My 0.02c on the Saab 9-X BioHybrid
Well, what a day it’s been already (and it’s only 9.45am).
Personally I’ve had a server crash and a resulting phone call with my hosting company who tried to tell me nothing was wrong. I’ve been confused about if and where images were going to appear and I’ve a darn good chat with various people about the Saab 9-X BioHybrid. I’ve been mad as hell (at Saab) and as happy as a clam (with Saab). I need sleep.
So what about the Saab 9-X BioHybrid concept?
The first thing you’ve got to note about this car is that it is, in every way, a concept vehicle. I suppose it had to be, given that the car is still 3 years away at best. But I think many of us, me included, were hoping for something a bit closer to a production vehicle, especially after the 9-4x appeared to be so close to production standard in many ways.
With the possible and remote exception of the exterior shape, this doesn’t seem to me to be even close to production. I’ll go so far as to say that from the few photos we’ve seen so far, bits of it don’t even look close to show grade, even for a concept car. The cgi of the interior looks very interesting, but the one close up photo that I’ve seen made it look like a high school project. It’s quite possible that this car should have been held over to Paris later this year so as to be appropriately finished prior to going on show.
Saab’s own press materials say that this is the sixth real concept car they’ve done in the 00’s (not counting pseudo concepts like the BioPower100 and BioPower Hybrid Convertible etc). By my count there’s only been five new production cars in that time, and that’s if you count the 9-3 as three different models (sedan, combi and convertible) AND include the 9-2x and 9-7x.
Saab needs to put something on the showroom floor. The dealers need it, the buyers need it and I even think the company itself needs it in order to believe that they’re capable of doing so once again. It’s time to either s#!t or get off the pot.
Now having said all that, the signs are very encouraging. Personally, I love it.
One of the most encouraging signs is that so many people don’t seem to like one part of it or another. Some don’t like the front. Others don’t like the back. I don’t like what I’ve seen of the interior.
Traditionally speaking, Saab design has always polarised some. I welcome the fact that there’s elements of this car that make some people uncomfortable. They’re not ugly in any way, but there’s some tension there. There’s some unexpected lines and developments. There’s some innovation. Whether or not things like the transforming aerodynamics in the rear make it to production is another thing, but for now, they’re there.
I haven’t seen it illuminated in a photo yet, but the signature lighting from the 2008 Saab 9-3 has been extended right across the hood line in this car. The wheels represent an evolution of the turbine wheel from the Aero-X and I like them a lot - I just wish they were on the right way. We’ll have to look for comparison photos once the show starts for real.
Most of all, I just love the exterior shape and the proportions they’ve put into this car. It recognises Saab’s past with the rear accessibility etc, but the shooting brake design just seems to sit really well with me.
This is the photo of the day for me, so far. Congratulations, Marcel!
That looks like something I could own. Given that the Aero-X won’t be produced and that I’m not into SUV’s at all, this is a very heartening development from Saab. The next step is to get it into production, which raises the big question of what we’ll finally see when that happens.
I don’t think we’ll see an interior like this one. I think we’ll possibly see an adaptation of the interior in the 9-4x concept along with inclusion of some of the connectivity features they’ve talked about with this car. But I’m not sure that the development of everything they’re talking about with this car will proceed at a pace quick enough to see it in the next few years.
I think we will see an exterior fairly close to this one. Just how close will be governed by the limitations of the Delta platform it will be produced on.
And the drivetrain? It’s an encouraging conceptual statement they’ve made. Those of you wondering about top speed etc needn’t worry. The performance for fuel economy trade off is more important in this configuration than the top speed. A 0-100 time around 8 seconds isn’t exactly a neck-snapper, but it isn’t shabby either - especially in a car that can sip E85 at such a teetotaller’s rate.
Remember too, that this is the conceptual engine, the one simulated in a lab to show off what the engineers can do. On release, this car will likely have a range of engines and I doubt they’re going to stop at 1.4 litres.
I think that there’s a lot to be gained from this concept car. I think the designers have done an extraordinarily good job under what was quite possibly an undesireable deadline.
All that remains is for Saab to actually build something saleable that captures the essence of what they’ve shown here - and to do it sooner rather than later.
——
Something I’m flagging here for follow-up.
The naming convention really has got me thinking. Previously, all uses of ‘X’ in either a concept or production car has denoted the presence of all-wheel drive. That’s not the case with this concept.
The re-use of the 9-X moniker is a deliberate decision, as is the use of it on a non-XWD vehicle. All this means there’s either something strange in the coffee over at the Saab Brand Center, or that Saab are introducing change to their naming conventions.
I’ll let you know when I know.
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Swade
Any chance we can see a poll to determine which part of the design your viewers like the least? I’m in love with the design and have very little to criticize but it would be interesting to read others opinions.
i hope the 9-4x interior gets into the production 9-1.
and SAAB doesnt chicken out on the XWD on this model.
otherwise, i really love this design. the front is BEAUTIFUL. it really ties the entire brand together. but the back is another story in itself. it just looks so… japanese ricer mitsubishi boy-racer-minivanish to me. no substance there.
but not to worry, that spoiler isnt making production anyway, so chances are, without it, a REAL hatch is still VERY possible, as is a redone rear end all together.
Production of something like this vehicle may come sooner than your 3 years. According to Swedens largest newspaper (DN) the peolpe at Saab said “within a year at best”. We’ll see…
It’s a very handsome car, I truly like all aspects of it, and the shooting brake in particular. It will definitely stand out on the road.
And I fail to see what is wrong with the extending spoiler? It’s a neat feature and why does everyone seem to think it is going to be that hard or expensive to produce?
But I have to agree with Swade - Saab nees more cars in showrooms, now!
Swade,
I mostly agree.
And I found this little beast fantastic, I love it.
About the name: ok, it’s not an XWD, but the electric motor drives the rear axle, so practically it can act like a four wheel drive car in certain situations.
I hope it will get in production within 2 years. It should be.
Even it don’t include those futuristic interior and functions, but please, keep the BioHybrid drivetrain!
I definitely start to save my money for it if the Hybrid will come up.
Thanks for your 2-bob Swade. Well considered.
The 9-X BioHybrid shows a lot of promise, but then again so did the 9X and the 9-3X and we ended up with nothing.
The front is good. The rear needs a lot of work before being production ready. The window line at the rear needs work too. And as I’ve mentioned earlier, it should have a clamshell bonnet. The 9-5 always had one. The 9-3 just got one. It’s a styling trademark and the 9-1 needs one!
I agree with most of what you say Swade, but
3 years is an long time to wait. Too long, I think? In the meantime, the updated 9-3, the new 9-5 and 9-4x will have to carry the weight.
The opposition will not stand still either.
Saab needs a 9-1 MY2010. GM needs to do a Toyota kind of thing and make that happen.
So the interior pictures were CGI and not real?
I too, was underwhelmed and thought the cockpit was too futuristic, too conceptual and not very practical.
..and very unprofessional looking. I do, however, really like some of the car’s concepts (connectivity, side mirrors, solar panel, etc).
Let’s get some of these features on the new 9-5 and get them off the production line and in dealer’s showrooms.
After studying all of the pictures here is my take. The overall shape and proportions are very good. I especially like the rear, very clean, but likely to change for production. I suspect this is the shape of the 9-1. Although the interior is clearly conceptual, I like the idea of incorporating the instrumentation into the drivers door. Very cool. I just hope not every car from SAAB will have identical front ends. I could see a larger version of this front end on the 9-3 and 9-5. Dislikes, only one really, it has a beam rear axle. Where is the IRS?
My main thought was that it was way too much concept and not enough show room. I love a lot of it, but also want to see something that will sell some cars. This is a segmant that SAAB should be in….small, sporty, safe, and fun. There are alot of cars like the minim your WRX, and Mazda3m that show the small car can sell and be a great vehicle. Build it SAAB and I hope the buyers will come. I see this as a potential winner as long as it’s built and priced right. I wish I could see it next to a WRX to really give it a size correlation.
The Toyota Prius (which you can actually go to a Toyota dealer and buy TODAY) doesn’t need aerodynamic gimmicks like the “extending roof” or the solar panel roof (wonder how much that would cost them).
I believe the Prius is actually larger than the 9-X BioHybrid and only gets 2 miles-per-U.S.-gallon worse fuel economy on the combined cycle than the 9-X BioHybrid, despite the fact it’s equipped with a 1.6-liter, rather than a 1.4-liter, ICE.
And what’s with the torsion bar rear suspension? No double-wishbones all around? Does this car at least have ReAxs?
I agree, this car is AT LEAST three years away from production for any other car company, and for Saab about five years because they move at the speed of molassas. I wonder what the state-of-the-art in engine technology will look like by then? Likely the Prius will have plug-in capability and use lithium (rather than the Nickel-Metal-Hydrides as it does now) batteries by then and get much better fuel economy than it does today.
Saab: where’s the plug-in capability for the 9-X BioHybrid? The 2006 9-3 BioPower hybrid convertible concept had plug-in capability. The Saturn hybrid concepts have plug-in capability…
Saab has way too much time on it’s hands. And why not, they have such a successful, full range of cars they can afford to splurge. Just look at how successful their flagship model, the 9-5 is doing. Why spend money or time updating this modern, highly competitive, well selling car that is adored by both the press and the public? Live it up Saab, you’ve got money to burn!
Oh, wait…let’s re-think that.
Sorry for my sarcastic and pessimistic point of view but, as I’ve mentioned before and as Swade has pointed out, too much time and money is being spent on things Saab could do, not on enough on things that will result in growth of the brand. I’ve been thinking about some competitors like BMW and Audi trying to think of how many concept cars they have shown verses how many production cars they have developed in the past few years. I can’t think of many concepts but can certainly count several new production cars.
I’m a bit confused and frustrated when I see Saab management spend money on these concepts yet continue to state that certifying diesel cars for the US would not be cost effective. What is so cost effective about these design studies?
Please Saab, spend your money and time on production cars that will give you a return on your investment and keep the brand alive. Dreaming is great but best done when you have a full range of cars that customers can buy and enjoy.
1985 Gripen: If Saab indeed take 5 years to produce this car, it will happen at a time when GM will have decided to pull the plug. So perhaps it won’t happen at all?
First, thanks Swade for the excelect information and great blog. Best information out there period (and I can understand your frustration when the site went down due to all the loadings today….).
The concept looks great, and what I like is that it raised reactions. To survive as a very small manufacturer/brand this is what is needed (without hireing Chris Bangle). Front is great. Back lock like an updated version of an autobianci from 15 years ago, but it is practical and now they just have to squeze 2 more doors in (maybe without a doorframe).
I love it. Build it and people will come.
I think Gripen has a point and the plug in hybrid is the wave of the future, at present that is. This car might be many years out, although you cant dismiss the bold frontal stance. My god, I can’t wait to see what the new 9-5 is going to look like this fall!
Before I forget: boo to Saab for not getting TS the 9-X BioHybrid info sooner. It’s not like Swade doesn’t deserve it for all his site does for you.
Yay to Swade for getting up really early to provide us with this info.
As for the rear-end controversy, I wish it would have had a tapering “fastback” style rear end like the Aero-X had. This squareback design does increase internal space when measured in cubic meters, but a lot of that space is vertical space, which is only really useful if you stack things inside the cargo area. Remember the 9-2X had a squareback design, making it a “small wagon” rather than a hatchback. I would have to say that the 9-X BioHybrid qualifies as a “small wagon” as well, not a “hatchback”.
I’m not so opposed to the rear straight-on view, but the rear profile is aweful, IMHO. Why couldn’t they have done the rear like this?
If you have to wait 3-5 years to buy one, go and get a 2009 VW Scirocco. You even get the
same wheels: http://fi.worldcarfans.com/3080302.001/kuva1002/vw-scirocco-2009-my
http://autonovita.blogosfere.it/images/2005-Audi-Shooting-Brake-Concept-RA-1280×960.jpg
I like the Saab version more, for sure.
Before I left for art school years ago, my dad offer this advice:
“Being artistic is a wonderful gift, but it doesn’t pay the bills.”
I learned pretty quick, and I went into web design. Glad I did too. See where I’m going with this….
Jeff: I think the VW looks better than the Audi and the Saab could look better still in it’s finished form. But when will that be?
jeff, that audi is definitely more production ready than the 9-x, so i believe its a little to early to compare.
mo: So you mean the Saab might end up uglier than the Audi or the VW? I surely hope it gets better looking!
A better look at the MY2009 Scirocco.
It even has a clamshell bonnet.
Ugly URLs, tsch tsch
Jesus, the interior is horrid. Yeah, Saab, I really want to be completely snowblinded whenever the sun comes out. Great plan.
I like everything about the exterior design, though. Everything. Which is really odd for me with new cars. Let’s just hope that the production version gets the 9-4x interior instead instead of that iDash reject.
I will say, though, the beam axle is a little weird. Are they worried people are going to haul cement in this thing? I’m going to assume that the production version will get IRS…it wouldn’t make sense otherwise.
Firstly to Swade, your devotion is undeniable and we thank you for updating us with all the new info even when we p*ssed you off trying to get on the site to see the car.
I seriously think Saab needs to show a real car and soon otherwise the company risks becoming nothing more than a GM design centre. People dont buy concepts, they buy real cars.
Regarding the 9-x, its a facelift of the original with an ugly butt. Having said that judging by track record - Saab will never build a car that looks anything like it as GM is not investing the money for the company to do so. Look at the 9-4X which is actually the most conventional looking CUV amongst its GM Europe/Saturn/Buick and Cadillac brethren.
Saab needs a new designer as I have said many a time in the past! Michael Mauer started the Saab revolution but left before he had enough influence.
markac: right now i feel the 9-x is much better looking that that, but when it is produced some of the features that make us like this car may not be there anymore, so right now its to early in my opinion to compare the cars.
mo: I think the Saab’s a good effort, but I felt the same about the 9X and the 9-3X which both looked arguably closer to production than this car. I first read about a 9-1 almost 2 years ago, yet Saab seem to have placed far more emphasis on the 9-4x than has been placed on this car. Not a good sign.
There are definitely some areas that need to be addressed to make a production 9-1 and I hope that they can happen in a quick timeframe, but judging by past efforts, this is unlikely.
Thanks for all your good work Swade. Sorry for that long ugly URL. Have an early night tonight!
Gripen,
Don’t compare it with Prius.
Prius is an odd shaped (at least, but to be more honest, it’s ugly), and very low performance car for commuting. Of course, it needs less fuel because it has 77 LE/115 Nm, which is less than half like the 9-X BioHybrid. Prius takes the 0-100 km/h within 10.9s, and you can guess that the 80-120 km/h is much worse.
Such a lazy and ugly car, it’s not fun to drive at all.
The only thing i don’t like is the steering wheel. I like the interior in terms of thinking but it does not look like they put a “huge” effort into it. The seats look amazing though.
I have to say, as i am the intended buyer (young) they have potential to find buyers for a vehicle with allot of these practical solutions. For those who think this is too much of a Japanese car, what do you think young people want and buy today?
Remember the Generals priorities in NA.
1)Chevrolet
2)Cadillac
3)Buick
4)Pontiac
5)GMC
6)Saturn
7)Hummer
8)Oldsmobile?
9)Saab
and elsewhere
1)Chevrolet
2)Cadillac
3)Opel/Vauxhall
4)Saab
not exactly encouraging, is it.
Im with CW…enough with the crazy, unfulfilled concepts, bring the best 95 ever, get diesels certified, hybrids too, and into the showrooms. Quit letting the competition & stablemates eat your/our lunch.
At the rate this is going, I’m not holding up high hopes for the 9-5 in Paris.
Thanks for the coverage & commentary - really appreciated. But honestly, another motor show, another Saab concept, another year without a new model. Seriously, its hard to care at all.
If the next new Saab we see is another concept & not a production model it will go beyond embarrassing to some other area requiiring the attention of a dedicated psychiatrist.
What GM doesn’t seem to realize enough, is that Saab drivers in Europe are not going to switch to one of their other brands if Saab were to dissapear. They will look for other akward or identifieable brands. I doubt Opel or Cadillac will be their first choice. So GM: either you deliver the goods, or you loose the Saab clientele alltogether.
At a conference for the german dealers last week, they said, this car is only a concept, and nearly nothing of the concept would appear when the production car came out!
And they said, the production car wouldn’t appear before late ‘11…
Just like the EV1, 9x, Aero X, 9-3X and now 9x BioHybrid.
The ones that (will) get into production were much more conservative - 9-3 SportHatch and 9-4X.
Only some interior tweaks mainly, to get them into production. Unfortunately this new concept might be a teaser only. But hopefully it is also really for testing reactions if they would come up with a car like that. And it seems that most of us, for example, like this concept a lot. But how many of us is willing to buy it, and pay some premium to have such a car?
I like the 9-x. Overall, surprising that it didn’t very much from the design formula of the original 9-x concept. Good, though.
Ivan has it right on two points:
1. Electric drive can/will be both ends of the vehicle in the GM/Volt platform which this should borrow from heavily. 4WD means a little something different with electric motors in the system.
2. The Prius isn’t a competitor of the 9-x. The Prius is a joke in my book. 10% or 15% better milage, slow and cramped. Uggh.
I agree that the lack of finished design and given the uncertainty of some of the technologies, I’m not sure that we can count on this vehicle being built as is or even reasonably close. More waiting.
One more note:
Frank A: This is essentially a full-scale model of what they THINK they MIGHT build in the future. The axle arrangement that you see here will almost certainly change significantly.