The first Saab 9-1 sketch cometh
I’ll put this back up top as I’m still getting emails notifying me that it’s around (thanks, by the way, but it’s covered now). Also, some of Europe was retiring for the evening when I first posted it.
——
Thanks to the various people who emailed me about a sketch first appearing in Motor Trend and now doing the rounds. MT’s story is that the sketch was left on a table in a design studio where a bunch of journalists were getting schooled on the Chevy Volt. Did someone steal the sketch, or make a photocopy, or enlisted the services of a police sketch artist to redraw it, or is this just a creative backstory for a magazine getting their own person to make something up?
We’ll probably never know, but here’s the story and here’s the sketch:
I’m going to learn from the past and not get too excited until I see something that I’m confident has come from Saab. That link has not only the story but also a bigger version of the image. The image is signed, and I’m pretty sure that designers don’t sign their work (lest it be identified as genuine) so it looks like this is someone’s recollection of what they saw, if they actually saw it.
UPDATE: Motor Authority are covering it as well and state quite clearly that these are from a sketch artist, to whom the design has been described by one of the journos. Sort of like design by Chinese whispers….
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Well it has the old style grill, so I’m sure we can expect that not to be the same. Other than that, this sketch doesn’t really move me in one way or another.
charles i don’t agree with you on that
looks good though all the same…. makes an interesting prospect if that is it.
It’s a bit squarish but I guess that just the drawing, but good all the same
agree with Dan9-1
A little fun muscle car… looks attractive but not a potential 9-1 concept (to small)
I think for a Saab design…if you are going hatch…this does NOT cut it. From the B-pillar back this is not a Saab.
I don’t really see much Saab in that sketch.
The wheel arches and lower grille belong on a ford cosworth focus. The slant of the hood is similiar to the Honda Si Hatch (European). The back looks like a Mini. Even the headlights are similiar to a 2007 WRX (the alfa romeo inspired grille).
Looks like a Suzuki swift or Mini with the SAAB 93 front on it.
Those reports are so dodgy as is the pic.
At first glance I think it looks pretty nice. Not too much Saab in it, but hey, what would a 2-door compact vehicle look like with the Saab grill? Pretty much this.
But, wait, it looks VERY close to this:
http://www.aa1car.com/library/Scion_xA.jpg
yes the story is very dodgy, so i doubt that its the real 9-1, it should be bigger and less mini copyish
Who knows how close this is to the real thing, but things I notice (and that you should get right when you saw a geniune sketch of the 9-1) is that it has 3 doors and is pretty small. More like a Mini competitor than A3 or 1series. That would be bad news to me…
Maybe we’ve been thrown a red herring?
This is the sort of car I’d expect if the 9-1 was going to be based on the next Opel/Vauxhall Corsa platform, but we all know it’ll be based on the next Astra which will be larger than the current Astra. That sketch looks like a car smaller than the current MINI. The revised MINI has just grown a bit. A Saab 9-0.5 perhaps?
Pardon my MSPAINT skillz. Step back from your monitor to view this one.
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d196/Mag-X/9-1.jpg
Personally, and I stress personally, I am a little tired of all the negative comments on the recent Saab’s designs. Saab is entering new market segments with no history of design (ignore sonnet). I just don’t agree with the “it doesn’t look like a Saab” agrument anymore, especially if you want the product offerings to expand. If we want to brand to grow and be self-sufficient, doesn’t the brand need to appeal to a larger audience? This is something that Saab has not done well for the last 10-20 years.
Does a Audi TT look like an Audi A8? Does a Porsche Cayenne look like a 911?
Let’s be happy we have gotten to additional models to talk about.
Matt - Sketches allow for more creative freedom and don’t typically follow existing cars. Based on all the design cues that I have identified, this sketch has no Saab in it (aside from the grille and the badge). I wasn’t using it as a means to bash Saab but to cast doubt that the sketch is legit.
In regards to the new road Saab is taking, I personally love the 9-4X.
Matt - You are trying to defend a sketch that most likely bears no relation to the real 9-1?
Please wait to you see the real one!
As to trying to make the brand “appeal to a larger audience”, Saab has tried that with the current 9-3 and it has been arguably less sucessful than the OG 9-3/ GM900. Buyers look to Saab for something a little different, something outside the square. Maybe that concept is just beginning to sink in to GM? Well at least I hope so!
Actually, it’s not bad at all, and it’s just a sketch.
Seems to be a good competitor for MINI or Volvo C30.
This small class car is totally a new territory for Saab, so we can not expect something similar to C900.
However, the retro is still fashionable (look the Mini, the Fiat 500, the Citroen C3, etc.)
My idea: why Saab don’t try to apply the style of UrSaab or 93 or 96 on the 9-1?
About the sign underneath the front bumper of the scetch: it looks like the one from mark stehrenberger. He is making drawings, and very good ones, contributing since years for the german magazine Auto Motor & Sport, so no inside saab-gm drawing, if you ask me.
Swade scepticism seems correct.
http://www.stehrenbergerdesign.com/
Of the all the 9-1 sketches I have seen, this looks the most resolved. Love the fender flares.
I like it.
wilfried: I think you are correct. If you look at the larger picture here: http://www.motortrend.com/future/future_vehicles/112_0804_gm_mini_fighter/photo_01.html you can read ’stehrenberger’. I said it was a red herring!
I like the design even if it doesn’t look anything like production version.While some aspects of the design look like Scion,Cooper,Etc; i like the flaring wheel wells and how the flaring is stretched to the door. also like how the car sits high back slanted forward and the thinner ‘hockey stick’.like the way the ground effects are but would like gun metal or a dark gray trim.
I think the roof could use some work.but if this has any hint to future small Saabs its a good start.
I quite like it and yes it does look a bit like a Mini with a Saab front. Mag-X’s ’saabification’ of the side make it look even better. I do, however, have my doubts that this is nothing like the real deal. Remember those 9-4X shots that actually looked better than the real deal?
The car in the drawing looks too small. The length of a current Astra coupe is 4290mm.
Width is 2035mm. I’m guessing, but on the new Astra platform I’d say the 9-1 will be about 4400mm long and about 2050mm wide. This makes it smallish but not really small. It’s probably no coincidence, but the Astra is one of the best selling cars in the UK/Europe. An upmarket derivative stands a very real chance.
Any other guesses on the size?
If you had to go by the drawing, I’d say the car was based on this: http://www.worldcarfans.com/6060223.001/mini20/new-opel-corsa-spy-photos the Saturn/Opel/Vauxhall Corsa replacement. Perhaps we’ll get a Saab that sized too? But I don’t think one is scheduled at the moment.
I am not trying to defend any specific sketch but rather the talk that these sketches of completely new models do not look like Saabs. That is such a bland statement. These are NEW models and thus will not be like anything they have done.
the front lights remind me of the 07 imprezza… and the front grill reminds me of a chevy cobalt ss… all in the NA market that is…
a little more hockey-stick action and we’re good
I thought of something, looking at that…remember those three tiny Chevy concepts, the Beat, Trax, and Groove? I remember the winner of their contest vaguely resembled that sketch…maybe that’s where it came from. Scary thought, maybe the 9-1 will be a rebadged Beat (or whatever the name was). I hope not. I know it will most likely share a platform with any new GM subcompact, but I really hope it’s unique enough to throw off the auto journos, because you know that’s the first and last thing they’ll say in all their reviews. We’ll either get “It’s just a reskinned Chevy Groobeatrax with a turbo,” which would be bad, or “You’d be hard pressed to tell that this new Saab is a Chevy Groobeatrax underneath it’s skin,” which would still be bad, but it would be better than the former.
Jeff: the 9-1 cannot be a rebadge of any sort. With the €500M to €600M per-car for R&D Saab is allegedly getting from GM it’s got to be a ground-up affair. Another round of badge engineering would kill Saab. The 9-2X and 9-7X were never intended as anything more than just stop-gap measures to allow Saab to be a player in those segments until they get their own indigenous design out there.
The 9-4X CUV will replace the 9-7X SUV and the 9-1 will replace the 9-2X, with some years missing in-between, obviously.
I’m guessing the Beat, Trax, or Groove would be built on GM’s Daewoo-designed sub-compact front-wheel-drive Gamma II platform, whereas the 9-1 is supposed to be built on the Opel-designed compact front-wheel-drive Delta II platform.
I can’t stress enough how much the 9-1 has to “hit a home run”. Some of us were excited about the 9-4X, some of us were underwhelmed, and some of us hated it. But that’s okay, because they aren’t targeting the average Saab aficionado with that vehicle. I think ALL of us are considering buying a 9-1 if it turns out to be everything we’ve been waiting for from Saab since the early 90s: the true successor to the 99/900 line.
I agree with Matt… As soon something don’t share stuff with an old 900 it “has no Saab in it”. Well, surprise, the 9000 had no “Saab” in it when came but today we think of it as “Saab”. You all want more models to attract more customers, but somehow everything has to look the same…
I always forget that the 9-3 is midsize and not compact, which is why I thought the 9-1 would be considered subcompact. Silly me.
That sketch looked a lot like one of those concepts, though.
1985 Gripen: I agree with you totally. The new 9-1 could be Saab’s most important release since the C900. Many of us are hoping that we’ll finally get a car that can replace a 99, C900, GM 900 or OG9-3. It could end up being a fraction smaller, but that’s not a problem as far as I’m concerned as long as it can be used in a similar fashion to those old cars. Something that’s just a show pony for trendy styling and is fuctionally poor is just not on. There’s nothing wrong with ‘retro’ styling if done properly. The MiNI and the VW Beetle are two good examples. The new car needs to have enough styling cues to be instantly recognised as a Saab and not some generic GM product.
I think the new 9-5 will be almost as important, especailly in the US. I hope the new 9-5 wagon is of the Sport Combi variety. This will partly placate those who miss the 9000 hatchback.
Anyway buyer reaction to the 9-1 and the new 9-5 will have a direct bearing on which variants we will see the next 9-3 come in. If the 9-1 hatch is a success, we may even get 9-3 hatchs instead of Sport Combis?
One of the larger newspapers in Sweden now show this sketch:
http://www.dn.se/DNet/jsp/polopoly.jsp?d=1064&a=742691&rss=1400
They say that it could be shown in London this summer…
ctm: Mark Stehrenberger even gets a credit on that one, but I still don’t believe it. The car’s too small to be an Astra platform derivative. Got a feeling GM has started all this to get everyone off track! You’d think a Swedish newspaper would at least get the Geneva bit right!
They won’t be wrong saying it’ll show in London, as long as they don’t say it’ll show in London first.
I wonder if it’ll do the rounds of the bigger motor shows and make it to Sydney? Not that that really helps, I’m in Adelaide!
You don’t even need to see the signature to know that is a drawing from Mark Stehrenberger. His style is obvious for anyone who’s read European motor magazines the last 20 years.
His drawings are nice to look at, but seldom very accurate. Make a Google picture search on an existing car and his name, and you’ll see what I mean.
Here is his Saab SUV:
http://images.motortrend.com/future/spied_vehicles/112_0306_sketch_l.jpg
bring it.
after taking delivery on an ‘08, 9-3 yesterday and being stunned by its beauty, i’m not sure anymore what a saab is supposed to look like. so to that extent, i must concur with matt’s and ctm’s comments.
as long as a saab looks interesting, i’ll take it.
I didn’t read the other comments (no time), but I agree that the sketch is positive. I hope that the technology and performance are top-notch. They need to be.
I’m surprised nobody else has brought this up yet: despite being extremely suspicious that a drawing was left in a room of journalists viewing Chevy Volt progress (how incompetent can one be?), why would a Saab design drawing be in the GM Technical Center in Warren, Michigan anyway?
If this is an intentional “leak” or a red-herring to throw journalists off the 9-1 trail, then it seems odd that they’d do it to American journalists who don’t seem to give a damn about Saab in most cases anyway. Wouldn’t you leak something to Aftenbladet or Auto Motor & Sport or something in Sweden?
If this is unintentional it worries me that any Saab design (particularly exterior design) is being done in Michigan. We heard rumors that the exterior of the 9-4X was actually done in the U.S. (and it looks it!) despite Saab’s claims it was done at GM Europe (Russelsheim, Germany) and “themed” by Saab Brand Center employees from Sweden. Then we later heard Saab only designed the windshield forward and Cadillac (U.S.) designed the rest, with the Saab Brand Center finishing off the job with “theming” (as you can tell I hate this whole concept. Reminds me of how Disneyland approximates the Matterhorn poorly but the masses don’t know because they don’t know what the real Matterhorn is like anyway).
Will the 9-1 have its exterior design done in a U.S. studio only to later be “themed” in Europe?
Heck, why don’t they simply design Saabs in Michigan, send the drawings to Sweden for “theming”, then produce the cars in Mexico on the cheap? Seems like the Swedish in the cars is all “theming” anyway. Yes, I’m bitter.
Well, I just read AutoblogGreen’s coverage of the story and what they say happened is that while touring the Chevy Volt design studio one of the journalists saw a drawing of a small MINI-sized car and they set Motor Trend’s artist to work drawing what a small Saab would look like.
So it appears the drawing they saw was not a Saab and they’re just speculating what a small Saab would look like. They could have seen a drawing for one of the Chevy concepts Jeff mentioned above in comments.
Why did they choose to draw it as a Saab? Probably because that’s the only new small car they expect GM to be coming out with soon (due to the Geneva announcement).
So basically the drawing has NOTHING to do with Saab. This is just a stupid speculative exercise. Sorry to freak-out, but the whole “where was the 9-4 REALLY designed?” thing has me a bit freaked-out about upcoming Saab designs.
I agree the 9-1 is going to be a very important model for Saab, and for all of us die-hard Saab fans who have been waiting for a 3-door replacement for our C900’s or 9-3’s. I’m not sure what to make of that sketch, but is it just me or does every compact 3-door car these days have the profile and proportions of a Volkswagen Golf/GTI??
Sorry, this is a MINI. I already own one of these. If they’re aiming for MINI, they need to take a page out of Volvo’s playbook, and ignore the rest. The C30 is too expensive, not configurable enough and not nearly as much fun as the MINI. Also, fuel economy isn’t good due to the T5 they stuck in that little guy. It’s a looker, but not much else. Saab needs a small car to fight the GTI if anything.
b. nystedt: I don’t know why the C30 doesn’t appear to be selling in the U.S. (I don’t have sales numbers, but anecdotal evidence, such as the fact that I’ve only ever seen two on the road in over-populated L.A.), but I can tell you why I wouldn’t be interested: it’s a small two door hatch. You can’t put a whole heck of a lot of cargo in it despite the hatch. The trunk is stupidly small for a car whose hatchback is the primary selling point. The interior has that “floating” center console which looks pretty cool, but is about as functional as t*ts on a bull.
The C30 will not fail because it’s a hatchback. It’ll fail because the hatch is its primary selling point and is poorly executed. I’d like to see a Saab where the hatch is just another great feature on a great car, not the sole purpose for the car.
Sadly, Saab is looking at C30 sales to see if the world is ready for another combi-coupé.
I have to agree with Gripen on most of the stuff.
This sketch looked ok to start off with, but then the more you look at it the less I like it. It looks like a American take on what a Saab might look like, and to be honest thats all wrong. It should be Saab and Saab only from the start and thats why I think the 9-4X will not be that much of a hit in the UK, because it seems a bit too big and clunky and american and dare I say it bland. It looks like its been design by a focus group of people who’ve said what they see in a Saab and then put into one car. Thinking Aero-X front and hockey stick rear doesn’t make it a Saab. Just slapping the Aero style on the front won’t make the rest of the car look sexy and swedish, Saab need to do it all in house in Europe with SAAB designers, not CADILLAC ones across the pond. (not that I have anything against Cadillac, I like the style of the CTS but its still nowhere near what we’d like)
If this is whats happening with the designs then I think we should be worried for whats going to happen in the future, hopefully they will realise that this isn’t what should happen before its too late.
I would really like to be a Saab designer, and seeing that I’m only 17 then I would like to think that it will happen, but my brand loyalty to Saab is slightly under threat by what we could see in the future. Hopefully if I get that far then I would hope that I could change it…
I’m not saying that Saab designs won’t be a hit, they just need to move on a bit and feel more saab-like
Gripen - Thanks for the link to the article.
After reading that, I am quite relieved to know that the sketch has no Saab in it and I am really looking forward to the 9-1 concept!
I’ve said this before and I’m going to keep saying it in the hope that someone from Saab or GM will take notice (I’m sure). The classic 900 3-door should be the design inspiration for the upcoming 9-1. There are many reasons for this, and those of us who’ve owned classic 900’s can recall some of the cars most appealing and unique attributes. The 900 was and still is very different from common cars, but not just for the sake of being different. Saab always had a damn good reason for every design and engineering element. It was a relatively compact car (outside), with a very roomy interior. First time passengers always expressed amazement at the interior volume and high level of comfort. Excellent utilization of interior space and the convex windshield design contributed to this result. The luggage compartment was also surprisingly huge. Folding the rear seat enabled you to expand the “trunk” to accommodate objects as large as a full-size clothes dryer or washing machine (I’ve done it). With the back seat down, the floor of the compartment was completely flat from the rear bumper all the way to the seat backrests, which made it quite easy to load and unload cargo (even my current 9-3 hatch does not have this feature). There were other unique touches like recessed door sills, which made getting in and out of the cabin easier, and also prevented you from smearing road grime on the back of your pants. There were integrated brackets for the car jack at all four corners, which made it impossible for the jack to “fold” over while changing a tire. The “clamshell” hood was designed to open forward, and had extremely heavy-duty clasps at the rear to prevent the hood from separating passengers from their heads in the event of a severe impact. The overall integrity and build quality was outstanding, and the 900 was one of the safest cars on the planet at any price. In 1988, my Saab mechanic had an ‘87 900 turbo on his lot which had been involved in a severe accident. Police said the Saab had been traveling at approximately 60MPH when the drunk driver of a Pontiac Firebird crossed the line and hit the Saab head on, traveling at about 80MPH. The Pontiac driver did not survive, but the 900 driver (a fellow customer) walked away with nothing more than a few lacerations from flying glass. I examined the 900 turbo myself, and the grill of the car had been pushed all the way up to the a-pillars. The hood was folded like an accordion and the rear latches had prevented it from entering the cabin. The bulkhead was intact, and the engine had been pushed under the car per Saab’s design. The passenger cabin was completely intact, and both front doors still opened and closed! I’m quite sure that man would have been killed had he been driving a lesser car. The 900 was a blast to drive in good weather, and could take any winter storm in stride. The “road feel”, driving position and cornering abilities were exceptional, and the 16 valve turbo engine was smooth revving and produced the most musical tones. And best of all, everything came wrapped in a beautiful and totally unique body style. I could go on, but the point I’m trying to make is that the 900 represents Saab at its best. Many of its design concepts are beyond the competition of TODAY, and I think they’re worth revisiting.
b. nystedt…The C30 isn’t configurable enough? That isnt true…you can literrarly get that car 5 million different ways…custom build feature, colors, options, etc.
The problem the C30 has is POOR AKA NO MARKETING (sound familiar?)
The 9-1 needs to be awesome…Saab needs to go ARAP .As Retro As Possible
MarkS: very well put. However, next time would you please format-in some breaks!?!?
Dan: the problem with the “retro” look is that is looks dated VERY quickly. I think Saab wants to move FORWARD design-wise, not backward. We all love the 99 and 900 and this should be the spiritual descendant of those cars, but I don’t think it should have a 99/900 “theme”. A return to some of the features of those cars which has since been lost will be more than welcome, though, as MarkS detailed above!
I can only pray that this is not the new 9-1 (Too square) or a 9.05.
If SAAB wants to be player among the Audi’s & BMW’s of the world, I dont think they should go further down market than a 9-1.
Leave the “Mini” fighting up to Saturn & dedicate the cash to development & marketing.
Chris: I agree, but it might make a reasonable 9-0.5 if Saab want to use the Opel Corsa platform? I think we need to see how it goes with the new Astra plaform first. As I’ve said before, I’m guessing approx 4400mm long and 2050mm wide.
I don’t think you can have the space utilization of a 99/C900 with out a basically similar shape.
ie: a coupe/hatch. You can do it with a 9X shape, but that precludes a five door really and I’m sure Saab will want 3 and 5 door models.
Anyway the Mini is retro and doesn’t seem to have dated.
Markac: here - here!
My concern is that the General is going to cheapen the Saab brand by taking too far down market. Then when the new, more expensive models come out no one will take them serious as a premium brand (read VW Pheaton).
Chris: You’re right, I don’t think it’s really time for a very small cheap Saab, but the 9-5 will move to a bigger model and likely more upmarket too. The same thing will happen to the 9-3 when it’s replaced, it will probably end up being closer to the current 9-5 in size. This leaves a void at the entry model level.
Just another hatch like an Astra or a Golf or an Audi A3 won’t work here. I think Saab needs to look back to the 99 Combi Coupe or perhaps even the 98 concept for inspiration. There are a lot of disgruntled buyers who never took to the 9-3SS and won’t want an even bigger version when it comes, and a lot of us miss the hatches too. That’s where the target for the 9-1 has to be.
Volvo in some ways tried to go back to the 1800ES with the C30, but space utilization is quite poor. This whole thing can be done much better as Saab has shown with the 9X and to a lesser extent with 9-3X. But if the 9-1 just ends up like a scaled down Aero-X shape merged into an Astra hatch with eronomics and practicality thrown out of the window, then it will fail. I think Saab needs a new 99 level model, but as you say going lower than that will just cheapen the brand. I think there will be a place for an even smaller Saab eventually, but that time is still some years away.