Many of you would know of a mate of mine in Sydney by the name of Richo. He’s posted a question in comments that I think I’ll bring to the front page here so that it can have a thread of it’s own.
i have a question..
Why would you buy a Saab over a Subaru Liberty?
I’m interested to hear opinions.
…..and this is followed with a quick summary:
Saab 93 linear (129kw) – $44300 + onroads
FWD
5 star safety
resale terrible
no sat nav available bluetoothadd $500now standard in Oz.
3 year limited km warrantee
Ordinary/terrible dealer and service networkSubaru Liberty 2.5 (127kw) – $32490 drive away
AWD
5 star safety
resale great
Sat Nav + blue tooth
3 year unlimited km warrantee
Great dealer and service networkNow…. apart from the fact I’ve been a Saab nut for 16 years, tell me why I wouldn’t go and sign a cheque for the Liberty?
I know you can all tell I’m REALLY struggling with this, as I’m sure most of you would too… but there has to be a better reason than simple blind loyalty to Saab, doesn’t there?
——
So I’ll chime in with my 0.02c worth seeing you’re asking, cobber.
1. The price is compelling, but I imagine you’d need to do a full features comparison to put it into perspective. For example, while they have similar power figures, the Saab has 40 or so more torques. But nevertheless, lets call it advantage Subaru.
2. FWD vs AWD is a matter of personal choice, but if you’d find AWD to be a need, then fair enough.
3. Safety is a 5-all draw.
4. Resale’s definitely an issue, advantage Subaru.
5. Satnav’s for sissies that can’t read maps and you can Bluetooth the Saab pretty quickly Bluetooth is standard on all Saabs in Oz in 2008 (thanks, Hawkeye!). If you really need satnav then get a TomTom and put the groovy Saab flash on it 
. OK, I’m kidding. If you need nav, you need nav.
6. You mention the limited km warranty on the Saab like it’s a disadvantage. It’s a three year 100,000 km warranty and whilst that’s not unlimited, may I remind you that you’ve had your Viggen for how long? and done how many km?
7. The comparisons between dealer and service networks are possibly the product of your experience. There’s good and bad apples in every box but I’ll admit that Saab’s apples aren’t quite the quality of Tasmanian apples, shall we say. My own experience with Suuby customer service is mixed. When I complained about one of their ads, they offered me a test drive for a week, but it’s all words and no action right now as the car hasn’t materialised.
Something that you haven’t addressed in your summary but that we’ve spoken about by phone is the fact that I genuinely believe you’re likely to be sitting in your Subaru Liberty, probably some time in April, and you’ll look around at your rather plain surroundings and the feel the lack of turbo under your foot and you’ll start thinking to yourself “why the heck did I buy this? I’m bored witless”.
Also, compare those seats.
I think if you’re going to go the Subaru route , or any other route, you’d be far better off buying something with a bit more character, like a Rex, a Type R Civic. But that’s just me. I just can’t see you in a ‘regular’ car.
——
All of this has come about because Richo’s got Viggen problems. They’re serious and as you can see, in terms of his relationship with Saab, they may be terminal. It’s got him – and quite rightly so, I might add – quite riled up.
More on those later. For now, hit the comments button and let your Subaru knowledge fly.
I don’t understand why anybody buys AWD on a low or moderately powered car unless they drive a lot in deep snow. In Montreal we have had over 200 cm of snow this winter and there’s a small mountain in the middle of the city. In 40+ years of driving I’ve never been stuck in a FWD car (one of ours is an 07 9-5), especially with winter tires (or tyres!). Unless the Subaru is a turbo or V6 (and watch the price advantage shrink) it will feel slower, and AWD uses extra gas just to get going. The Subaru is a very fine car, but not a fun car. Bottom line: Test drive them back to back and report back please. Also, if you have adult friends you drive with, be sure they try out the rear seats.
Anyone can attain a 5 star safety rating nowadays, the problem is that many cars are built to perferm well in the tests. Saab’s real life safty investigations and extra (not legally required but made specially at Saab) crash tests would make me chose the Saab if safety is a scale tipper.
Richo,
It depends, what is your future goal and the key points.
Actually, Subaru is a great car to drive, has nice boxer sound, the steering and suspension with AWD is better then Saab’s FWD.
However, for my personal taste, Subaru is not a very stylish car, it’s ok, it has something unusual design, but that’s all.
And the interior too. It doesn’t seem so relaxing and familiar.
The resale is also not a big issue for me, and so the dealership.
In Hungary I never use the official dealership or service network, because the independent Saab services work better and cheaper.
Did you drive both? Because it’s the most important. Which one feels more enjoyable, more safe, more relaxing, and so on…
If I would choose by mind, no doubt that the Subaru is the right one. But how much I would love it?
If I listen to my heart, I would choose the Saab, because if I have to drive a car every day and spend at least 1 hour inside I would feel uncomfortable if it doesn’t match to my taste, even it has some technical and financial advantages.
Just the brand image (if its anything like it is in the US) and styling would be enough to turn me away.
The seats, the seats, the seats…
If you’re going to be in them for any length of time there is no comparison. I’ve owned 4 Saabs, and 1 Subaru Legacy GT.
I sold the Legacy after 12,000 miles and an aching back, from a 50 mile daily commute. I tried everything I could think of to aleviate the very poor lumbar support, but to no avail.
“Google” Subaru seats and see what comes up…
Interesting question, which I asked myself two and a half years ago. Then we were comparing a new 2004 9-5 Aero SW with a new 2005 Subaru Legacy (Liberty) XT. The Aero won – of course…
In the Saab we liked:
1. the quality of the interior – materials and ergonomics and level of appointment;
2. fuel economy – can’t remember the exact numbers, but the Saab was considerably better
3. the interior space – my wife hated the “small” size of the Subaru
4. the style – the 9-5 looks so much better
5. the price – negotiated to $30.5k compared to the $33.5K for the Subaru
The Subaru’s AWD was an advantage on one hand because we were living in Lake Tahoe at the time, but when it comes time to replace a damaged tire it means all four need replacement. We recently suffered that pain with our Volvo XC70. We never used the Saab in the snow, but with the right tires it would have been fine.
Power and torque was near identical, though the Saab felt faster.
I definitely do not lament having bought the 9-5. It suits my needs perfectly and is a rare sight on the roads in the San Francisco Bay Area. A Subaru WRX STI had been on the shopping list for sometime. Family realities forced the consideration of the Legacy XT, but when it came down to it, the Saab was so much better.
Oh, there is one more story.
One of our club members is also a Saab nut, of course.
However, once he sold his Saab and bought a Subaru Impreza WRX. He drove it for half a year, than he bought a new Saab 9-5 Aero again. He kept the Subaru just for some weekend fun drive, but for daily traffic he drives the Saab.
The brain says Subaru, heart cries Saab.
riku1100s – you hit the nail on the head.
Before too many people start comparing overseas prices, here in Oz the Linear 93 (base model) is 12-15k more than the Liberty 2.5. Features are similar apart from heated seats and dual zone air con, but then the Saab doesn’t come with Nav or Bluetooth, nor a DVD player (not that a DVD player is necessary however it’s still there.
The comfort argument could be made against any other car on the market but when the car underneath the seat is less reliable and depreciates faster than Ostridge farm it becomes less comfortable quite quickly.
I totally agree the styling of the Subbie is not on the level of the Saab, but the materials and build quality are a class above, and the Subbie is still 12-15k cheaper.
Here in Oz insurance on the the Saab is $1900, compared with $1000 on the Liberty.
I’ve been for a longish test drive, and it’s been raining here in Sydney for the last month… i couldn’t get the Subbie to lose traction, roll, sway or feel in any way unstable (admittedly I wasn’t keen about paying the 1k excess should i crash it), the thing just stuck to the road like glue. Potholes were absorbed without a hint of body shake, the ride was gorgeous and the engine, while certainly lacking any sort of kick, was smooth and willing. Some might argue isn’t not powerful enough to get in to trouble but remember I’m comparing it to the 93 Linear, same power.
I’ll be stepping out of a BSR Stage 1 Viggen with about 280Hp – 205Kw, so I know what I’ll be missing when the foot goes to the floor. The thing I’ll really miss is the country overtaking ability… but how many times do I do that anyway? And of course the ability to nail just about anything else on the road
Fuel economy if I can compare it to a 2006 93 convertible is much the same, about 11l/100km city driving, in fact the 93 is a little more.
Rogan – the brand image in Oz is quiet the opposite, Subaru have the (large) edge over Saab.
If i was in the market for a 60k+ vehicle I wouldn’t be looking at the Subbie, but for 32k…. i’m still trying to work out why you’d not buy it.
As a side note, at this point i only intend to have the car for 3 years, so like most people resale and the ability to sell is important.
And yes, the big issue is taste, but at what cost? How much and for how long can you swallow the short comings of a car that feels part of your soul. How much disappointment are you willing to bare?
mmmm, big question.
With the price difference between the Subaru and the Saab, you could go for the 3 litre Subaru (if it’s available in Australia?) which might mean less of a performance drop? I still think you’d be missing something after driving a Viggen though!
riku1100s line reminds me of an old TV commercial in Australia (Toyota I think) – “When your heart says Europe but your head says Japan”. You could still end up with some heartache though!
Richo – we ended up with a Honda Civic VXi (1799cc) over the base Subaru Legacy 2.0 R – which was gutless irrespective of the AWD – which the Mrs. did not need in her daily commute. The Honda was 200K and the Subaru 222K. The Honda promised her the performance of a 2.0 engine with the fuel economy of a 1500cc (gas being on the steep side this end – 1 liter = R7.36 (South African rand that is). My wifes travels 3x a month from the remote mining village we stay to the capital city, a distance of +_900km one way. The ability to nail anything on the road, the comfortable seats without breaking your back will be sorely missed, but since she is awaiting the release of the facelifted 9-3 Sport Sedan 2.0T Vector during 2008 in South Africa and the purchase decision somewhere in the 3rd quarter of 2008, she could not wait and plunged headlong into the Honda Civic VXi (we had a 1600cc MY97 VTEC before). The major consideration was the ease to sell the darn thing when the Saab becomes available. In fact, in discussions with the Saab dealership in town the trade-in was discussed and the indication was, a Honda, no hiccups mate. Bring it any time. Oh, and before I forget, no, the MY01 9-5 Aero is still here.
Full Bluetooth Phone Integration System (TEL 4) is now standard across the entire Saab range which was a $1000 option on the 2007 model.
This will allow you to answer your phone on the steering wheel and see your phone numbers on the dash. Not to mention, if the car thinks you are busy (heavy braking, etc)
the phone will not ring! Now that’s a safety feature.
Saab have also raised there anti-corrosion warranty from 6 years to 10 years, just the thing for Sydney seaside living!
question… how can a stage 1 tune take you 50hp over what stock is? Most stage 1 tunes are just software only, and maybe open filter? I would have thought a stage 1 tune would get you an extra 10 to 20 hp at most? Not looking to be offensive or having a dig here but just wanted a clarification!
I would have thought you would have to be at Stage 2+ to go an extra 40 to 50hp over stock?
What HW mods do you have too?
Still… Richo you have an awesome ride… you can’t sell it! And no i wouldnt choose a Subaru over a Saab ever… they are worse than BMWs
Sab, the BSR tune for the Viggen (which Richo’s got) gets you around 44hp extra, as well as around 70Nm in torque. Bang for the buck. He’s also got an air filter as well and the steering rack brace I bought back from Sweden.
my 0.02¢.
In the last two weeks I have been in the Saab and Subaru dealerships in Toronto.
Inside, no question that Saab takes it: Hands down. There simply isn’t the interior space in a Subaru. I’m 6’4″ and can’t sit in the front seat of the Legacy (your Liberty) – forget the backseat. Fit and finish = Saab.
Now, I love AWD. I live in an area that constantly has road closures due to drifting snow. Right now it’s -18°C and -32°C with the wind chill. AWD plays a part in getting home safely but I simply can’t see that as an issue for you in Australia.
Lastly, you must consider SOUL. I have a Honda Civic for getting to work (an AWD SUV for the real snowy days). The Honda has no soul. It’s boring and boring. It won car of the year here and has a great resale value. I hate it. When you buy based upon a spreadsheet and what is the “best fit” you will hate it (or at least I have).
If you enjoy driving, learn from my mistake and buy what feels right – Not what looks good on a spreadsheet.
I love Saab, but sorry, on this one I choose Subaru…
thanks for the clarification there Swadey (g’day too BTW!)… i’d still be sceptical that the BSR kit could show such a massive increase (as just using SW mods) without doing supporting HW mods too? I see the stage 2 on BSR site lists the same output? Pretty confusing!
Has Richo had it on a dyno at all to compare? I am just very interested in the BSR stuff as I have had little exposure to it… nice to learn about all the tuners!
Just gone Stage 4 in my 2002 9-3 Aero (290hp and 400nm or so)… will do another dyno run when it gets cooler!
sab
It seems as if you are sold on the Subaru. The next step is to really find out the cost of the two cars. I am assuming that you have quoted the official Recommended Retail Prices here. We have a local dealer who has taken €9,000 off one of their Saab’s to make it more attractive. It could well be that your local Saab dealer maybe able to offer you a very favourable price on a new or nearly new 9-3 too. Something that Subaru may not entertain. I guess you have been a long standing Saab customer and when faced with a similar situation, I know I do everything in my power to keep my loyal customers on-board. You should sit down with your salesmanager and have a very long and frank conversation about your future form of transport.
Interesting topic and comments, as
SAAB-drivers seem not to dislike the subaru.
Is it the position of the underdog that makes both intersting and preferable above the Krautwagons ?
I can only repeat as stated before in the ‘if we were the General’s generals’ topic, and with their announcement of a boxer-diesel, the subaru gets even some more attractiveness for me.
If you just compare the figures; does GM/SAAB charges to much for the package ?
The choice between both is difficult, best advice is, like Ivan (MuzX) says, test drive them both.
It is like trying to fit good shoes, so it is a personal question as much as it is one of rational figures (for those interested, at the moment I’m wearing ‘car shoes’ while writing behind the office desk and some ‘campers’ are wearing just fine – if cars weren’t that expensive i would change them as often as my shoes).
and… if Richo sells his excellent Viggen, you should buy it Swadey!
No need to tell the trouble and strife! Just imagine… having two of the beasts! 
oh – always loved that HDR photo of Richo’s Viggen… sweet car!
sab
Sab,
My Viggen has a Nordic Custom Stage1 software, and software only.
It’s 270 HP and 420 Nm now with a very smooth characteristic.
The B235R engine and the Trionic7 is a great system with lot of extra power abilities.
If I was after a reliable car that wasn’t going to cost me a lot of money to maintain, I’d go with the Subaru. Residual value is also better. Parts availability and cost of parts probably on par with Saab.
$7000 for the Viggen as is, first and final offer! ;o)
DB
Chris H. wrote: “Power and torque was near identical, though the Saab felt faster.” when comparing an ’04 9-5 and an ’05 Subaru Legacy XT.
I’m guessing this is a weight issue. The AWD system will make the Subaru weigh more, likely, than the Saab and if power and torque are roughly equal, but the Saab’s engine is pushing less weight the Saab will feel and actually be faster.
If you don’t need AWD there’s no reason to have it. It just sucks gas and makes the engine have to push more mass, making the car less quick.
Another consideration (and I know this’ll sound nuts) is that in the one experience I’ve had with a Subaru rental car (it was a few years ago in an Outback wagon) I found the hard way when the car is really filthy with mud (I had been driving through snow in the Canadian Rockies, which gathers all kinds of road grime on the car) you’ll get mud on the back of your pant legs.
The door sills are not protected by the door so mud gets all over them and it’s very difficult and takes a conscious effort to remember to not bump your leg on the door sill when getting in and out of the car. I remember reading somewhere that Saabs (at least the C900) were designed with door sills that are protected by the shape of the door itself which keeps this problem from happening.
I know, it’s a VERY minor consideration when you’re looking at a price difference like the one you’re looking at, but it’s another thing that you’d never think of during a test drive.
Beware of Japanese seats!
I haven’t taken a long trip in a Suby lately, but I doubt the seats are anywhere as comfortable (and safe) as Saab seats. Generally speaking, European cars have superior seats. If this is important to you, make sure you look into this. I got rid of a Camry because it was literally breaking my back. Also, although Subarus are well rated for reliability, I have a friend who had to have engine replacements on both his Outbacks. Luckily on warranty, but nevertheless, not reassuring.
I used to own a Subaru, so I think I can offer some advice.
There’s quite a few things that I don’t miss about the Sub.
The seats sucked. Not only were they totally uncomfortable (no lumbar support, and they make you sit with you legs up in the air if you are over 6 feet tall), but the seat trim was coming apart after 100,000km. Say what you want about Saab interiors, but I’ve seen Saabs with three times that mileage that showed almost no wear.
Subaru engines just don’t rev (unless you get an STI). There isn’t anything over 4,000 rpm, except for painful noises. You will say a little prayer before you try to pass anyone.
Handling. The Sub had good handling and lots of traction, but the Saab is way more engaging and more stable. Even in deep snow, I find the Saab more relaxing to drive because it doesn’t wander as much.
Trionic. Subaru has one of the worse engine management systems around. It would suffer from intermittent engine knock. Check engine lights offered little in the way of diagnostics (even using the dealer’s software). Fixing any problem is pretty much a guessing game: air flow meter? ignition coil? oxygen sensor? idle controller? evap purge valve? …you will change them all and not necessarily fix your issue.
Noise. The engine is noisy, the transmission is noisy, the drive line is noisy, and the tires are noisy. It wears on you.
Reliability. Saabs have little German parts that break down, but Subaru 2.5′s are known for going through head gaskets like beers at a barbecue. Your centre diff will fail (not within the first three years, mind you). Your clutch will shudder if you go for a manual.
Fuel economy. They may give similar numbers on the test loop, but my Saab is way better on a long trip (and slightly better in the city). Not bad for 60 more horsepower.
Brakes. No contest. The Subaru will scare the hell out of you if you ever have to do a panic stop.
Equipment. They may match-up on the big items, but the Saab has way more little things that matter. Better sun visors, a trunk handle that doesn’t get dirty, hidden seat pockets, windows that don’t drip on your sleeve in the rain. Things that you notice from day to day.
I will say one thing for the Subaru: I got good money out of it when I sold it. I replaced it with a three year old Saab, so the previous owner took the bullet on for me.
Here’s a hidden cost of the Subaru-
You have to buy four tires at a time so as not to mess up the AWD. With a Saab you can buy one or two at a time if need be.
Subaru windshields are notorious for starring, cracking, and otherwise needing to be replaced. I don’t know if the glass is thinner to keep weight down or simply because it is cheaper. The sheetmetal is also much thinner on the Subie, as any hailstorm can show you. European cars rarely need attention, whereas the Japanese cars show amazing amounts of damage after a minor hail.
Also, shop around on insurance. In the States the Saab is usually less to insure, if not the same. Those frameless doors on the Subie are an easy way in for thieves.
And of course, fuel economy. Any Saab 4cyl. will beat a boxer 4 and AWD on the freeway.
Another consideration: you mention that in Oz the Saab has a 3-year, 100 km warranty? Is that “bumper-to-bumper” or powertrain?
Because here in the States Saabs now come with a 5 year/100K miles powertrain warranty (and a 4 year/50K miles “basic” or “bumper-to-bumper” warranty).
Because Saabs sold in the States are made in the same factory as those sold in Australia I’m sure they’re designed to last at least 5 years or 160,934 km (100K miles).
The Subaru here only comes with a 5 year or 60K mile powertrain warranty. That doesn’t seem like it’s putting a lot of faith in their specialized boxer engine, and if you consider what Bernard wrote above about head gaskets and center differentials you can find yourself putting a lot of money into Subaru repairs in three years (or 96,000 km). I would figure due to the particularities of the Subaru engine and other systems you’d need to find a Subaru specialist to work on it, which likely comes at a premium.
So while it seems you save over AUD12K on the up-front price, you usually get what you pay for. The Saab is more comfortable and may prove to be reliable for longer than the Subaru.
Richo: “… the big issue is taste, but at what cost? How much and for how long can you swallow the short comings of a car that feels part of your soul. How much disappointment are you willing to bare?”
Tough questions, I’ll admit, but it seems you’re in the dilemna because you love Saabs, and love your Saab – look forward to driving it, love the way it looks, love the way it feels on the road, love to just be in the car – period. (just my assumptions!) Will you feel the same in the Sub? If you go will the sub, will you regret it, and keep looking for the first opportunity to trade back to Saab? If so, what will it cost?
If you’re interested in an ’07, are there any still around at the AUS dealers, and any incentives still in place? I know it’s not ideal, and doesn’t answer the issues of initial cost, resale value, etc., but for now it closes the price gap.
Just my thoughts, and hope the Viggen gets fixed w/o too much trouble/cost!
I’m a Viggen driver and have driven the 9-3 and both the Legacy nonturbo and GT.
I avoid repeating what’s already been said in detail, but Saab seats are better, I think Subie interior is better, I think Subie drives better, Subie reliability should be remarkably better but they are known for paint chips…
Now the nonturbo Legacy is a real dog, especially if you’re coming out of the Viggen. You really want the GT (turbo), that thing is awesome and I think a bargain. The new Subie Impreza is not that much smaller but is significantly lighter, so if money is a big issue try the Impreza.
The current car that is most like the Viggen is the Mazdaspeed3. Similar size, turbo, hatch, decent inside, FWD. Even some reviews mentioned the Viggen. Plus the ‘speed3 isn’t that expensive at least here in the USA.
Hi Richo, I understand your pain and dilemma.
I have a 1999 9-3 Monte Carlo which has only done 85,000Km. I intend to keep it another 3 or 4 years. If it were to suffer problems like your Viggen seems to be experiencing, I’m not sure what I’d do at the moment. I wouldn’t be in a position to buy a new Saab and I’m not sure that I’d choose to anyway. I’ve never been particularly fond of the 9-3SS and even though I recognize that the MY08 version is a much improved car, it still doesn’t ring any bells for me.
I’m somewhat loathe to recommend a Subaru or anything else, but I guess I’ll play the Devil’s Advocate here.
You say your new car purchase is only a 3 year stop gap measure? In 3 years time there will be a much better range of Saab vehicles available, the 9-1, the new 9-5 and a replacement 9-3 will be very close. If you want an SUV, the 9-4x will be here too. I’d recommend that you just buy what you can afford to buy at the moment and plan ahead for when you’ll have a better
choice. Buying another Saab just for the sake of buying a Saab is definitely the wrong thing to do!
Anyway try not to give up on your Vigggen just yet! A friend of mine (also my boss!) bought a 3 litre Liberty about 2 years ago. I know he considered a Saab at the time, but went with the Subaru. Recently I gave him a lift home in my Monte Carlo. He commented on how nice the leather interior was and how comfortable the seats were in my nine year old Saab!
That’s probably confused the issue a bit, but best of luck whatever path you choose.
Did I also mention the new Impreza has a real hatch now too?
I bet the Saab is WAY safer in real-file tests. Do Subaru even have anything like a moose test?
There ain’t no Mooses in Oz.
Markac, I agree wholeheartedly. The current line up of Saabs just don’t do it for me either so buying a new one is out of the question. Couple that with the non-existent resale and it all adds up to a 2nd hand one anyway. I wouldn’t buy an 07 model as the material quality just isn’t there, so really it leaves me with the option of repairing the Viggen, or not.
I too thought I would enjoy 3-4 years more, then probably keep it anyway since it wouldn’t be worth anything then. By that time Saab would have released a series of new models, addressed the quality issues and be more popular, helping the resale value.
BUT, after this experience with the marquee model, it can’t help but leave a bad taste in my mouth.
I bought a 2007 Legacy in 2006. I test drove a Saab 9-3 and loved it, but the AWD, price and not having to get premium gas were too good to pass up. Here in New England, I want the additional traction of AWD, even if we don’t have ridiculous snowfall. My driveway can be difficult before my plow guy gets there.
The Legacy is a nice car. But I would like a little more room in the front. I don’t need a super amount of horsepower – 175 is enough (but I’d gladly take 210 in the 9-3). And the 9-3′s interior is better.
That being said, I will still test drive a 2009 9-3 2.0t with AWD when it comes out.
Rico wrote: « BUT, after this experience with the marquee model…»
I know I will offend him, Swade a few other Viggen unconditionals out there but the Viggen is the single model that hurt Saab the most in all the history of the company. The bad press that torque steer monster has attracted to the brand is unfathomable. I remember some journalists (wrongly) writing off the whole brand because of the Viggen. This even came from experienced and decorated race drivers. I know that a rescue kit was maid available to correct the problem, but not everybody knows this and in any case, just to have to add a «rescue» kit to an expensive hallow car says it all. Shame for a rotten job by TWR and for Saab for falling for it!
No.9… not at all. We as Viggen owners know full well the car should never have been built nor sold as it was, but it’s still a bloody hoot and looks awesome even 8 years later. Show me another car of that vintage that stacks up? It’s a monster, is terrible under hard acceleration, cornering…. BUT….. it’s just soooo much fun!!! Open road driving is a different story, they simply DON’T come any better. Overtaking is a NON issue, comfort and general drive cannot be surpassed.
Never was meant to be a race car, always designed for touring, of which it is simply the best. Hands down.
Richo, I agree with you about the Viggen, it’s still my dream car but I think the Monte is as close as I’ll get now. The car got bad press in Oz even worse in the UK, but strangely somewhat better in the US, which probably explains why it was sold ther much longer? The platform was never up to the job although Abbott racing and others managed to make it acceptable. Something that Saab couldn’t seeem to do themselves.
It’s a sad pity that when Saab finally got a decent platform to work with, they built such a boring bloody car on it! But I guess I can’t blame them totally. The proposed Saab 9-3 coupe was canned by GM bean counters. A Viggen version of that car might have gained a lot of attention and attracted a lot more buyers to the brand. I hope GM have learnt their lesson?
Anyhow I am thinking of eventually modding the Monte Carlo a bit (B204R HOT), but pushing it too far will give me the same problems as a Viggen I suppose?
I test drove a 2004 Subaru Legacy GT Limited in 2004 when I was cross-shopping it with a 330i and the 2004 9-3 Aero. I didn’t like the feel of the engine – even though turbo-charged it didn’t “feel” fast until you were way up in the RPM band. SAAB on the other hand offers torque from the low end. The 330i I deemed excellent in all respects (this was the E46) but I felt was overpriced (of course now I drive a 335i – work has been good).
The Subaru exterior was very bland IMO except for the hood scoop just looked a bit “rice” to me, like an afterthought.
Also, directly comparing the 2004 9-3 with the 2004 Legacy, the AWD is useless in Atlanta where snow is a 10 year event at best, and the EPA (economy ratings) for the Subaru were significantly worse than the SAAB.
In retrospect, given my somewhat disappointing experience with the GM 9-3, I still don’t wish I’d gotten the Subaru – I wish I’d gotten the 330i back then. The sound of the engine, the materials and the build quality really by far bested the Subaru and the SAAB – it’s the same old tale – you get what you pay for.
Richo,
One thing I forgot to mention was that when comparing the 9-5 Aero with the Legacy XT, there was no way I would have bought the Saab if I paid anything close to retail. I couldn’t get a deal on the Outback, but I could on the Saab making the decision much easier.
Given the speed restrictions and quality of the roads in Sydney and western NSW, I would definitely go with the Outback. If it is anything like the US model, the non-turbo engine is mated to a transmission with low gearing that works well in city traffic and is more than enough up to around 110 kph.
This is also a much easier decision if you are only going to keep it for a few years. Depreciation on the Saab will be a killer.
Richo wrote “There ain’t no Mooses in Oz.” You got to be kidding – don’t you know the moose or elk test which flipped the MB A-class a few years back and they scuttled back to the drawing board before releasing the thing again for production? This is as an important parameter in terms of safe handling as you can get. A car without that intuitive input, that precision in terms of handling without shaking your stomach contents empty is the hallmark of entry into the premium C-segment.
Interesting possibilities richo & perhaps a classic heart vs head scenario. My 2c worth….
1) a good 2nd hand 93 Aero SS can be had for around $30K. Less if you are lucky.
2) The turbo Subies are awesom but (contrary to another commenter) they really need to rev to get going. Get a GT over 4000rpm and its another world. You need to spend a lot of money in Europe to match it.
3) The GT & 3.0 lack torque – especially low down. I my view, its a classic Subie (?boxer? Porsche? ) problem that they overcome by willingness to rev. You will notice this around town especially. I know they have the numbers but really, they are all about revving.
4) Build quality would have to go to Japan. They are beautifully made. Thats why the re-sale is so good.
Despite all this, I personally would pick the Saab but its not necessarily based on pure logic – and I’m not alking about A Linear spec either. You’d have to go a 2nd hand aero – not a Linear. If finances dictate Linear then there is no competition unfortunately.
Different pricing sucks! In Sweden a Subaru Legacy 2,5i Business Sedan is 279.900 SEK.. in Aussie dollars that is almost 46.000!!!! For that money you get lether upholstry but NO Sat Nav.
In Sweden Sat Nav is only obtainable in the 3,0 Spec B.
A Saab 9-3 with similar equipment AND WITH Sat Nav is about the same money…
Oh, by the way.. For 32.900 AUD you would get an Impreza 1,5 in Sweden. And for 77.200 AUD you would be able to drive home in a 5 seat Tribeca…
i would buy a saab; in fact, i just did.
i faced the same issue: current (1994) saab is becoming a money pit and will probably not last till the next-gen, cool models arrive. therefore, as a 3-year solution, i could either replace the old saab with a new one or leave the brand. i chose the former and should be collecting an ’08, 9-3 sedan by week’s end.
a subaru (or whatever) won’t fill a saab void for me. and as much as i criticize the brand, saab still manages to be seductive. i’m confident that its deficiencies will be addressed, as well. but in the meantime, it shouldn’t too difficult for me to live with a new 9-3 for 3 years, or so.
ymmv.
luck.
Well I currently own both cars, so maybe I can shed some light on the topic.
There is no question the Saab is the “nicer” car. But that doesn’t mean you should buy it. I’ll explain:
I bought my Subie in 1996 and it now has 170,000-plus miles on it. It runs like a champ, except for a small leak in the power steering, which I am too cheap to fix. I do treat the car great – oil changes and regular maintenance.I do, however, drive the car hard. I drive fast, go off road in the snow, etc. The Subaru has been fantastic.
So why did I get the Saab instead of another Subaru?
Mainly, the styling of the 9-3 is absolutely brilliant. Subarus look horrible. Interior-wise, the Saab wins again. Subarus are very basic. At the end of the day your driving a Subaru.
Other than that, it’s a tough call. Everything else points to getting a Subaru. THe price is better, has AWD, has bluetooth, has the reliability factor. And don’t be fooled by Saab’s “claim” on MPG. Subarus will do just as good.
So it comes down to…..style. If you like the look of the Subie, get it. If you like the look of the Saab, get that. Whatever you like, you’ll be driving it EVERY day. That should be a big factor.