64 responses so far ↓

• 1 CWilson // Feb 10, 2008 at 8:21 pm

  While I don’t really have anything specific, I would like to see a revival similar to Saturn. In the past year or two, Saturn (here in the States) has made quite a comeback. Of all the American brands, Saturn has to be one of the most appealing right now.

  One thing that has concerned me is the mentality of selling based on price vs. quality. Yes, price sells but as Audi and BMW have proven, so does quality, or at least the perception of quality. The lack of quality interiors has really hurt Saab. If you have to cut costs, cut them where the customer won’t notice. The interior is a very important aspect of a purchase decision, especially when competing against the others in this class. Make the interior an inviting and pleasant environment. Instead of throwing money away in year-end rebates, put that money into quality materials.

  As you mention, the one thing Saab has going for them is enormous potential. Hopefully GM will eventually take advantage of it.

• 2 Brian Mills // Feb 10, 2008 at 8:39 pm

  SAAB will grow into a clone on models from OPEL-Vaxuall-Saturn and be regarded as the premium brand of the 4. SAAB is not on track at this time to be comapred with BMW Volvo and AUDI, service (particualrly at brand shared dealers with Saturn) and quality (particularly interiors) are not up to the german and other Swedish counterparts. I am considering Volvo fro my next vehicle – sorry, same price more features better interior that is NOT a clone.

• 3 lance // Feb 10, 2008 at 9:30 pm

  Brian,

  If you buy a smaller Volvo it is a clone- as the floor pan and bits are all shared with the current Ford Focus and Mazda 3 range.

  The small V50 estate is a great marketing coup- a basic Ford Focus estate rebranded – yet that is small and cramped compared with the Saab 93 wagon, yet it sells on perceptions – a volvo badge and decent interior trim.

  Fact is that is so narrow and cramped you cannot adjust the seat backrest recline wheel as your hand fouls the B post. Unless of course you drive a dealer demo with optional electric seats!

  And the rear load bay is tiny – as it is on the C30 which also share small Ford/Volvo components.

  Its that ‘halo’ effect again- which BMW rely on such much for their tat.

  And the bigger new Volvos share bits with Fords. So lets be wary of any Volvo’s are ‘pure’ claims – but you are correct that Saabs are in danger of dying from genetic modification experiments where other bits are grafted onto the culture. Not good..

• 4 Tompa // Feb 10, 2008 at 10:01 pm

  Brian Mills.. Here we go again.. Since when has Volvo had higher quality or the feel of it in interiors and otherwise?? Volvo is struggeling right now with their C30/S40 and V50 when it comes to electrics and other more serious matters like fuelpumps. The C70 has bin leaking like a sill and the V70 with faulty airbags. And interior has gotten worse on newer modells with hard plastics and other low quality interior materials and items. Volvo sells because of the old saying that it is the safest car in the world.
  One stated that the V50 has a “decent interior trim.”.. Have you ever sat in a V50? It´s no better than a Kia other than the seats that are an equal to the 9-3 in comfort.. Yes I love Saab but I do not hate Volvo. The thing though is that Volvo has gotten from capable (Not premium) to worse, but the “safest car in the world hoaks” forgives them for it.
  Audi succeded in beginning to sell cars because they descided to begin building cars and not rust buckets. The change was so dramatic that the world noticed them. AND Audi is just like someone said that Saab would become.. The best of it´s syblings. It´s worked for them.

• 5 Joe // Feb 10, 2008 at 10:40 pm

  Leaving quality aside for a second, Saab really need to concentrate on matching the likes of BMW in terms of performance and economy. All the talk of “right-sizing” is just that – all talk. Take any engine in the 9-3 range and compare it to the equivalent powered 3-series and you’ll see what I mean:
  9-3 255bhp V6 – 245g/km CO2 vs. BMW 330i 272bhp – 173g/km CO2.
  In fact even the 1.8i 122bhp 9-3 cannot match the low CO2 output of the 330i!
  Even if you don’t believe in global warming you’re going to notice that difference in your pocket when it comes to filling up since CO2 is directly linked to fuel economy.

  In the UK at least E85 is only available in a handful of locations, so for the time being BioPower isn’t much of a selling point. By the time E85 becomes widely available I expect BMW will come out with an engine to make use of it. Saab can’t afford to keep all their eggs in the E85 basket.

  The 1.9 TTiD seems like a great engine, but compare it to BMWs 320d and it doesn’t look so good – the BMW almost matches the Saab on power/torque and thrashes it on economy.

  I’m a big Saab fan, and I’ve got a Turbo X on order. However on paper the 335i would be a much better buy. Fortunately I don’t go by figures alone, but there are a lot of potential Saab buyers out there who do, and at the moment they’re going to be going elsewhere.

• 6 Frank A // Feb 10, 2008 at 10:49 pm

  Th reason SAAB in my opinion can’t compete with BMW and Mercedes, is because they have to share components with other GM brands. BMW does not sell mainstream cars at least not in the US. They focus on luxury cars only, same with Mercedes. When BMW and Mercedes have gone down market they have failed miserably. I am talking about Rover and Chrysler respectively. GM’s bread and butter is mainstream affordable cars. SAAB can compete with Acura and Infiniti in the US. Cadillac has bespoke platforms, interiors etc, that is why they are doing so well in the US. SAAB will never get that kind of investment. To compete with Mercedes and BMW means large rear wheel drive platforms, is that what we want for SAAB? I don’t know about Europe, but in the US Audi is not in the same league as BMW, Mercedes and Lexus. Audi has tried but the fact they are primarily a front/AWD group puts them at a distinct disadvantage with luxury buyers. I think the Future for SAAB is as a premium vs Luxury brand. Premium to me is below full luxury with an emphasis on fun to drive, good build quality and reasonable prices.

• 7 José Galvão // Feb 10, 2008 at 10:56 pm

  My feel is GM is ” sucking ” all the know how of Saab an put it in the other brands….
  The disguise is the talk of commitment they´ve done…
  I really don´t see GM investing in Saab…
  And as Swade said, the time for Saab go to school hasn´t come…

  As you know, i have anemotional link with this brand… My father was ( retired ) an Official mechanic for his brand here in Portugal. I know the brand from inside out and the feel that Saab is getting smaller it´s scaring me….

  IF ( and a big IF ) GM decided to bet on Saab, the know how, the strong engines, the best interior quality, the interesting design… why can´t we be a treath to BMW Merc and Audi??

  But that IF, is so far on the horizont that i just can´t see it….

  My 2c

• 8 elsch // Feb 10, 2008 at 11:19 pm

  Volvo and Saab. – Both owned and controlled by large American companies since around the same time (’99/’00).
  In 1999 Volvo had a range of – more or less – three cars: the S/V40, the S60/V70 and the slow selling S80. When Ford came along, they gave them the XC90, which is, as we all know, quite a seller – in Europe as well as in America.
  The brand image is stable, since the quality remained on the same level as before (neither much premium nor as Korean bargain).
  So, what happend to Saab? – First, GM and the Wallenberg family (Investor AB) tried to create a cash cow by some platform and engine sharing with Opel/Vauxhall. – Opel suffered a bad quality image since they build a lot of boring rusty cars in the 80s and 90s. This still holds on in our days, although the reality changed towards the better… but back to topic. The result of these bits an pieces from Opel can be seen on the market second-hand car market: Saabs with 6-cylinder engines are standing around and handled as gifts, just to get rid of them.
  These cars are slow, thirsty and too comfortable – at least for Europe. It was a wrong-world scenario for many many customers since they once bought Saabs to have a cracker, a BMW hunter, a weapon against all the overloaded Mercs. Back in the 80s, a Saab was a quite expensive car with standard quality and not too many extraordinary features – apart from the Turbo.
  What we had in the 90s were cars for slow old people with hats. – The situation changed a bit when the bigger turbo engines were available on the 9-5 and when the new 9-3 came along.
  But both cars were – and somehow are – boring and conventional. That’s not what the customer of an 80s Saab never wanted. They bought powerful cars with looks from the stone age at high prices – and were happy!
  So, make the Saab an outstanding car again. Don’t just follow the others! – You’re too slow anyway. The life cycle time is nearly double the industry average…
  Take one of your platforms, create some strange beauty on it, give it a nice turbo engine and sell it at a high price. Don’t build an everyday whitegood car. That’s what we Kia for.

  And the last thing: STOP THE AIRCRAFT HERITAGE NONSENSE! – You should not sell planes, you should sell cars!
  And in addition to that: BMW build aircraft engines already long before Saab existed. And so did Rolls-Royce and so did Messerschmidt, and on and on, and on,… it’s by far nothing outstanding!
  Maybe I should add also that Saab aircrafts (at least the military ones) were never used by members NATO… so why put such an advert on American TV?

  Thanks for you attention.
  elsch

  PS: I never owned a car by myself before. So far, I’m just an enthusiast and observer…

• 9 GWC // Feb 10, 2008 at 11:47 pm

  In the States we recently are bombarded with advertisements for the CTS and Malibu. Not only that but the biggest “haters” of SAAB – Consumer Reports, likes both cars.

  The questions is, where do we fit between the two models/brands? Does the 9-3 sit to the side of the CTS?

  Dealers … My dealer is about 40 minutes away and in that same time I probably pass 2 Chevrolet/Buick dealerships and multiple duplicates for other brands. If that dealership closes, I’ll be heading an hour and a half and we have heard about too many closing doors lately.

  Quality – as much as I hate to say it, it is a good thing that GM has eliminated the SAAB interior in the 9-3. The electronics in that car are so complex even good dealerships were left looking with a blank stare. The old K.I.S.S. theory really has a lot going for it (Keep It Simple Stupid). Technology is great, but when you start adding fiber optics for the car audio … you are reaching. When that fatefull day comes after the car is out of warranty and something simple like the radio dies … and the dealer says … No problem, that will be $2,000 .. ouch!

  Fact is, I’m only in a SAAB because I got a fantastic deal … it is infectious though and I am now fully vested in keeping up on the brand both here (thanks) and other sites. How many strange symptoms from my 9-3 will it take before I realize a Malibu will get me from A to B as well and now with the same safety?

• 10 Brian Mills // Feb 10, 2008 at 11:55 pm

  All, Volvo V70 is=to a 9-5SC…but in Canada the difference is about $4000 more for the 9-5 and you can get auto levelling suspension (Saab europe only) and no GM audio – if I was to get a new SAAB I would get a DVD Navi with display which is also nightpanel enabled but the extra $400 for that would make the Tom Tom unit not needed – now if Ford/GM could offer a SYNC for the Mobile Windows in SAAB – hmm. Thanks for your Volvo feedback…I will research before a buy.
  Cloning or GLOBALIZATION of the Auto industry is making the uniqueness of Saab and other brands go away. This is happening to ALL car manufacturers making the exterior doing the talking to explain a brand story. Maybe I will buy a used 9-5 03-05 model? Time will tell, so far the MY06-93SC with non-GM button filled non working telephone hookup fits the bill. Maybe my local dealer will have more Saab sales in time, the dollars may stabalize against the EURO and Saturn dealers will make more money on SAAB to drive it up market towards the Audi/BMW’s/Volvo’s/Lexus/infiniti/Jaguar fo the world.

• 11 Saab Tart // Feb 10, 2008 at 11:58 pm

  I have worked for SAAB in the UK dealer network since the late 1980s – long before GM were involved at all, never mind completely running the show! Let me make it quite plain – I love SAAB cars & I love them more now than ever before. Sales in the UK were slow in January – as published elsewhere on your site. There were several reasons for this.

  The new TTiD Aero models are something the UK market has been crying out for. When it was launched, it created enormous interest, with a excellent order-take – certainly where I work. These cars were due in late December, but were delayed becuase of engine supply delays. Hence the cars were not delivered until February instead of January.

  Dealers have also been focused on clearing the final stocks of 2007 models – Anniversaries etc – rather than selling new models.

  There is no doubt that SAAB is currently struggling in the UK with- effectively – only one model – the 9-3. 9-5 sales are very slow – even though the 9-5 is still a geat drive – it is preceived by th market as old-hat & past its sell-by date. This is not my view but that of the people who spend their money on cars in this bracket.

  The 9-3 Turbo X – SAAB have done NO advertising in the UK as yet. However, forward-orders are good when you realise that the general public has not been informed of this.

  We all know – we need new product – th 9-4X & 9-1 ‘concepts’ will be at the London Motor Show this summer. This will create a lot of fresh interest in the brand & take it to new markets.

  The SAAB product has just as much individual charcter as ever it has in the past. The use os some common GM components has no negative effect on this. You cannot sit in a Vectra, then 9-3 & see anything vital that gives anything away. Who cares? The cars drive completely differently & the build-quality of the latest SAABs is superb.

  Like everyone else – I cannot wait for the new models but if they are as well built as the latest 2008 93s then the SAAB tradition will continue.

• 12 vagabond // Feb 11, 2008 at 12:41 am

  Style-Power-Quality
  They need to do a better job making more exciting looking exteriors. Many people are buying Audis because they are visually attractive. The side view of the 9-3 is Japanese-very ordinary. It isn’t distinctive. To tell you the truth, looking at pictures of the 9-4x concept, I wasn’t very impressed. I thought, I would have to see it in person. However when I looked at pics of the Land Rover LR2 concept, it was very eyecatching and stunning.
  Another thing- the General is American and own Saab. Americans believe in straight talk, results and cash money. Present Saab management and designers have to produce(since they cannot be fired because of the system).

• 13 Matt // Feb 11, 2008 at 1:42 am

  Am I the only one that thinks that as GM’s guidence may be a positive in the future. I would argue that GM, yes GM, has put out some of the most talked about and stiking vehicals in their respective markets in the last 1-2 years. Furthermore, many of their concept cars are truly impressive. It is clear that there is a new level of product quality and innovation that is or will be flowing out of Detroit.

  I am a huge Saab fan (owned 99, 900 T, 9000CD, Viggen, 9-3 Aero Conv) but let’s start to live in reality and admit that Saab cannot compete without the help of a major car manufacturer. With GM supposedly supporting SAAB with previously unavailable resources, I think Saab an flourish in the next 2-3 years, but GM is key.

  Would you rather be in Volvo’s position with having Ford as its parent company. GM is significantly further ahead with its transformation.

  As much as we would like to see Saab grow on its own, GM provides the best way to realize that potential.

• 14 Mike // Feb 11, 2008 at 1:48 am

  For me Saab represents distinctive design, adequate power, and simplicity not excess.

  More and more people are becoming concerned with fuel economy. Evidence of this is the popularity of the Mini Cooper and recent interest in the Smart and the Tesla roadster. I think it would be a shame if Saab doesn’t capitalize on this and launch a well designed and appointed compact 5-door. It’s a niche that Saab has had historically and shouldn’t abandon in developing a sports sedan.

  My hope is that the 9-1 is distinctively designed and not simply a rebadge of the Opel Astra as was the 9-2x to the Impreza and the Saab 9-3 to the BLS. Rebadging on premium cars never help sales and in the process only dilutes the exclusivity of the brand. With a premium product, perception is everything.

• 15 ctm // Feb 11, 2008 at 2:17 am

  Matt,

  You are not alone!

  As I said many times before… Without GM there would be no Saab at all. They have put up with huge losses for almost two decades. Name one other company that would have done the same. I know about the American way of doing business. “vagabond” say they believe in results and cash money. Well, the history clearly tells another tale… And as the one who saved Saab, GM actually have every right to benefit from the know-how at Saab. So I’m getting a little bit tired of the opinion that GM only takes. Yes, it takes. But it also gives. It gives money. And it gives other things as well. Who do you think have paid for the development of all the new platforms that Saab gonna use? One thing is for sure: it’s not Saab. It has been paid for by other brand inside GM that sold cars and sold them with a profit. When the history is written in the future, I wouldn’t be so surprised if the truth is that people inside Saab (thinking they were doing “the right thing”) was the ones that delayed all new products for years because of this and that, trying to preserve an old dream…

  Also… Any comparison between Saab and Volvo is pointless. Saab had two outdated models, had no R & D, and made huge losses when GM saved them. It was a mismanaged company. Volvo had a model range, an extenisve R & D for years, and was making a profit when Ford stepped in. Comparing them today is also pointless. Saab is owned by GM which (for bad but also for good) is a rather soulless organisation. And that is what it should be. Volvo is owned by Ford, one of the most well-know brands. There are family members named Ford at the board. Anyone think they really care a rats ass about any other brand in the end? They have their name to protect.

  Parts of the die-hard Saab community is still trying to live on an old dream and it doesn’t work. The cars not selling in the real world outside this site. That is a fact. They need something new. And trust me, that “new” is not a replica of a 900 from 25 years ago because that’s not gonna sell either. The “new” is something of the future. And I think that can be combined with important details of the Saab heritage (and by that I don’t mean whole sheets of body-work…). In a big family like GM, Saab can share the basic R & D with others and concentrate at making their cars unique instead of (excuse my lame expression…) spending time and money re-inventing the wheel all be them self.

  Saab really need a new model line-up. But looking at the turn the auto industry has taking the last 1-2 years, I’m somehow glad that Saab is still in the process of bringing out that new model line-up and therefore being able to adjust it according to reality.

• 16 jc_atl // Feb 11, 2008 at 2:19 am

  As much as I like the exterior of the 9-3 Sports Sedan, the abandonment of a SAAB trademark, the hatchback, was an admission that SAAB needed to lose some of itself to look more like what it considered to be its competition. Now, they are just another sports sedan against a sea of the same, many that offer better performance, better interiors and better build quality.

  My first foray into SAAB was a lightly used 1998 900SE Turbo coupe. I traded a 4-door Ford Explorer for it, and found the sportiness mixed with the utility of the hatch and fold down seats to be a great compromise. In order to get close to this level of utility in SAAB these days I’m forced to buy a wagon which I have no desire for. If forced into a 4-door sedan, I’m forced to consider the 9-3 amongst a sea of other sedans that offer (IMO) more for my money in a variety of areas.

  I know it’s a pipe dream to think that GM would ever allow SAAB to build a hatch (perhaps the 9-1?) but if SAAB offered a 3-door hatch with rear seats that folded flat right now they’d offer something to compete in an area that as far as I know is untapped in the US by the other premium/luxury European brands. Audi has the A3 which is just a (volks)wagon that never grew up, and I don’t think BMW plans to bring the hatch version of the 1 series to the US. SAAB should seize this opportunity to produce a vehicle (even a variant of the redesigned 9-3) that revives the tradition and looks of the 900 and raises the bar as far as quality and performance. I’m afraid it’s too late – I don’t see GM taking any risks with SAAB at this point, quite the opposite. Sure, SAAB needs a a sugar daddy like GM to survive, but frankly I’d love to see another parent owner give it a shot at this point. The Cadillac CTS has gotten rave reviews and you can bet that GM will be pushing that car hard in Europe. If Europeans ever start giving Cadillac a fair look and buying them then GM will lose any incentive it has to continue propping up SAAB. Right now GM is gambling that Cadillac can eventually be a credible premium brand in Europe and that leaves SAAB nowhere.

• 17 Mike C // Feb 11, 2008 at 2:20 am

  Brian: Be carefull with the Volvo purchase.. I am not saying that it’s not a good, safe car because it is. My wife drives the XC-90 and she loves it. What I am suggesting is that Volvo would like nothing more than to be done with Ford. I just finished talking with my Volvo sales person and he confirmed that they are counting the days. With any luck TATA will purchase them like they did Jag. At least they spend money. Also, ask your self this, why is it that Volvo as a premium brand, offers no free maintnenace schedule for any of it’s cars. Saab as well as other manufacturers do offer that. Volvo loves to hit you on the repairs. Just had the XC 90in for service, the car had 16,900.00 miles on it, well maintained and I have 7 months left on a 2 year lease. They tell me I need all new tires that I must pay for. (approximate cost: $1,200.00 after all is said and done). The Tek. tells me the tires are “soft, and you know it’s full time all wheel drive…” could be lack of keeping up with the tire pressure… After I pointed out to him that the car is NOT CONSTANT ALL WHEEL DRIVE, AND THE TIRE PRESSURE MONITOR NEVER CAME ON, He did’t have much to say. and as for the “soft” comment, this is not a low profile high performance tire, all tires should not wear like that, so fast. I will be meeting with Volvo customer warrantee this week and will state my case. Volvo likes dealing withthe well to do so they can hit you for evert little thing. If this were the end of a 3-4 year lease I could understand. Overall the dealer is ok, good loaners and access to appointments. As far as the C-70 goes, Volvo thinks they have a the Bently GTC in it’s stable.
  While writing up my wife’s car, I mentioned that I purchased a CPO 04 SAAB VERT. that I love, so far… The guy behind the counter shot back that the C-70 was far superior in evey way. I asked him how, not safety, not trunk room, definately not price… All he could talk about was the retractible roof. I pointed out to him the cramped trunk space with top down, the leak and squeek issues and the constant roof dent issues when lowering the top. I also pointed out the most recent recall for the new C-70 2 DAY RECALL TO FIX MINOR TOP ISSUES. Suddenly that guy vanished from the writers station. Other customer heard me and commented on the good argument. Again, Volvo is not a bad car,they are NO BETTER than Saab.

• 18 Dan9-1 // Feb 11, 2008 at 2:29 am

  theres only one big problem if GM want to go with Cadillac…
  the general opinion of Cadillac in the UK and I think in wider Europe is that it is still a cheap American brand trying to sell cars which are overpriced compared to the German alternatives.
  Saab could prove to be a good alternative to these for a number of reasons…
  1. It’s European and makes it more appealing to Europeans.
  2. It inherinatally (or however you spell it) different to the germans, because it swedish and should not be made to copy them, it should be as good as if not slightly downmarket of them. Why? because as the Germans aim more upmarket I think that Saab could enter into a sub-market just below them, with the top models aiming into the lower models of the Germans.
  3. Saab could be the new Audi, without all the German-ness and not feeling like Munich airport, which is too clean and souless. I think a Saab should have more soul than the Germans but not be as fiery as an Alfa, as the Swedes are a bit more restrained. It should also have a cool factor, be clean and crisp and possibly slightly understated, but perfectly formed so that you don’t notice or need to remember where all the buttons and knobs are in the car, they should somehow be all be where you expect them to be and be very driver focussed.
  4. The quality needs to be improved inside, this is the one area where Cadillac’s opinion in the public eye will not help them, but with Saab it could help drastically. It needs to be like swedish furniture on the inside, with form and function using the best materials availible (within reason obviously).
  4. Saab must keep to its roots and mustn’t be washed out by the GM giant and its slightly American “focus group” designs. Hopefully this will not happen but it shouldn’t under any circumstances.

  If this sucks money from GM, then so be it, but as they say in business, Saab needs to be cruel to be kind to get customers back on thier side. Even though this will lose money in the short term it should gain money in the long term, because the general opinion of Saab will improve and this will bring in more customers.
  This might make Saab a sell out and take it further away from “our” Saab, but it will help the company to do what is voiced on Trollhattan Saab by Swade and others, but I hope that it’ll make it better and bring what we love about these to more people, the quirkiness etc.
  And please GM forget Cadillac in Europe I don’t think it will work very well.
  And stick and work with Saab As Matt says with the right funding it should work, and forget for the moment trying to make it profitable, get the quality a bit better and get better residual values, not sure how that one will work but if theres demand then it should work….
  Well that was my 2p worth and sorry for the long post but I had to get it off my chest

• 19 Tedjs // Feb 11, 2008 at 2:45 am

  I think for Saab to be successful they need to focus on a few key areas:

  Product – They need to provide dealers with vehicles to sell. The 9-5 is simply outdated and the 9-7 is a Chevy Trailblazer with the ignition key between the seats. How can a dealer compete when they simply have no product to sell? Not everyone wants a 9-3 – not matter how great of a product it has become.

  Customer service – Once you have product, you need to provide your customers with the best service experience during the sale and through all aspects of vehicle ownership. GM dealers still ‘worry’ me in this area. Consolidations and dealer closings currently going on cannot be good for customers who need vehicles serviced and supported. I think the new Chevy Malibu is a great product but Chevy dealers providing exceptional service is another story in my experience.

  The one thing that is a problem here in the USA is the glut of dealers for GM. Honda, for example sells a lot of cars out of a smaller dealer network. This allows ‘that’ dealer to make more money and invest it into such things as a world class sale and service department which results in some of the above results.

  GM is starting to address this and will most likely drop a bomb on some of those mom and pop stores soon. Closing down that ‘good old boys network’ of dealers is going to cost them a lot of money and take some time as they go out kicking and screaming.

• 20 Steve C. // Feb 11, 2008 at 3:23 am

  Here is the problem as I see it. Let me preface by saying that I am the proud owner of a ’94 9000 Aero and I’m obsessed with it, but this does not mean that SAAB is beyond criticism.

  GM is both a blessing and a curse for SAAB. They squander the potential of the brand but provide the company with the necessary marketing and R&D money that they’ve never had.

  Look at the 80s to 90s era in the company. SAAB had a winner early on with the C900 but for twenty years simply did not have the money to engineer itself out of the vehicle. The oft-splendid 9000 sedan was itself based on the co-op Group Four design with Fiat, Alfa, and Lancia.

  SAAB is once again at a crossroads where it has a long-standing vehicle that it has not, or can not, engineer itself out of. But there’s a difference now. The C900 was unique, appealed to a certain brand of customer, and, dare I use the Q-word, “quirky.” It had a very unique, practical and safe appeal. The 9000, though its lifespan was not quite as long, had much the same appeal, and still does to the certain type of people I still see driving them. It takes real faith to still drive a V6 CDE in this day and age.

  The new 9-3 and 9-5 especially are now geriatric and do not have that sort of lasting appeal. They have been largely stripped of many of the unique features of the C900 that kept people buying them even after they were positively obscolescent. No touted hatchback practicality, lessening SAAB “functional” interior design, and more fade-into-the-crowd styling.

  Lightning can’t strike twice for SAAB, and many claim that it was GM in the first place that saved them from their first rut. The solution, of course, is a return to uniqueness – not a sad “retro” turn like the PT Cruiser, but an embracing of those interesting characteristics that made people buy SAABs 20 years ago. Sorry to whom I may offend, but there is nothing interesting about a 9-3SS. With the 9-3 replacement and the hopeful 9-1x, SAAB needs to bring back their iconic hatchback design and jaw-dropping interior room. Interior design needs to improve, as does overall quality. And despite the confoundingly poor approach towards producing the Turbo X, SAAB’s new XWD system is absolutely crucial to keeping them competitive.

  Couldn’t hurt for engine power to climb too. My Aero’s 225hp was very impressive in ’94. It is 2007, and average power figures for high-end SAABs are barely higher. A real competitor to cement SAAB’s former “practical but damn quick” reputation would be ideal, perhaps a new 325hp Viggen to fly the flag?

• 21 Jorgen 'the law' // Feb 11, 2008 at 3:56 am

  I believe Gm’s current plan from the concept of Aero X forward is changing for the better.

  In US, they are branding Saab,Caddy & Hummer together as premium group.As someone stated the quick turn around of Saturn via Opel, is a example of how Saab be done, but the problem is Saab has more baggage then Saturn b/c Saab has been neglected for longer.

  By joining Saab and others that places Saabs in a common place(not out of the way) and allows Saab to become everything it should; FWD-XWD,Right sized engine to eco friendly,and striking simple styled vehicles.

  If you want over the top in your face Caddy is your Man!

• 22 Jorgen \'the law\' // Feb 11, 2008 at 3:59 am

  Saab is Sleeper

• 23 Ivan (MuzX) // Feb 11, 2008 at 4:07 am

  I think, Saab should focus much more on green-power, especially hybrid cars. (Let’s make the BioPower Hybrid as the concept Cabrio).
  The E85 seems more and more doubtful as an enviromental-friendly fuel, the EU will change it’s policy to don’t support it, if Saab wants to keep it’s eco-image, new technology should be found.
  Other important issue is the quality and reliability.

• 24 DJ // Feb 11, 2008 at 4:28 am

  Swade,

  Interesting synopus of Saab’s market situation. THis should create some dynamic discussions and debates. I was looking for the donations button can’t find it yet. Sure wish there was a blog like this for Porsche (when are you going to start one…ha! ha!). I have always had a soft spot for the 968. They go for about $15,000 to $25,000 USD at this time. I was at MCl when they came out and remember doing the Dealer test drives with 2 French guys (from Montreal) who were the Porsche Press reps at the time. I was amazed that I was able to drive a 968 at a 140-160 km’s over the Granville Street bridge with no supervision… no one else in the car. I had only being working at MCl for 3 months. My memory always sticks in my mind. I probably drove 300 or more cars over 8 years at MCL and one of my highlights will be zipping across the Granville Street bridge at 9 PM in a silver 968.

  Take care,

  DJ

  P.S. You need spell check for guys like me.

• 25 No.9 // Feb 11, 2008 at 4:32 am

  Joe is spot on.
  When we bought our 9-5 in 2001, it was the only car that combined so many qualities, including a relatively efficient 4 banger. Today, Saab engines are antiquated and not as environmentally friendly as most of it’s competitors-and please spare me the E85 bull. Only (certain) Americans can say without laughing that its good for the environment to produce crops using tonnes of damaging fertilizers to propel inefficient gas guzzling cars instead of using that precious land to feed people (around the world, not only the rich and overweight North americans). The only people profiting from this W-approved scam is corn growers, multinationals that produce fertilizers and american car manufacturers that get credits for building E85 capable cars that will never see a drop of ethanol in any case. Just what this planet needs eh !
  I will not buy another Saab because of all the (lack of) quality issues we have had to endure, and believe me, the list is extensive and expensive, but if I put that aside, I would not buy another Saab until they come up with something better for the environment under the hood.
  So to put things bluntly, if Saab is part of the solution I hope it grows. If its part of the problem, just put the agonizing beast out of its misery.
  * You have to be deaf blind and really dumb not to believe in global warming. That remind you somebody ?

• 26 Jeff // Feb 11, 2008 at 5:08 am

  So…are we just doing Saab, or GM in general with a focus on Saab? Because I really don’t think you can talk about how to fix Saab without taking the rest of GM into account.

• 27 Matt // Feb 11, 2008 at 5:09 am

  A question that has killed me for years? How the heck can there not have been any modiciations to the current 2.0T in the 9-3 since the new 9-3 range 5 years ago?

  How about bumping the HP or Torque, better yet, about about direct ignition that would result in higher HP and better MPG.

  Saab has branded this “responsible performance” image, but when you look at it closer, Saab’s combo of performance/fuel economy is becoming more average by the month.

  This E85 movement is suspect at best. There is a significant drop in fuel economy and there are conflicting reports on benefit of producing ethonal on the enviornment.

  This is the exact reason why direct ignition is a better path as it truly focuses on responsible performance with added HP and better MPG. Look at the 9-4X with the 2.0T DI, 245 HP and 255 lbs/torque. If Saab wants to compete in the $30,000 to $40,000 USD market, then it needs to offer advancements vs. competitors.

  Look for what the 2009 Audi A4 2.0T will combine in performance and MPG…

• 28 zippy // Feb 11, 2008 at 5:14 am

  Firstly to Mike C, Saab does not offer free maintenance here in Canada and prices their 9-3 2.0T within CA$100 of the C230, 323i and A4 the latter two offering such a program. The only Saab dealer here in the Vancouver area has no Saabs on its front lot just a bunch of Saturns, second-hand Infiniti and Chevy cars. Saab must be paired with Cadillac.

  Now to the issue at hand.

  Quality. Quality. Quality. Without it Saab is done. Moving production to Germany, I hate to say, should improve things here. Maybe then Saab cars can command a price tag that matches the aforementioned cars. Can anyone tell me why the 2008 9-3 has deadlocks that ‘clunk’ like my Ford Focus when the 2003 9-3 model got rid of that awful clunking noise? I noticed that after the drive in the 08 9-3 and that cheap sounding clunk shocked me!

  Technology. I want Bluetooth and so do others. It was advertised way back in 2003 and still we dont have it! Put XWD as a no-cost option on the 9-3 and advertise the hell out of it. It beat a 911 in a slalom, supposedly, so it appears we have a 9-3 that handles like Saab cars ie C900 used to when it was a 3 series beater in the 80s. At the moment Saab cars have Chevy technology at upmarket prices. Not good!

  TURBO – Its synonymous with Saab. Dont hide it, slap a Turbo badge on ALL Saabs that are so equipped. It turns a mundane experience into something that will bring a smile to your face. Saab totally blew it with the Turbo X – that baby needed 300plus bhp. A number that could be used to kick some serious 335i butt. As it is, its a gussied up Aero with funky wheels.

  Customer service – Lexus is an example of an excellent customer experience. Audi dealerships are surly, ignorant and would never get a penny of my money. Saab dealerships here are very friendly, sell Saab cars but their dealers are Saturn standard. The dealer who kindly took me out in the 08 I drove said the car was a twin turbo with 200bhp! I said i was interested in the XWD model and he said XWD is not necessary as we don’t get much snow in Vancouver. Obviously he doesn’t know what XWD is meant to do. Can someone tell me how much the Turbo X is going to cost here in Canada as I think GM Canada has lost the two emails I sent to them? Chevy service with BMW pricing.

  Style. Saab needs to create news. Cars are beginning to take on quirky styling when Saab starts to head toward a much more conservative look. The 08 9-3 is definitely headed in the right direction with that ‘get out of my way’ front fascia.
  There are two things any new Saab needs 1) a sloping profile (totally missing on the 9-4X), and 2) the ‘hockeystick’. I have said this before but Scandinavians should design Saab cars – they have some kind of ‘built in’ function defines form ethos that is not found anywhere else. Ergonomics, I love that word!

  Here in North America we get two engine options. Why wont Saab import the 2.0t with 175bhp and sell it as a base model? Diesels – gimme a TTiD!

  Saab needs an overhaul! A more sporty image, better quality control and more models. Without it…well I dont even want to go there.

• 29 Dan9-1 // Feb 11, 2008 at 5:33 am

  so basically Saab needs almost a complete overhaul of everything apart from their design from the Aero X and 9-4x interior?

• 30 Jeff // Feb 11, 2008 at 5:36 am

  …But I guess I’ll try anyway.

  As for the actual product…we’ve repeated Saab’s needs on that front ad nauseum on this website. Better interior materials (or at least cover up the crappy materials with leather), more efficient engines, a real halo car, better cupholders (bleck), and Bluetooth (more bleck). Also, new 9-5, 9-1, so on and so forth.

  As for the Saab experience…their dealer network seems to suck right now. I’m always hearing stories about having to drive way too many hours in any direction to get to a dealer. I think standalone Saab dealers are good, but in situations where there are no Saabs for sale for 200 miles, adding Saabs to Cadillac (or Buick) dealers would really help. Also, said dealers need to be friendly and clean. They need to look like BMW dealerships and act like Saturn dealerships.

  As for the corporate side…ADVERTISING ADVERTISING ADVERTISING JESUS CHRIST ADVERTISING. You know when the last time I saw a Saab ad, on tv or in print or in ANY FORM AT ALL? Aside from those Bridgestone ads, which obviously don’t really count, NEVER. Not one billboard, commercial, or magazine spread, and I’ve sure as hell kept an eye out for them. No one is going to buy a Saab if they’ve never heard of Saab. Oh, and GM, when you do finally decide to advertise Saab, come up with something better than Born From Jets. It was cool for a while, but it’s just cheesy at this point.

  I’m worried that Saab is turning into Buick a little bit. The cars are too expensive for anyone but older people with stable jobs to afford, and, aside from the occasional nutjob like me (or mo, or that other young guy on here that I can’t remember the name of right now, sorry), you never see younger people driving them, unless they’re old beaters that used to belong to their parents. I think that sounds a lot like Buick’s current problem. Well, of course, the solution is to sell cars to younger people. Saab isn’t Buick. Buick will never move downmarket to appeal to younger people. Saab can, because that’s really where they came from. Point? The 9-1 had better be competitive. Saab can keep selling the larger cars to dentists and doctors and highly-paid professionals and whatnot, but the 9-1 has to sell to a much wider audience, and to do this, it has to be cheap and good. Basically, it should be a BMW 1-series, only $5k cheaper and less fugly. And with no N/A engines. It’s important to keep that going.

• 31 BrianL // Feb 11, 2008 at 6:20 am

  One word. Product. I can’t buy a SAAB if you don’t have anything to sell. My 04 9-3 is getting long in the tooth. I am itching for something new. What does SAAB have for me? The same car I bought four years ago with new headlights and door handles. I’ve driven mine for more than 100K miles with a big grin on my face. It has been good to me and I know it will go for another 100K easily. If this were still 2004, I would buy the car again. But this is not 2004. I don’t want 2003 technology. (One might even argue that the 2008 SAAB has LESS technology than the 2003 models!) Nor do I want to move “up” to the 9-5 which is 1997 technology. I have no where to go but to the dealer across the street.

  SAAB absolutely needs to bring their product up to date and to replace them more frequently. Something has got to happen within the four years that the average American keeps their car or you can kiss your repeat customers goodbye.

• 32 Ken H // Feb 11, 2008 at 6:42 am

  Saab needs to figure out which market they want to be in, and then adapt to the demands from that market. If they want to play in the extremely tough “premium” market, they have to step up the quality big time, and improve service a whole lot. You can get away with some quality issues if the service is top class, whereas combining average quality and service is not good.

• 33 wilfried // Feb 11, 2008 at 7:33 am

  1) To create a greater Halo-effect get SAAB in the DTM-racing & WRC rally championship and later on in other racing activities & classes (except F1). Nothing in the current line-up to be competitive ? Well an Audi A4 or a BMW 3 in the DTM isn’t a real production car but a race car with the far away-looks of the production version, only grill & the overall shape are in common. Citroen C4-cgi’s of the WRC-version appeared more or less together with the presentation of the C4 coupé production car. Get the 9-4X shape in the Dakar-race, or the forthcoming Dakar-series, etc..

  2) Get SAAB to win in this motorsport. It works even for Renault as an Halo with their F1-try-out since the seventies and it works for Mitsubishi with their ‘Pajeros’ dominating all the last years in Dakar. It still works for Lotus and Porsche, both with great history in all kinds of motorsports but on the actual scene not much in the races anymore (except the 911-derivates).

  3) Keep on developping at all levels. And get the marketing spread the news. Top product, top engineering, … BMW does this year after year and they did it for the MINI in much smaller amount of time.
  Do not forget the SAFETY-aspects and match those with motorsport and with lightweight construction. Spread the word that real-life safety is something more develloped and something more important than the mere 4 or 5 stars at EURONCAP (or its Aussie & US-pendants).

  4) Keep the design pure and do not follow the Bangles and the other shapers of all ugliness on the roads (certainly never drop the driver orientated dashboard).

  5) Be a trendsetter and not a follower. Be something different than all other brands, especially different from other GM-products in order to obtain a certain individual status, so SAAB doesn’t need to be compared with Saturn & Vauxhal/Opel/Holden/etc – products.

  6) Be more customer orientated, i.e. get them to choose from more interior styles (look what Fiat & Alfa Romeo does), to choose from more motorisations (look at Audi/BMW/Mercedes for that item). SAAB does have a long way to go in those matters.

  7) Keep the quality high. Higher than the others.
  And spread the word.

  (Hell, why did neither the 2006 nor the 2007 test reviews compilation from Auto Motor & Sport in Germany have a single SAAB pubilcated last year, that is curious, and it my have different reasons, some of them maybe nothing to do with the SAAB products, but that should not happen again !).

  Get more production models on the road (not only as fast as possible, but well engineered and with top quality & reliability from day 1): 9-1, 9-3X, 9-4X, new 9-5, and 9X, Aero-X ….. ? So called premium brands like Audi, BMW & Mercedes make a lot of money with their basic and smaller cars. BMW is actually thinking of a new brand with smaller cars in future, next to MINI and smaller than the actual 1-series – it all has to do with high prices for fuels in future. A car bigger than the current 9-5 isn’t a real issue in Europe, it might be in the US. Audi is preparing its A1 for production. Anybody ever thought of a mercedes A & B-class 10 years ago ? The downsizing of cars has started, if you miss this opportunity it’s even going to be harder to catch up than the late (or wrong) start in the SUV-market.

• 34 wilfried // Feb 11, 2008 at 7:35 am

  How did i get that smiley with sunvisors there ?
  Must have done something, i didn’t do before.

• 35 jorgen\ // Feb 11, 2008 at 7:49 am

  its 8 with ) =

• 36 Richo // Feb 11, 2008 at 10:28 am

  i have a question..

  Why would you buy a Saab over a Subaru Liberty?

  I’m interested to hear opinions.

• 37 turbin // Feb 11, 2008 at 11:08 am

  Richo,

  Hard question to answer at the higher end of the Liberty/Saab range. For me at the bottom end the price for a 9-3 1.8t Sportcombi and a Liberty 2.5 Premium wagon was pretty lineball. Both offered very similar space front and back.

  Two things in Saabs favour:

  1: The Saab, while a bit dated as a whole, is all of a piece design wise. The Subaru mixed older and newer plastics and exterior so had clearly been ‘retrofitted’ to look current. For me this lacked class. Also the ‘premium’ touches seemed more add-on in the Liberty while they were integral in the Saab.

  2: The engines. The Subaru is a N/A engine and was higher powered but lower torqued. Even in 1.8t form the 9-3 offers really nice (if relaxed) turbo-charged progress. Furthermore, as you know Richo, turbocharged engines respond very well to the right treatment.

• 38 wilfried // Feb 11, 2008 at 11:11 am

  Richo, Your Subaru Liberty is the same as our Legacy.
  I must admit, I was tempted by that one before.
  To answer your question correct, I love its quirkiness (not a SAAB-virtue only, it seems) and its AWD. What put it out of the picture for me was the absense of diesel. Now that argument has gone, and subaru is the only brand that dares to enlighten their website with a big empty petrol station …
  http://www.boxerdiesel.com/

  So, I have no arguments left not to drive the subaru ? Don’t know as I still haven’t driven it. But I prefer the SAAB because of its soul, I guess, which is a complete irrational aspect. And the Legacy is to me at the moment option Nr. 2, after any SAAB.

  If GM de-SAABS the SAAB-brand and makes next generation of i.e. 9-5 a badged engineered and restyled Opel Insignia, the Legacy will certainly attract me above all Krautwagons.

  Altough most of you SAAB-die hards, didn’t like the 9-2X experiment, SAAB/GM had something which could have been brilliant, as the Subaru basis for the 9-2X is in my opinion was a very good car. If they tried harder & did something more than just a nose-correction and a griffin-badge …

• 39 Markac // Feb 11, 2008 at 11:12 am

  I think GM are at a crossroads with Saab now.
  Yes they may have been there for some time, but perhaps they are finally begiinning to realize it? The next 3-4 years will be make or break time for Saab and GM has to be prepared to finally give the brand a real chance.
  The half hearted stance it has taken since the launch of the 9-3SS has to give way to some major backing. The 9-1 has the potential to be Saab’s most important model in many markets and has to be done right. The 9-5 replacement is important too for the US in particular. The 9-4x is of lesser importance, but is still needed in the line up. If GM fails with the 9-1 and the new 9-5, there will be little market left by the time the new 9-3 arrives, and GMs window of opportunity with Saab will have closed. If GM is not prepared to give at least 3 years of solid commitment then now is the time to bail out.

  If GM sold, who would buy? I can imagine BMW, Mercedes, Tata and perhaps Renault or even Porsche? I would hate to see it go to VW/Audi as it have a terrible time trying to find it’s place amongst their mulitude of brands. This could possibly happen if Porsche were to buy Saab.

  Anyway as a Saab driver for twenty years I can only hope and speculate. Sometimes I wish I had a crystal ball!

• 40 turbin // Feb 11, 2008 at 11:22 am

  To follow Richo’s line of questioning;

  Why would you buy a Saab XWD Aero over a VW Passat R32?

• 41 wilfried // Feb 11, 2008 at 11:36 am

  The amount of torque in a TTiD is with 400 Nm far above the 196 Nm (2,0) / 227 Nm (2,5) or 297 Nm (3,0) as offered in the Legacy, and those are petrol, not diesel. So in figures I still doesn’t have to be ashamed of a SAAB, it is not a soul-thing only.

  Saab announces the XWD at the moment only in combination with the 2,8 petrol as a 2.8TR XWD (280 pk – i do not know the amount of torque).

  I think SAAB should offer XWD with the TTiD as well. And why not with the convertible ? More choices should be possible …

• 42 Markac // Feb 11, 2008 at 11:39 am

  “Why would you a Saab 9-3 XWD Aero over a VW Passat R32 or Subaru Legacy/ Liberty etc.? ”

  Well I guess you are brand loyal or you wouldn’t be reading this? We are getting off topic a bit.
  We are really discussing what GM needs to do or what we would do with GM to keep us brand loyal?

• 43 Mike S // Feb 11, 2008 at 12:27 pm

  Matt,

  My first car was a Saab 96, V-4. I now own a 2001 Saab 9-5 which, with 140K+ miles on it will soon be passed on to my son when he gets his license this year. Don’t get me wrong, I love my 9-5 and it’s still a great car to drive. But as I began looking at my next car I can see why many of the problems your other readers mentioned combine to limit Saab’s appeal and sales, and are impacting my purchase choice including the following;
  1. Pricing & Interior Quality – Forget about BMW or Mercades, step inside a Cadallac CTS or Chevy’s Malibu LTZ the fit, finish, materials od both are superior to that of a 9-3 Aero, let alone the base car, and the list price of the malibu is less then a 9-3 Aero and the CTS is about the same. All three are GM products, and the Malibu is on the same Episilon platform as the 9-3. First impressions count, and Saab loses this round. GM needs to find a way to put the same quality interiors in the 9-3 as in their other two offerings and adjust pricing.
  2. Competiton – This summer my daughter bought her first new car. I tried to steer her toward a 9-3, but even with all the rebates, she went with a Jetta GLI. Before all your readers give some knee jerk reaction about how the Jetta isn’t in the same class, etc. Let me say that the turbo-4 on her Jetta is a smoother more responsive engine then the turbo 4 on my 9-5, or the new 9-5′s I’ve been test driving, and her DSG transmission is as sweet and responsive as anyone could want. Also her car was less expensive then a comperable 9-3, even with all the give-aways. Saab needs affordible entry level pordcuts to attract a new generation of drivers and those prodcuts need drivetrains as good as the competition.
  3. Aging product line – Saab’s products are just too old, by the time the new second generation 9-5 comes out BMW will have introduced its third generation 5 series spanning the same time period. The same is true with the 9-3. Saab can’t hold on to customers with 7 – 10 year old designs.
  4. Value – Complain all we want about how “dumb” the buying public is in not recognizing the value of Saab’s or overvalueing the competition, but when I see a 07 9-3 Aero with 9K MILES going for around $23K from a Saab dealer I challenge anyone to find the same level of depreciation on a 07 3 series BMW with a comperable MSRP when it was sold. That in itself, especailly knowing the magnitude of incentives that most likely will be offered this summer on 08 9-3′s and 9-5′s would, all things being equal, keep me from buying a Saab until then. GM would be better off dropping the price and eliminate rebates, which, if they can address the other problems with a more up to date and better prodcut might enable them to build Saab’s reputation and ulitmately allow it to move up-market.
  Aside from that, I read your blog daily and think your the best marketing tool Saab has.

• 44 Adam // Feb 11, 2008 at 12:55 pm

  Richo, I wouldn’t. The Legacy GT kicks butt. It’s what the 9-3 should be.

• 45 Chris // Feb 11, 2008 at 12:55 pm

  I love the Saab brand. I love its qurky characteristics and driving dynamics. Saab needs to undergo a rennicaunce similar to Cadillac & Saturn. The one problem I see with Saab is that it does not have a full vehicle line up to offer to customers. Right now there are 3 vehicles to choose from. Below are some random thoughts/notes Ive had to bring Saab back to prominence in the Global market and they read as follows:

  Vehicle, Chassis, Engines , Random Thoughts: -

  9-1 - Astra - 1.8T & 2.0T - The Holden Torana would be a good option if XWD could be incorporated into the design. Couple that with a high output turbo 4 and it would be a BMW 1 Series & A-3 killer!
  __________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

  9-3 - EP I - 1.8T, 2.0T, - Enhanced driving dynamics coupled with striking exterior styling would draw folks to the showrooms. Continued with 3.6L (315HP) the interior design direction of the 9-4X, plus GM’s much improved build quality would make this a serious player. They need to elevate production int. quality to Audi levels!
  __________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

  9-5 - EP II - 2.0T / 3.6L (315HP) The redesigned 9-5 needs to be beautiful. I envision a silhouette similar to the Jaguar XF, and in interior more Turbo V-6 revolutionary to take SAAB to next level and compete squarely with BMW & Audi. Again, interior quality needs to be of the highest level, and the exterior design needs to be a revolutionary evolution of the SAAB brand to be successful.
  __________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

  9-7 - Sigma - 3.6L / Turbo V-6 - The 9-7 could be the luxury flagship for the brand. Built in Appropriate quantity to keep demand high and exclusivity in
  Next Gen Northstar V-8 mind, this car could carry the torch for SAAB and compete with larger Mercedes & Audis. Since this vehicle could be built along side the Cadillac STS, investment in tooling and engineering would be minimized. Since the chassis is already good, spend all the money on exterior design, innovative features and interior materials.
  __________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

  9-4x - EP II - 2.0T / 3.6 V-6 - See the show car from 2008 NAIAS. Bring it to the showrooms like it was on the stands! Loved the Interior!!
  __________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

  9-6x - Enhanced 3.6L / Turbo V-6- GMI suggests building the next SAAB crossover on the Lambda platform, which I disagree. Its too heavy, too slow
  Sigma - Next Gen Northstar V-8 and the driving dynamics do not fit with the SAAB brand. Enhance the Sigma platform further to widen it a bit, keep the driving characteristics of the SRX and pack it full of innovative features. SAABS need to become the design leaders within GM for int. and ext. designs & features.
  __________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

  Sonnet - Kappa - 1.8T & 2.0T- This would take SAAB back to its roots. Build a priced right (Convertible) small vehicle in the same vain as the original SAAB Sonnet. The Holden Torana would be a good option if XWD could be incorporated into the chassis design. Well styled, minimalist interior with outstanding driving dynamics would make this the best $30K (US) vehicle on the market!
  __________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

  Aero X - “Y” SPC Turbo V-6 / This is a no-brainer and an easy car to do. Most of the engineering has already been done on the XLR. The car is
  (Hard Top Convertible) Next Gen Northstar V-8 already competent, just give it to the SAAB (Sweden) engineers and let them do their thing! This could be the HALO car for the company and would slot just above the Mercedes CLK / BMW Z4 & just below the SLK. Closer to the BMW 6. Interior & exterior follow the AERO X Concept design language and nothing could compete! Slam Dunk!!!

• 46 Markac // Feb 11, 2008 at 2:10 pm

  Nice ideas Chris, but I think the Torana is more 9-3 size and RWD. Holden have said they would like to make a BMW 3 series sized car with 4 and 6 cylinder engines and that would be the Torana, if they are ever allowed to produce it?
  That doesn’t mean a shrunken Torana platform doesn’t have potential. A smaller RWD car on that chassis could be a competitor for the BMW 1 series, but I don’t SAAB will ever use RWD at least in it’s smaller models?
  I think we are stuck with the new Astra platform for the 9-1 and any Sonnet derivative.
  That could be a good thing, I just hope Saab are allowed to develope it sufficiently?

• 47 ck1x // Feb 11, 2008 at 2:25 pm

  Saab should definately offer XWD standard. That alone would ignite sells. If they are stating that XWD is unique to Saab then promote it. We really can’t bash GM to much, maybe they themselves didn’t know what direction to take without losing it’s inherent qualities that makes it unique, i’m just glad they haven’t given up on the brand. Saab can only benefit from all the publicity that the General is now receiving as of late and all it takes is one well delivered & represented car for people to take a serious look at the brand once again.The new CTS and Malibu are prime examples of this Saab just needs it’s own mantra. It can’t be just safety that many people don’t buy cars on that alone anymore. Whatever the direction it needs to be smart and fresh. We seem to have hit a bottle neck when it comes to the words luxury and premium. Almost all the manufacturers are offering higher standards of materials these days just look at “Hyundai”. Saab needs to think outside of the box of what premium features mean(WiFi, Bluetooth, climate control sensors, text & voice recognition commands, heated glass, GPS central pre emptive safety system. etc) and then make them standard in future saabs to come. I know some of that is like what the hell, but the technology does exist, people just don’t get creative enough to use it in an attractive way.

• 48 Richo // Feb 11, 2008 at 3:19 pm

  Saab 93 linear (129kw) – $44300 + onroads
  FWD
  5 star safety
  resale terrible
  no sat nav available bluetooth add $500
  3 year limited km warrantee
  Ordinary/terrible dealer and service network

  Subaru Liberty 2.5 (127kw) – $32490 drive away
  AWD
  5 star safety
  resale great
  Sat Nav + blue tooth
  3 year unlimited km warrantee
  Great dealer and service network

  Now…. apart from the fact I’ve been a Saab nut for 16 years, tell me why I wouldn’t go and sign a cheque for the Liberty?

  I know you can all tell I’m REALLY struggling with this, as I’m sure most of you would too… but there has to be a better reason than simple blind loyalty to Saab, doesn’t there?

  There is news coming as to why I’m asking too.

  And sorry for moving off the topic of the post

• 49 Richo // Feb 11, 2008 at 4:09 pm

  ps…

  “Mike S // Feb 11, 2008 at 12:27 pm

  Aside from that, I read your blog daily and think your the best marketing tool Saab has.”

  I agree, I’m also struggling because of my loyalty to you Swade!!!

• 50 Joe Lobo // Feb 11, 2008 at 5:17 pm

  Clearly if you are going to compare a Saab with a Jap brand then you are way off the mark here. Subarus are well built and good cars but they are at the bottom of the AWD spectrum that’s why their re-sale value is what it is as there is nothing else to compare it with in their bracket. Our Saabs have dozens of FWD cars to compete with regardless of their origins and that’s why their resale value is hammered so badly. Have you checked the A4 resale vaule ??? Go and have a look. I would not change the Viggen for a Subaru not even if its swaped as the interior is cheap and typical Jap car. You’ll be bored in no time. Give it to your Mrs when you get married but not for you mate !!! What’s gone in to your head ???

• 51 shawn // Feb 11, 2008 at 5:45 pm

  A huge hurdle for me continues to be the servicing network. A simple thing, at least in North America, that would go a *huge* way would be to make all GM Goodwrench shops certified for SAAB service including warranty work. I could care less where the dealerships are then!

  Sure, the car’s specs, features, marketing, brand all play in, but why have a road block like “but how the heck will I service the thing” stand in peoples way?

• 52 North Toronto Punter // Feb 11, 2008 at 6:29 pm

  I happened upon this site in the course of product research for a 9-3 6 months or so ago and got hooked: From early on an uncanny feeling of being among like-minded! I’m compelled to add my cents worth in the hope that voices gathered might herald change…not a dirge. Since I’m not a Saab owner (yet) I’ll limit myself to a few brand remarks.

  After 15 years of relative impecunity driving 2nd and 3rd-hand cars (mostly Japanese…Camry…dull/reliable) I’m finally in the position to afford (barely) something ‘aspirational’. In anticipation of a purchase/lease within 6 months I’ve begun to shop the usual suspects…M-B 300 (rwd/4matic)….BMW 323/8 (i,x ), A3,4… IS 250 even…And I’m smitten by the 9-3 re-skin and (promise of) Porsche-killing XWD underpinnings.

  Well, hailing from the wilds of North Toronto I wandered into a Mid-town dealership the other Saturday aft…and was underwhelmed. Clean and neat sure….but absolutely no sense of occasion: I was awash in a sea of Saturns! The Saabs seemed an afterthought. It’s not that I expect to purchase from a Scandinavian Super Model…or that the cars be housed in an architectural tour de force Ice Palace (actually,why not?)….but please…some inspirational surrounds. After all, Canadian M-B HQ is just round the corner, with its elegant, if severe, glass structure and the BMW digs are smartly styled nestled, ‘parkview’, barely a km away…

  Look, nobody wants an Empty Suit. But does it have to feel like I’m wandering the aisles of W-Mart when plunking down hard-earned coppers on goods that are hardly cheap? [BTW: The list on a C230 aint far off a vanilla wrapper 9-3...]

• 53 Chris // Feb 11, 2008 at 9:02 pm

  1) SAAB 9-4 interior in all 2009 models (the vents alone justify it).

  2) XWD, XWD, XWD – put out the message that SAAB is a mean, green fighting machine. And get the 2.0T XWD out ASAP!

  3) Never have a 5-speed again. Only 6 and better.

  4) Bring the diesel to North America – VW’s TDI has no reasonable opposition.

• 54 jev // Feb 11, 2008 at 9:46 pm

  I’ld say: back to SAAB’s roots!

  – a decent SAAB has 4 cylinders, runs on regular petrol and has a turbo. No diesel, no 6 cylinders, no E-86 or something like that. And please, re-introduce the typical SAAB-sound!
  – back to the original shapes. A SAAB is *not* a SUV or a sedan / saloon. Coupe, a coupe-lined hatchback, perhaps an estate and surely a good looking cabrio to complement things and that’s it. Get rid of that awful typical US-looking grill and (shrudders) those blacklined backlights.
  – keep that typical SAAB feeling in the cockpit. No silvery lines around those clocks or other tupperware please. And certainly get rid of that stupid GM display in the front (yaicks!). A SAAB cockpit is all business, no eyecandy. So, this => http://www.tranism.com/weblog/images/2006_9-3_inside.jpg is definitetly not SAAB, this is an Opel Vectra!

  Want something modern? Okay, XWD if it needs be, replace that oldfashioned folding roof in the cabrio by a metallic one and that’s it. It’s a SAAB, not a rebatched Opel/Chrysler/Suabaru/whatever.
  – Provide enough options to fit the car to the customer. SAAB is all about style, but there’s nothing so personal as “style”.

  Once that’s fixed up, go for high quality. Re-educate those dealernetworks and make the customer once again feel at home in his SAAB!

• 55 wilfried // Feb 11, 2008 at 10:40 pm

  And next to that DieselHybrid (see my wrongly posted comment in the 9-4X-interior-department) a Sonett-wise Raceabout would be welcome to join the current line-up.

  http://www.raceabout.fi/content/3_1.html

• 56 Chris // Feb 11, 2008 at 11:33 pm

  I completely understand JEV’s point of view about brand heritage, however we must keep in mind the ever changing landscape of the fickle buying public.

  Look at Austin Martin & now Jaguar- they were both about to go under (jury’s still out on Jag.) until they got a total make-over to compete in today’s market. And today’s market calls for eye candy in the interior. If not, people are not going to plunk down $45K (US) on a 9-5 when there are other more attractive, higher feature vehicles to choose from in that price range.

  SAAB needs new product and they need a complete vehicle line. The 10 year old – made over models are killing us.

• 57 jev // Feb 12, 2008 at 7:42 am

  @Chris: SAAB is a brand that treasures it’s history. Even though I agree that today’s markets asks for different things now than 40 years ago (hmm… than again, does it?), I don’t believe adding bells and whistles just for looks is a big thing in the rest of the world. SAAB needs a unique sellingpoint; the brand is too small to make just another anonymous gadget-loaded vehicle and get away with that.

  I position SAAB in a niche market. No mass products that are squeezed for the last penny, but something that makes you feel… well… special. Swedish styling, the perfect driving position, everything is where you expect it to be. So that you can enjoy the ride. That’s what turns a car into a SAAB… Once you’ve driven one, everything else will feel, well… euhm… ordinary.

  Yes, I agree, SAAB needs new products. But please, not yet another boring saloon. Now where exactly can I buy that AeroX?

• 58 SportMode // Feb 12, 2008 at 8:16 am

  Let’s analyze Wendy’s for a moment to illustrate the problem:

  Here in the US, Wendy’s cut costs to improve the bottom line. What did they cut? Food costs. Now their food tastes significantly worse. What effect might that have? Stock took a nose dive because sales were flat. The company made a profit from the cost-cutting, but the market knew better and dumped the stock anyway.

  Bottom line: Quit worrying about the quarterly dividend. Get back to the basics and make a better product, and your stock will go up.

  GM’s task: get back to the basics…

  1. Build reliable cars.
  2. Improve design and build quality.
  3. Increase safety.

  You must invest more money to do this- cost cutting is not an investment. Improving your product is.

  GM instead works on reducing costs because they’re hemorrhaging money. Try it, GM- I dare you.

• 59 1985 Gripen // Feb 12, 2008 at 9:17 am

  CWilson: Saturn in the U.S. has been a total failure from its original concept. It was supposed to be GM’s “import killer” brand. I guess they figured “if you can’t beat ‘em, join ‘em” so they’re becoming American Opel. Saturn is basically an outlet for GM to sell Opels in the U.S. without having to re-introduce Opel into the American market.

  That being said, it is disconcerting to me that most, if not all, of GM’s brands sold in America have a good new car right now. In Cadillac you’ve got their “Car of the Year” CTS, in Chevy you’ve got the Malibu, in Saturn you’ve got the Aura, in Pontiac you have the (Holden Commodore) G8 and I guess you could even count the Solstice (and the Sky for Saturn). In Buick you’ve got the Enclave and Lucerne. In HUMMER you’ve got the H3. What does Saab have? A refreshed 9-3? I know, it’s coming. It’s coming…

  On another note, Saab has an advantage/disadvantage of taking advantage of “economies of scale”. I just noticed today the window controls in my 2008 Chevy Impala are the same as in the Saab. Also both share the “bowtie” stereo. BMW doesn’t have to parts-share with a lower-cost brand. While this should be an advantage to Saab (cheaper to manufacture so larger profit margin) it annoys owners to no end that they’re paying for a “premium” car and getting a lot of the same parts as found in a Chevy.

  Saab Tart: while it’s great that interest in the brand will be renewed by the 9-4X and/or 9-1 concepts this year, it doesn’t change the fact that there won’t be new metal in the showrooms for sale until mid-2009. Saab doesn’t suffer from a lack of interest, it suffers from a lack of execution, IMHO. People were waiting on the TTiD far too long. Now they’re waiting on the Turbo-X far too long. Then they have to wait another year-and-a-half for the 9-4X and possibly several years for the 9-1. How patient do they think buyers are? While people are “oohing” and “ahhing” at the Saab concepts at auto shows they’re buying other brands’ cars. You know, there are still people waiting for the promised flying car and the DeLorean 2…

• 60 PGAero // Feb 12, 2008 at 10:17 am

  Here’s what I think:
  If Saab makes cars to compete with BMW, Audi, Lexus, Volvo, MB, Acura, VW, even Honda or Toyota, they have a long way to go. Plain and simple, on the new car market they do not compete very well. If they do, it’s on price.

  Saab used to make cars that had no direct competitors. If you bought a C900 and used it to it’s potential, there were ZERO other options. 9000 hatchback: same kinda deal. There really weren’t any cars that had ALL the versatility. People have never bought Saabs because the interior was superior, or the handling was the best in the world, or the car was so much better looking than the competition, they bought Saabs because they offered something that simply wasn’t offered at any other dealership.

  So, in the 80s and the first half of the 90s some one who wanted:
  Loads of cargo room
  Fast acceleration
  Good handling
  Great gas mileage
  Comfortable
  Nicely appointed
  Very safe
  Not a station wagon. (FYI, I like the SCs, but I realize not everyone does.)

  There was (seriously) one viable option. It was the C900 or 9000. Even today, there isn’t a car on the market that bests my 9000 Aero in all those categories. Any car that can keep up with it either gets terrible gas mileage or is tiny.

  So, if Saab wants to compete with other car makers, they need to make an amazingly strong case for themselves. Or, they need to make a car that is not like any other.

  That’s my opinion: Saab needs to make a car that cannot be cross-shopped with the other players’ cars. Plain and simple. (At least it is to me!)

  The trouble with that approach is that there aren’t enough people who would buy that car to make GM happy.

  ~P

• 61 No.9 // Feb 12, 2008 at 10:37 am

  PG Aero makes a good point. That is certainly how I felt about my 9000T and to a certain extent my 9-5 when I bought it in 2001. Even though it isn’t a hatchback or wagon, that trunk can swallow everything we need on a trip. As he points out himself though, building such unique cars does not make a good business case. Had they been reliable, perhaps Saab would have made it without having to go mainstream? Of course, producing unreliable and expensive mainstream cars is a sure way to obliteration.

• 62 1985 Gripen // Feb 12, 2008 at 11:29 am

  zippy: “Can anyone tell me why the 2008 9-3 has deadlocks that ‘clunk’ like my Ford Focus when the 2003 9-3 model got rid of that awful clunking noise? I noticed that after the drive in the 08 9-3 and that cheap sounding clunk shocked me!”

  I’m guessing that when in 2008 they went to the BLS-style doors and door handles they changed the locking mechanism to a less-expensive one? That’s just a guess.

  “There are two things any new Saab needs 1) a sloping profile (totally missing on the 9-4X), and 2) the ‘hockeystick’. I have said this before but Scandinavians should design Saab cars – they have some kind of ‘built in’ function defines form ethos that is not found anywhere else. Ergonomics, I love that word!”

  I’ll second that! What was the last Saab primarily designed by a Scandinavian? The OG9-3, I think.

• 63 Alex // Feb 13, 2008 at 2:07 pm

  Well for someone who complains Saab’s current state as much as I do, I think I should at least give you an idea of what I personally would do with the Saab brand if I somehow managed to swap places with Steve Shannon.

  The angle I’d push is “responsible performance”, but with the emphasis placed on the “performance” side of things. If Saab can’t compete with Audi, BMW, Lexus, and Volvo in in terms of interior quality and materials, then the next best thing Saab can do is take the Infiniti route and go for all-out performance and cutting-edge powertrain technology. Combine that with some eye-catching Scandanavian exterior and interior design that would make up for any materials deficiencies in the eyes of the buying public. A Saab should be a combination of unusual elements that come together to make a car unlike anything else on the market.

  First off, I’d do everything possible to get the direct injection ecotec 4′s and highfeature v6′s into Saabs as soon as possible. Saab wouldn’t just have an all-turbo lineup, but an all Direct injection lineup as well, and an all GDI lineup would do alot to give Saab some “environmentally friendly performance” street cred.

  The most important advantage that an all-DI lineup would give to Saab is that it would allow the brand to jump right into the German horsepower wars while retaining Saab’s awesome torque curves. It would also up the hp/liter numbers of the of the engines while boosting fuel economy as well. Finally, I’d eliminate the “biopower” models and make all Saab’s flex-fuel.

  To help further shore up the “responsible” side of “responsible performance”, I’d look to get the two-mode hybrid transmission that’s going to show up in the Vue into as many Saabs as possible, and go one step further than the two-mode hybrids from “lesser” brands like Chevy and Saturn by offering plug-in capabilities on all hybrid Saabs.

  As to diesels, they work well in Europe but dropping the two mode hybrid system into Saabs will be a much more cost-effective option for US models compared to adapting the TTiD mill to meet US emissions requirements.

  Personally I think that the only Saab awd systems that deserve the “xwd” moniker are the all-out xwd systems with the eLSD. Saab sells sporty cars, and so the eLSD should be standard on every “xwd” Saab that rolls off the assembly line. Play it up in advertisements and it will only lead to good things for the brand.

  So without further adieu, here’s my “ideal US lineup” for Saab that I posted in an earlier set of comments. Remember that in true Saab fashion, there are three regular trim levels, S, SE, and Aero. Above the Aero would slot a line of limited-run cars to compete with the M’s, S’s, and AMG’s of the world. As always, “t” signifies low pressure turbo while “T” means high pressure turbo.

  The 2.0 direct injection twinscroll engine should replace the 2.0T engine in the 9-3’s, maybe having the 2.0t make ~230-240 hp with the 2.0T making ~260-280. If Saab could justify it financially, throw in a 2.4 liter DI ecotec with a slightly gruntier 2.4t as an option for the larger models with a sportier 2.4T

  Throw the direct injection highfeature heads from the 3.6 in the CTS onto the highfeature 2.8 that saab has, and produce a 2.8t making ~270-300 hp with god’s own torque curve and a 2.8T making making 140 hp/liter. A ~350hp 3.6t would be an option for the 9-5 and 9-6x, with a 3.6T as well, making over 400 hp for any special-edition 9-5’s or production aero X’s.

  The 9-1 is the delta-based car that we’re all eagerly waiting to see.
  9-1 S: 2.0t
  9-1 SE: 2.0t, xwd optional
  9-1 Aero: 2.0T, xwd optional
  9-1 Turbo X/SPG/Viggen/whatever: ~300hp 2.0T or 2.4T, xwd standard

  The next-generation 9-3 would ride on the standard-sized EPII, with a double wishbone suspension at all four corners as has been hinted at by GM.
  9-3 S: 2.0t, xwd optional
  9-3x S: 2.0t or 2.4t, xwd standard
  9-3 SE: 2.0T, xwd optional
  9-3h: 2.0t, two-mode hybrid transmission, xwd optional
  9-3x SE: 2.0T or possibly the 2.8t, xwd standard
  9-3 Aero: 2.8t, xwd standard
  9-3 Turbo X/SPG/Viggen/whatever: 2.8T, xwd standard

  The upcoming 9-4x is based on the theta platform and is currently making it’s way around the autoshow circuit.
  9-4x s: 2.0t, xwd standard
  9-4x se: 2.0T, xwd standard
  9-4xh: 2.0t, two-mode hybrid transmission, xwd standard
  9-4x Aero, 2.8t, xwd standard

  The upcoming 9-5 will be a real make-or-break car for Saab. The rumor is that it will ride on a long wheelbase, wide version of the EPII platform with a double wishbone suspension setup all around. If these rumors are true, with the right engines this could be a huge car for Saab. Now Saab has toyed with the idea of a V8 for a while, and if GM comes up with a direct-injection northstar replacement then I could easily see a 9-5 V8 or 9-6x V8 available for the US market.
  9-5 s: 2.0T or 2.4t, xwd optional
  9-5 se: 2.8t, xwd standard
  9-5h: 2.4t or 2.8t, two-mode hybrid, xwd optional
  9-5 V8: 4.6i, xwd standard
  9-5 Aero: 3.6t, xwd standard
  9-5 Turbo X/SPG/Viggen/whatever: 3.6T, xwd standard

  The 9-6x would be a Lambda-based sporty crossover to go up against the X5 and Infiniti FX, this would be a pretty simple car for GM to put together and it would really help boost Saab sales in the US.
  9-6x S: 2.4t, xwd standard
  9-6x SE: 2.8t, xwd standard
  9-6xh: 2.4t or 2.8t, xwd standard
  9-6x V8: 4.6i, xwd standard
  9-6x Aero: 3.6t, xwd standard

  Now every truly competitive brand needs a halo car, and an EPII based production 3-door fastback/vert modeled on the Aero-X would work perfectly. Audi proved with the TT that you can build a perfectly good sports car on an FWD-based platform, and the production Aero X/Sonett IV would ride on a widened version of the 9-3′s version of EPII. The Alfa Romeo Brera and Spyder Q4′s would be a good fwd/awd benchmark for this car to beat.
  Aero X/Sonett IV S: 2.8T, xwd standard
  Aero X/Sonett IV Aero: 3.6t, xwd standard
  Aero X/Sonett IV Turbo X/SPG/Viggen/whatever: 3.6T, xwd standard

  Remember this is a US-only lineup, and that in Europe you’d have more engine options like the diesels (both I-4′s and V6′s). You’d also have an array of smaller DI ecotec variants such as 1.6t/T’s and 1.8t/T’s for the 9-1, 9-3, and 9-4x. More importantly remember that this can all be done with parts and platforms that GM has already developed and engineered. Give these cars the looks of the Aero X and the interior quality of the new CTS and there you have the recipe for a fixed Saab.

  So what do people think?

• 64 Markac // Feb 13, 2008 at 2:33 pm

  Hi Alex, you put a lot of work into that and a lot of research too I guess. I’d agree with most of what you propose, but the 9-6x designation still makes me shiver remembering that proposed Subaru thing! Whatever GM decides, it needs to go all out this time or bail out. No more half measures. But can it afford to? I guess only time will tell.

  “Performance, responsibly”.