it would get demolished on all fronts by a similarly-priced Heico S60R. That’s a Volvo people, a friggin VOLVO.
I think we can do better, that’s all.
Alex, I understand where you are coming from…. It would make sense if they’d do it.. Much like the old WS6 trans-ams and Camaro SS’s that went to Street legal Performance for upgrades that weren’t in the original parts-bin for the lesser GM products
No way the S60R is faster than the Turbo-X.
the thing about Hirsch tuning is it is very niceley engineered, way ahead of abbott in my opinion and it is very understated. the truth of it is that it is on brand with saab, it reflects the saab ideals and philosophies that attract customers in the first place.
i have a 160mph four door saloon with lightning acceleration that doesnt attract attention from the local constabulary or local hoods
@Andrew, the S60R has 20 horsepower on the Turbo X, makes just as much torque, and if the 3800 lb curb weight is true, the S60R weighs around 100-200 lbs less. All of that points to the Turbo X not even besting a four year old Volvo.
At least the Turbo X cost less, oh wait
At least the Turbo X has a nicer interior than the 4-year old Volvo, oh… wait again…
Get my point? The S60R, in 2004, cost $38k USD, had a stunning interior, 4-pot brembos on all four corners, and an adjustable suspension system by ohlins. GM really dropped the ball with the Turbo X, maybe instead of “born from Jets” it should read “we can’t even build the cars that Volvo built four years ago”. It certainly feels that way.
@ gunner, and your neighbor with the Kleemann E-class attracts just as little attention from the fuzz or the hoods, except his car will break 200.
The problem that Saab has across the boards is that appealing to Saab owners, or at least trying to just isn’t enough as current sales #’s have proven. Saab desperately needs to attract new blood to the brand, and to do so will require production cars that wow the entire automotive community, not just some die-hard Saab fans on the internet. The Turbo X, Hirsch cars, etc succeed at the latter, but utterly fail at the former and Saab really can’t afford that kind of failure right now.
Volvo S60R (2004-2005):
Base price : $36,875
Engine : 5 cylinder, turbocharged, DOHC, front engine AWD
Displacement : 2,521 cc
Valve : 20 valves, 4 valves per cylinder
Transmission : 6-spd manual, 5-spd automanual
Fuel economy : city - 18 mpg
highway - 25 mpg
Suspension : F - Independent MacPherson strut
R - Independent multilink
Brakes : F - Vented discs
R - Vented discs
Horsepower : 300 hp @ 5500 rpm(manual), 300 hp @ 6000 rpm(auto)
Torque : 295 lb-ft @ 1950 rpm(manual), 258 lb-ft @ 1950 rpm(auto)
Redline : 6800 rpm
Top speed : 148 mph(electronically limited)
0-60 mph : 5.4 sec.(manual), 6.0 sec.(auto)
0-¼ mile : 14.0 sec @ 101.0 mph
60-0 braking distance : 118 ft
200 ft skidpad : 0.88 g
Curb Weight : 3571 lbs(sedan), 3757 lbs(wagon)
Overall length : 180.2 in.
Wheelbase : 106.9 in.
Overall Width : 71.0 in.
Height : 56.2 in.(sedan), 57.7 in.(wagon)
Competitors :
Infiniti G35
Volkswagen Passat W8
Audi S4 Quattro
Source: http://www.modernracer.com/volvos60r.html
Somewhat annoying if you are a Turbo X fan…..
Not annoying at all, Nick. The Ovlov sounds and reads like it must have been a great car. But I’ve driven XWD and I’d be very happy with a Turbo X purchase if I were in the position to pull the trigger.
Alex, you’re meeting reasoned discussion with belligerant stubbornness and sarcasm. I’ve got posts to write for the front page, so I’ll end my participation here. Suffice to say, we’ll have to agree to disagree.
Yeah I understand, but I come from the Volvo performance community and I have a bunch of friends who drive S60R’s. I’d definitely suggest that you check them out Swade, they really are excellent cars. I just find it surprising that on a Saab site, where people frequently riff on Volvos for being slow and boring, that people get bent out of shape when I point out that Volvo tuners are making much more interesting stuff than the “official” Saab tuner.
I also get miffed by GM’s total mismanagement of Saab’s product lineup. Saab is supposed to be the sporty Swedish brand, how come it is then that since full GM ownership, Volvo’s fast cars have handily beat Saab’s fast cars.
Oh let me also add that I’m surprised at how quick and willing the Saab community is to accept GM’s blunders when it comes to managing the brand. When Volvo decided to kill the R lineup, the first thing the R owners did was band together and pressure their dealerships to pressure Volvo to bring back the R’s. As a result we now have R-design and there’s murmuring that the R’s will come back a year or two after the next-gen S60.
I just wish I saw more of us doing that sort of thing with regards to Saab’s cheap interiors, the underpowered Turbo X, or their decision to not bring the Viggen name back.
OK, seem like a second ‘last’ post is needed
Alex, I think there’s a healthy respect for Volvo amongst the people at this website. The jibes are generally tongue in cheek, but the respect remains and is probably tinged with a touch of envy at how Ford has let Volvo have it’s head a little where Saab took it’s liberties too far around 5 years ago and is now on a very short leash.
On the whole, I think Saab still are the sportier Swedish brand when you look at their garden variety vehicle lineup, the ones that most people buy. Just my humble opinion. Volvo’s R division may well have held an edge at the sharp end, which is to Saab’s and GM’s detriment.
As for accepting GM’s blunders, well you’re not Robinson Crusoe in that regard. I’ve been grating on GM for ages about lack of investment, about Cadillac in Europe, about taking Hirsch worldwide and thereby giving them a base for building bigger and better things - you name it and I’ve covered it here.
GM will do what GM will do. Saab made life hard for themselves by mismanaging the development of the 9-3SS. It wasn’t GM’s fault (except for lack of oversight, perhaps). Saab now have to build some strength again and do it within the model that GM has in place for it. Our place is to like it or lump it.
It sounds like your Volvo R-owners have an ear at Volvo that we could only wish for at Saab. Maybe when we get a model base that’s stable and covers all the bases, like Volvo have, they’ll be able to do that too. One can hope.