The strange, strange case of the 9-X BioHybrid
I haven’t written a whole lot of opinion about the Saab 9-X BioHybrid this week.
The main reason for that is because I’m still spinning between my joy at the design and what it could mean, and the executive statements with regard to Saab and what they could mean. Then there’s the state of the car and the rapturous way in which it’s been received.
This has been one crazy week, people, and I’ve got a few things I need to sort out in my head.
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The first thing is the question as to whether or not Saab and GM can possibly continue the non-committed language that they’ve rolled out this week in relation to the car.
Read this press release on Saab’s future and you’ll see they’re quite committed to the 9-4x but it reads is if they’re hopeful of getting a compact car. Bob Lutz was quite clear in his language that the 9-X BioHybrid was a representation of what a compact Saab could look like, and if it comes it’ll be called the 9-1 etc etc.
Can they really continue to talk like this now that the concept has been praised worldwide and won the Best Concept award at the show? An award to go in the trophy cabinet along side the same award won by the groundbreaking Aero-X just 2 years ago? For a vehicle that was just a concept car, the world surely seems to be screaming “build it!”
And then there’s the whole question of why they’d show this concept in the first place if they have little intention of actually building a compact car based on it.
Everyone knows that Saab need a wider range of products. The press are lampooning them for it, the customers and especially the dealers are screaming out for it. Why on earth would you tease everyone by showing it, scooping an award with it, and then not build it?
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Perhaps the most amusing part of the whole week is the Best Concept award itself. I think it’s thoroughly deserved as I absolutely love the design. I think a production car based on that concept could be my first ever brand new Saab.
But part of me is wondering if Anthony Lo and the team at GME Advanced Design are feeling quite fortunate right now. They must be smiling from ear to ear.
The main reason for this is that I can’t believe the concept car we saw a few days ago is actually at a standard of completion that Anthony Lo would like prior to showing it. The design world is pretty small, especially in Europe. Everyone knows who’s working where. Everyone went to design college with someone working somewhere. Most importantly, everyone watches what everyone else is doing.
The first time I saw a close-up photo of the interior of the 9-X Biohybrid I thought “wow, that’s not done yet”.
Having seen the Aero-X and sat in it, as well as the 9-4x concept, and having spoken to people about these vehicles, I think I’ve gained a basic understanding with regard to just how close to the bone these guys have to work in order to get a concept car finished prior to a show. In the 9-4x’s case they were working until only a day or so before the car went on show. In this case, I wouldn’t be surprised if I heard they were finishing things off on the day of the unveiling itself.
For example, the wheels had been put on the wrong side of the car - not something you’d do if you had adequate time. Secondly, why is it we’ve not seen a photo of the tailgate opened up to show the rear cargo space and it’s friction system on the rear load floor? My guess is because it’s not finished yet. And then there’s the aforementioned interior…
I don’t mean for any of this to take away from what is a great concept car. I absolutely love it. But weren’t we all surprised when we heard that we’d be seeing this car in concept form so early?
I was in Detroit at the time, back in January, and it was a complete shock to me. Having disproved the London-in-July rumours, I wasn’t expecting this car until later in the year. I suspect that sometime late last year GM Europe pushed the deadline, which didn’t allow for the car to be as “finished” as the designers would have liked prior to showing.
Open wiiiiiiiiiiide!
Remember, the design world is a small one. These guys at GME Advanced Design are amongst the best of the best. In a perfect world, they don’t want their peers seeing an unfinished project.
In light of all this, then, the fact that this car was STILL so well done that it won the Best Concept award is as amusing as it is a credit to the team that worked on it. Congratulations guys, on a fantastic bit of work under what must have been somewhat stressful conditions.
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I think the 9-X BioHybrid is one heck of a great concept. The more I look at it, the more I love it. I actually happen to think Bob Lutz might be right when he mentions it as amongst the Saabiest cars of the last few decades. I think the potential for it is that high.
I just hope the executives can get over the small-car fears they seem to be harbouring and make the right decision.
Build it and we will come.
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How about this prospect Swade?:
Firstly, is the 9-X that compact?? Given the suggestion that the 9-3 may be built off the Delta platform is it concievable that they might use the 9-X as the basis for the next gen 9-3 coupe?? There is a suggestion that a 9-1 compact may not sell in the US. This could kill the 50k+ planned sales volume. What if the upsized Delta platform is, as suggested, capable of delivering a same-sized 9-3 as now in Sedan and Sportcombi variants, a similar sized 2+2 CV and a 3 door as per 9-X???
All built in Trollhattan by Trolls.
I think that’s funny that they say there’s no market for small compact cars anymore here in america, when the mazda 3 is one of there better selling cars. It all depends on what price range Saab could bring this entry level car to market. If GM and Saab can make something that’s interesting to drive while also affordale, all the college kids and young proffessionals will flock to this car in a heartbeat!
I think they were pushed and pushed severely for this concept to be at Geneva. That’s another Americanization of Saab. America lives and dies on regimented, unrealistic deadlines pushing the envelope only when it makes you look as good as your German competition.
Whilst the 9-1 may not initially be Saab’s biggest selling model in the US, it will still sell and it’s market will grow. In the meantime it will become the biggest selling Saab elsewhere. I’m certain of that.
Definitely the 9-4x will outsell the 9-7x in the US, but it’s sales elsewhere will be relatively small. The 9-1 has to be 2 or 3 times as important as the 9-4x, but so little emphasis seems to have been placed on it. That’s very odd.
If recent suggestions come to fruition and a new 9-3 can be spun off an extended Delta II platform, this will improve the economies of scale for Saab. Many parts could be shared between the 9-1 and the new 9-3 and it would be sensible for Trollhattan to build them both.
The 9-1 needs to arrive no later than the next Astra and preferably slightly earlier. We need to see a real prototype 9-1 at the end of the year or early next year. The 9-X BioHybrid is a fine concept but you could say the same thing about the 9X and the 9-3X. Saab needs some real cars now. Not just ideas or maybe pipe dreams?
It may be the most “Saabish” Saab in awhile, but the reverse hockey stick still irks me. I mean it looks great here, but it’s not Saab-like at all
The reverse hockey stick was simply a design element that only became dogma once Saab told us subtlety what that design element meant.
At Geneva, it looked like a hockey stick parallel to the floor, but still a stick no doubt. I’d prefer a Lynx Yellow SportCombi though:)
ck1X - “If GM and Saab can make something that’s interesting to drive while also affordale, all the college kids and young proffessionals will flock to this car in a heartbeat!”
That is the problem at the moment with the strong EUR / weak USD together with the generally lower pricing on the US market it is difficult to right price a small European Car in the US market. See the new VW Sciricco - VW have stated that although the vehicle was engineered to also be suitable for the US market there are currently no plans to sell it there because they would be unable to sell it at a profit.
VW are looking at setting up a factory in NA to help offset currency fluctuations, GM excess capacity in NA, maybe the Delta II platform could be produced at several locations!
Saab should keep the 9-3 at Trollhattan and move the 9-1 to somewhere in North America to make the 9-1 cheaper here so it’s more appealing to younger buyers. Obviously, it’s too late for that, but I think it would have been a good idea.
Hmm.. A Saab 9-1 can not be in the same pricerange as for example the Mazda3. That would make critics say that Saab is yet another Saturn and we do not want that to happen. A 9-1 should be priced just bellow Audi or BMW.
With the awards both the Aero X and the 9-X BHC has gotten it would be realy strange and stupid if GM does not give Saab a go to produce the 9-1. Do it now.. not later.
And stop fibbling around with the next generation 9-3 General! The 9-5 Epsilon II has been tested so long now and a productioncar is around the corner. Do not delay the next 9-3 and spend money in looking to lengthen the Delta. Then we will not see that product untill 2012-14 or something and thats NOT the way to go.
that’s correct - in order to survive, the next 9-5 should arrive as a 2009 Model, then the first cars ordered would be hitting the street on August 09 - in September 09 the 9-4X should be realeased and would be on the streets in serious amounts throughout late wintertime 09/early 2010 - the 9-1 has then to hit the market. Summer/fall 2010 is a must. You always have to look at the competition - VW will bring its new compact car by the end of this year, forcing Opel to get the Astra on track later next year. So a prodution version 9-1, if they really commit to the Saab brand, should better be out late 2010 as I mentioned… If I do remember correctly, Karman was on the show with an all new rooftopsystem for convertibles - a mixture between hardtop and softtop, that’s only about 14kg in weight and does not even decrease the trunk… Opel was interested in this system… that could indicate that Saab, as they told us before with the next gen 9-3 ‘vert, will bring this system as well??? Did anyone else notice this ?
Audi’s A3 range in the US is somewhat limited and BMWs 1 series range, even more so. The 9-1 needs to be Volvo C30 priced and come in a range of 3 and 5 door models, both ranging up to Aero spec.
What platform is the next 9-3 scheduled to use?
A shortened Epsilon II perhaps? Does it matter much if they shorten one platform or lenghten another? I think the current 9-3 will have to carry the torch whilst Saab release a 9-4x, a new 9-5 and the 9-1. I’m guessing MY2012 for a replacement 9-3?
rayman146. You are correct sir but it´s not Karmann but Webasto. The accually are responsible for the tedh behing the C70.
http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080227/FREE/295049878
The next gen 9-3 Convertible is said to have a new type of top. Neither a softtop or a hardtop.. So maybe it is the Webastotype?
Markac.. The 9-1 and Astra will be based on the Delta platform.
God I´m spelling like a drunk person. Regarding Webasto.. They actually are responsible for the tech behing the C70.
Delta II platform actually, but what about the next 9-3? If the new 9-5 is to use the Epsilon II platform like the Opel Insignia where does that leave a the next 9-3? Shortened Epsilon II or strteched Delta II?
Has somebody reading this been to the show? If you snapped any shots of the 9-5 Turbo Edition please send the picks to Swade and let us see if there is any difference other than the 9-5 Performance. I know it´s just for Saab in Switzerland but it would be nice to see. Tom
Thanx Tompa - i just read it somewhere and saw a photo of it…
here’s the thing … according to our local guy, at the dealer event in Trollhattan last year they not only told them that the small concept would be built (pretty much as the concept that would be shown — minus some of the concept features, like the solar-roof, expect an interior more like the 9-4x), but they also discussed where it would slot in the line-up price wise.
The news that the next generation 9-3 isn’t even settled on a platform yet seems sketchy … could they be talking even further in the future — beyond the next generation? (Assuming they go to a more reasonable life-cycle with the next generation.)
I don’t think Saab needs to price the 9-1 in the same range as a Mazda 3 but you sure as hell can’t expect to sell the car at the same entry price as your current entry level 9-3. The car has to be priced between 23k and 27k no more than that. If that means Saab has to do more production in China, Mexico or Germany(opel) then so be it. They can’t just say, we can afford to charge the same amount as Audi or BMW. Saab is the under dog right now and they need to gain market share anyway they can..I’m routing that Saab can make a come back but srtategic pricing will play a large roll in that come back.
OK Swade, now you’ve brought it up twice. Those wheels aren’t on backward (if as pictured above). They should pull air from under the car, over the brakes, then OUT the wheel while traveling forward. Moving the air the other way would disturb the aerodynamics around the wheel well area AND create a higher pressure area underneath the car (creating lift) - we don’t want either of those things. The wheels pictured above appear to be pulling air out from under the vehicle - the right way.
As for the 9-1, Saab/GM don’t have a choice. Build it or die. If they don’t build the 9-1 and price it somewhere in the mid-to-low 20s Saab might as well pack up their toys and go home.
Suggesting that the US isn’t interested in compact cars is absolutely insane. Why did Honda just introduce the Fit? Because the Civic had gotten too big. Why did Chevrolet introduce the Aveo? Because the Cobalt was too expensive. Why did they introduce the Cobalt(cavalier)? Because the Impala/Malibu were too big.
Gas prices in the US are forcasted to hit $4/gallon this summer (note that this price is due to oil/gas companies jacking up their prices, not government taxes on the aformentioned commodities). If that happens and prices are maintained at that level, GM (and Ford) is going to be in a WORLD of hurt. Consumer truck sales are going to decrease substantially (have you seen any full-size pickups in Europe lately?) and the compact market is going to be scrounging up anything they can find to sell to consumers fighting poor gas mileage.
If there is no market for the 9-1 why is Volvo offering a compact? Why is Audi offering a compact? Why is Mercedes offering a compact? Why is BMW offering a compact?
If Saab does not offer the 9-1 in the US similar to the concept just shown, every executive at GM should be hanged by their toes and dragged through the streets of Detroit.
Actually, a slight technicality that doesn’t affect your argument, Ubermich: part of the reason for the “high” gasoline prices in the U.S. is that gasoline prices are following the high petroleum commodity price, which is in a large amount inflated due to the weak U.S. dollar. It takes more dollars to buy the same amount of oil when the dollar is weak. Note that the U.S. dollar is at parity with the Canadian dollar and is at record lows against the Euro.
Whether the high gasoline prices are temporary or not will determine in a large part future car buying habits. When the prices get high people clamor for hybrids and smaller cars for a short time and when the price goes down again they start buying-up the Yukons, Suburbans, and Tahoes that GM loves selling so much due to the large price margin. People are fickle. They say one thing and do another.
I just read in a magazine ad that Green Car magazine has named the Chevrolet Tahoe Hybrid their “Green Car of the Year” or something. The Tahoe Hybrid (a HUGE vehicle, BTW) supposedly gets 50% better fuel economy than the regular Tahoe and its fuel economy is on-par with a non-hybrid Toyota Camry. So people can still drive their unnecessarily huge vehicle while not sacrificing anything! Hooray!
The Tahoe Hybrid is actually pretty incredible for what it is… BUT, it IS still what it is. The Escalade will be offered as a Hybrid next year as well. Now, if your transmission goes after you’re out of warranty, that’s going to cost you $11,000… But you saved all that money on ga… oh wait, no you didn’t. The 9-3SC would’ve given you MUCH better fuel economy… At least you looked cool, right? Give me $11,000 (the price of the Tahoe tranny) and I’ll give you a circa 1990 Ford Bronco that gets the same mileage that hybrid Tahoe gets.
You are absolutely right on the economy issue. Unfortunately, a big reason our economy is hurting are the high fuel prices! It’s a spiral of doom. Our infrastructure is so dependent on fossil fuel (especially diesel), driving fuel prices up sends inflation through the roof. Add in the increase in the cost of raw materials and it should be no surprise why or how our economy is going the way it is.
Because everything here is so spread out, 90% of the things we consume are transported by truck (18-wheeler) over vast distances. Obviously something like a Saab will be transported by truck from the port to Dallas, TX. But there are millions of other things you might not think about. That corn you ate for dinner last night? That came from Indiana. It was moved by train (diesel-electric) to a packaging facility, then moved by truck from - say Nebraska to Arizona. That’s about 1200 miles, about the distance of the Chunnel to Turkey.
We are NOT an effecient people.
Ok, lets see what we know. The 9-5 will most likely hit the streets as MY2010, as Saab has sold the Södertälje engine factory to Scania to take over in 2009. So the current generation 9-5 engine production stops. This meant that the face lift lasted for 4 years (just as the previous two generations of the 9-5). The official line is that the Trollhättan factory will produce the same amount of cars for the forseable future, but with a reduced production area. Also, a few years ago, GM said that the factory was garantued until 2011, which made me conclude that the 9-3 would be in production until then (which fits nicely with the 4 years/facelift idea). Also, it has been said that the Astra will be produced in Trollhättan, which means retrofitting the factory. The Astra may just be a thin cover for producing the 9-1/9-2 instead (or maybe a 9-3 based on the Delta platform), just as the new 9-3 move to Rüsselheim in 2005 turned out to be the new 9-5 (4 years lead time). So, my guess is that a 9-X BioHybrid is probable at least 3 years out (as the started talking about the decision to produce the new Astra in Trollhättan last year, assuming a 4 year lead time in this case as well). My guess it’s not unlikely to be the equivalent to a design clinic car, and the final car may look quite different.
Mailr: I remember reading that the production of the 2.3-liter Saab engines had already ceased. They just built an extra supply of them before shutting down-production to supply the current 9-5 until its phase-out. With the way the 9-5 has been selling I wouldn’t be surprised if they made too many! I guess I can buy one in a crate and drop it into my wife’s ‘01 9-3 and make a pseudo-Viggen!
Ubermich, the thing with the wheels.
They were on the wrong way on the night of the unveiling, but apparently have been changed now for the actual show.
Compare the unveiling photo (top of this post) with the CGIs that have the wheels on the wrong way or any of the Aero-X photos.