I’m hoping to receive a decision soon from the Insurance Industry Ombudsman with regard to my Viggen crash. They have set time frames for making decisions and the deadline on mine is fast approaching.
I’m also hoping that that decision will be favourable and lead to the insurance company fixing the Viggen, or writing it off. If they write it off, I’ll most likely buy it back and organise the repairs myself.
If the Ombudsman doesn’t decide in my favour, then the rest of this post is meaningless, but let’s try and stay positive, shall we?
——
If they do find in my favour, then the Viggen gets fixed. I’m really sorry to say so, but in that case, my 1985 Saab 900 Aero will be somewhat surplus to my needs. We don’t have room to store it, either.
In an ideal world, what I’d like to have is one modern, comfortable and reliable vehicle (that would be the Viggen – and I’m not listening, Richo 
) and one classic older car to play around with. Given that I’d have a modern turbocharged Saab, I’m not sure I could hold off a few long-held desires in favour of keeping the 900.
As a result, my eyes have been wandering recently. Wandering to things like this:
And this:
I’ve been a closet Alfa Romeo fan for years now, having owned a Sprint for a little while prior to getting my first Saab. I know they’ve got rubbish reputations if they’re not looked after correctly, but there’s something about these little Italians that just really gets my blood flowing.
I spotted a green GTV like the ’73 pictured above in traffic last night and even my wife agreed it was beautiful.
So I ‘need’ one modern car and one classic, then. What if the Viggen were too expensive to buy back and I’d need to replace my modern car and keep the 900 as the classic?
Then I’d start wandering toward something like this:
That’s the most recent GTV, from around 2000. It was made with either a 2.0 four cylinder engine or a 3.0 litre V6. They say the four is the one to go for. It’s a stunning piece of machinery to see on the road.
——
Do you have a second brand and if so, what is it?
What would be your ideal “extra” car and why?
And please do forgive my thoughts of automotive adultery….
My extra car would be a lotus elise, first or second generation I dont really mind but it would have to be in a ridiculous colour.
Unfortunately I have several second brands. I would go with a modern SAAB and an old Lotus, Europa, Elite, Elan one of each would be nice
I also like Alfas and i once owned a Porsche 911 i regret selling.
Saab and Alfa seem to go together, would be my first, err, second, choice also. But, I might like cruising in a Citroen DS also.
It’s only been in the last few years since I’ve been in the multiple car mode. So the idea of having a “primary” and a “secondary” brand seems quite exotic to me.
Alfa would be a clear #2 if they were still sold in the US. I very nearly bought an Alfa 164 brand new in the early 90′s, but ended up with an Acura Integra instead. (The sensible choice, it was fun and reliable but 3 years later I had no regrets when I sold it and bought a 9000 Turbo).
Porsche (of the non-SUV persuasion) also trips my trigger.
After a period in my youth where I thought they were the ugliest cars on the planet, I’m pleased to say I’ve grown, matured and developed a sense of discretion and taste. Hence I’d be more than happy to join you cruising in the Citroen DS, Ted
And I think Porsches trip just about everyone’s trigger, Greg. I could live in one of those, too, but realistically they’re out of my league.
Porsche will always be my number 2 closley followed by Audi/VW.
But it must be a 2 door!!
a.
Why don’t they sell Alfas in the US? :’(
They haven’t sold Alfas in the U.S. since 1995…poor dealer network, years of unreliability (though the 164 isnt nearly as bad as its made out to be) put the nail in the coffin for Alfa…although they will be back. time heals mosts wounds.
I am a sucker for auto companies with character, so i welcome them back with open arms.
As a Jaguar owner, I am interested in a second car … for parts. Uggh.
Yeah, because if there’s one thing you need to counterbalance your “reliable” Viggen it’s an Italian car!
My first car was a 1976 FIAT 124 Sport Spider 1800. Great character. I don’t know if I ever went a week without something breaking on it though. Leaked oil like a civ too. Enjoy!
Mag-X: Alfa’s coming back next year reportedly, I believe. I think they left because they weren’t selling enough volume here to make it worth all the special things they had to do to make the cars conform to U.S. DOT requirements (airbags, etc.). My FIAT had this horrible steel grafted-on bumper on the front to meet U.S. requirements. It allegedly made the car safer, but took a lot of the Italian beauty out of the car as well.
My “extra” car would probably be an early 70′s FIAT Spider. I can’t help it!
Or maybe a Lotus Esprit. Completely impractical!
forgot to mention my wish lists non-saab: volvo (love all swedes) V70R a mighty fine wagon with scoot….mgb, triumph tr3…love the sound and style of old school english roadsters…Mercedes Benz SL500 AMG…a stupid fast grand touring convertible…Land Rover Defender 90…the only SUV that ever needed reason to exist…Ferrari (any)…i could go on and on but I’ll stop there
My ’89 900T is sitting in the garage while I have an ’04 325Ci in the driveway.
I grew up loving BMW, but just yesterday I took a long, hard look at
this .
Unfortunately, in Denver I really want FWD…
Alfas are hot, the sound of the Alfa V6 is to die for. So if the Vig deal falls through, get a GTV or 156 with the classic Alfa V6, you won’t be disappointed.
Did they ever sell a Q4 GTV?
I don’t think so, Alex, wrt to the Q4 GTV. Never seen one, at least. The older GTVs are RWD whereas the new one I’ve got a photo of up there is FWD.
They sold Q4 versions of the 33 wagon, but they’re not exactly what I’m after. I’ve also seen a “Permanent 4″ performance version of the 33 hatch here for sale, but parts would be next to impossible for an extremely low volume 15+ year old car.
Interesting side note on alternative vehicles and Saab staff. You might recall previous Saab chief Bob Sinclair’s Ferrari. Then there’s USA chief Steve Shannon and his classic Buick. Saab USA’s PR guy has an older Porsche 911 and their product guy has a Ferrari (I think it was a Mondial).
Yeah I just realized they didn’t really release Q4 until they started to use the GM/Fiat premium platform.
So replace the Viggen with a 159 or Brera and you won’t even have to feel bad about leaving Saab since you’ll be driving what the 2nd gen 9-5 would have and should have been.
My dream Alfa goes between a pre-facelift 90′s GTV 3.2 24v and a Brera 3.2 Q4. I was really hoping that Saab would follow Alfa’s lead with the Brera and build a production-ized Aero X. The Brera concept was just as significant for Alfa as the Aero-X has been for Saab.
A few shoutouts I’d like to make:
I know we do a fair bit of BMW-bashing around here and there are ways in which Saab crucially betters the stereotipic ultimate premium brand. That said, you’d be a fool not to admit that they make some really, really excellent cars.
Subaru. Some of them are a bit down on power and sportiness but they can all be optioned up to be seirously fast. Couple that with standard AWD across the range in the US and you have a great product. As much as I hate to admit it sometimes, Subarus do make alot of sense, and they’re seriously fun to drive.
For all of you ‘Maricans lusting over an Alfa and lamenting that we can’t get one, chin-up: Alfa’s returning to the U.S. market in late 2009 with an “initial wave” of three models: the 159 sedan, the Brera coupe, and the Brera Spider.
They’re allegedly slated to be distributed through Maserati dealers, so if you think that your Saab dealer is too far from your home, I don’t suggest you get an Alfa!
Personally, the closest Maserati dealer is closer to my home than the closest Saab dealer.
Wow, I might just have to change my “other car” on my list from a FIAT to an Alfa Spider. Is this something for Saab to worry about that so many Saabophiles may be lured-away by Alfa?
Shame on you all! My second car (if I had a first one…a 900 turbo coupe, of course) would be a Sonett!
Just kidding…just yesterday I too was lusting after a GTV 2000. Check out the youtube of it autocrossing…just LISTEN to that engine.
Much to my distress, there is no way I could afford to run two cars, but during my absence from owning a Saab, I have been a happy owner of a string of Land Rovers.
Land Rover is a prime example of what can be achieved with an aging (established), fragile and unique brand with a fiercely loyal fan base. That is, in the context of a supportive and understanding owner (Ford).
We have seen what Ford has done for other stables such as Land Rover and Volvo, which makes it distressing to compare to see how GM has managed Saab in comparison.
But I think GM is getting the message. It took a special Saab to bring me back to the stable and that was the Turbo X.
I am excited to once again not only be a Saab fan, but a Saab driver.
@Tim in Denver
The Crossfire is very cool. One of the only American cars I would consider sitting on the left side in.
I have no need or want (Even if they are extremely appealing) for extreme performance-out-of-the-box-built cars like Porsche’s, etc. Being reasonable, I would love to own a Viggen some day (In Lightning Blue), a 9000 Aero (Preferable second generation), a 900 turbo (Exact model year not certain of; I love the flatnoses, later SPG’s, even verts!), and just for fun (But probably not likely), a classic 99 Turbo (Black, just like the originals).
As for non-Saab cars (And some are controversial to be mentioned here), but I would love to own a classic Audi Quattro Turbo (Not likely though; Even one in acceptable condition and extremely expensive), an older Volvo Turbo sedan (BLASPHEMY!!), and I’m really fond of the original BMW M3′s (I’m going to Hell. I know).
For the longest time I was crazy about Jeeps, specifically the CJ models. Of course, I made the switch from Jeep to Saab due to gas consumption and practicality. But if I was loaded, I’d definitely have a lifted V8 powered CJ-7 on 33″+ tires
.
Oh well, we all like to dream
Oh nuts! I just remembered that I’d love to have both a Sonnett II and a Sonnett III! (Modified [Turbo?], cause the V-4 wouldn’t give enough power)
And while it might be a bit grungy, a really late AMC AMX.
And while I’m still dreaming, and it’s even more blasphemous, I’ve repeatedly had this Frankenstein-Saab monster concept: A classic 900 with the engine mounted backwards (From it’s already backwards position
), and AWD setup, and twin-sequential turbochargers.
bwahaha, though I’d be banned from Saab-land for doing such a thing
Well, at the moment my garage consist of two older Saabs (74 99 EMS and 78 99 Turbo) and a 02 RanaultSport Clio. But I don’t think think Renault is my secondary as I don’t like any of the other models. Probably Alfa would be my second choice, I’ve wanted to own one longer than Saabs.
My short list:
Jaguar XJS
BMW 3.0 CS
Volvo P1800
1972 Buick GS
1966 Oldsmobile Toronado
Lancia Beta Montecarlo
Slab-side Lincoln convertible
Second-generation Ford Taurus SHO (with 230 bhp 24-valve Yamaha V6 and 5-speed tranny)
1970-1971 Dodge Challenger R/T (340 cu in. hemi with Weber six-pack)
1970-1972 Oldsmobile Cutlass 442
Third-generation Ford Mustang GT w/manual tranny and 4.9 L V8 (labeled 5.0).
In reality, the rarity of the Lancia would make it difficult to even find, much less keep running. The Bimmer, Toronado and Challenger are sought and expensive as a result. The others would have to do.
My short and wish list:
1. I have owned Audi 80 (styled 500 in local parlance) – that was the 2.3 five-pot. Not again.
2. Alfa Romeo – had most of them (119 series of cars), a 1985 33 1500cc – what a great little miser
3. 1985 Alfa 159i Gold Cloverleaf limited edition – 2.0 l fuel-injected. Full house with unheard off electronic gadgets such as power windows, electric seats, aircon, onboard computer and etc. Sedate but a wonderful winding road mauler. My brother robbed me of this one. No idea where it is now…
4. 1984 Alfa Romeo Giulietta 2.0Ti – not well looked after and got rid of it after 4 months. An army chap bought it.
5. 1985 Alfa Romeo 2.0 l Executive – boy, it had stuff like electric windows, electric seats, onboard computer even in 1985! This one is still running around to a 3rd owner. Taught many a wanna-be front-wheel drive hot hatch a good lesson in why these cars were wonderful handlers with the De Dion rear-axle. They don’t make ‘em like that anymore…
6. Honda Civic (called Ballade) 1600cc VTEC 1997. Bought new and ran until 198,000km before it sailed off into the horizon to the next owner. This car could not and did not break – ran the full 198,000km without ever pausing for a hiccup. That is now reliability.
7. 2001 Saab 9-5 Aero. Do I need to say more
8. 2008 Honda Civic 1800cc VXi – the Mrs choice. Fuel economy of a 1500cc but the power of a 2.0l. Took delivery this week. Expecting the same reliability. JD Power Associates survey convinced me to buy. This was bought thru number-crunching. An educated choice as opposed to what my heart said (an Alfa Romeo 147 or 159 or a used 164 3.0V6).
Swade, that first Alfa is really cool looking. The second, not so much.
Also, they still sold Alfas here until 1995?! I’ve seen TWO on the road my entire life. One was an old Sprint, and one was some sort of 70s Spyder. I thought they stopped selling those things here in like 1985.
Anyone can say they like Porsche, but I think I’ll go with something I might actually own one day as my second brand…
Hm…as far as brands as a whole go…I’m going to go with Buick.
If I had a Saab (let’s say an OG9-3 Aero or Viggen), and I needed/wanted a second car…I’d want an 87 Buick Grand National. Really, I’d want a GNX, but I don’t have $100,000 :p I’d definitely want something RWD, though. If I couldn’t find a nice Grand National, I’d look for an 89 Fiero (screw practicality, it’s a mid-engined car from Detroit!). Third choice, a Caddy STS.
Forgot, after the 9-5 purchase in 2001, I got another MY01 9-5 Aero in 2005 and a new Renault Clio 1600 hatchback whilst the cosmic blue 9-5 went in for repairs which took 6 months (the franchised service agent went pear-shaped and belly up and since there were warranty issues I had to wait this long).
If I really could dream, I would want an MY99 Maserati Quatroporte Ottocilindri in manual and in red. Yeah, I am allowed to dream…
I personally love the old GTV’s but I would never recommend one to someone who’s not into wrenching himself or has a very good local Alfa workshop…
ohhhhhh Swade!!! Great minds think alike!
I think about the bertone coupés and modern GTVs exactly like you and exactly for the same reasons: all I know is that I’ll eventually have one.
The classic and venerable Alfa Romeo 2.5V6 powertrain which was launched in this part of the world as part of the low volume Alfa 6, the GTV 2.5V6 in 1983 had this sonorous, burble which is so intoxicating at full throttle that I used to wake up in the morning on a Saturday and venture to a road with sweeping bends outside town to a game farm just to listen to the roar like a small child in a candy shop. Then it morphed into the Alfa Romeo 75, into the 156 and 164 and it is essentially the same engine from wayback 1983 which has now morphed into the 3.2 V6 unit used in the Brera, Spider and etc. I got hooked and intoxicated until to this day and my preferred choice is the 1985 GTV 2.5V6 with the De Dion rear-axle and that propshaft which used to kill couplings or doughouts like there was no tomorrow.
If you don’t have room for the aero, where will you put the alfa?
I don’t see any reason not to have both a classic and a modern saab, but I’ll leave that decision to you
Our current “extra” cars:
Volvo P1800-65
Alfa Sprint-78
Alfa will always have a special place in my heart (I have owned at least 5 of them) but I am glad that I am not forced to rely on one for everyday use.
See pictures here:
http://bolminge.blogspot.com/
I would own multiple SAABs if i could, but if i had to choose another make I would probably go for Jaguar. Either an XKR or XJR. I think the styling of these vehicles is timeless and I love the interiors.
Apart from that I must admit ( reluctantly) that I don’t at all mind the BMW 3 series coupe
Outside of Saab, the ‘other women’ in this affair would be:
1. A new Audi, probably a wagon like the A6 Avante. Might as well go for the RS6 w/a 580 HP V-10 (just saw it while following Gripen’s link to Edmunds!)
2. A Jeep Cherokee, around ’95 – loved these trucks for some reason, and I’ll need something to pull the future RV with.
As for Saabs…I want the cars I never could afford, but drolled over in the showroom when I first fell in love w/ the brand.
1. Talladega red SPG
2, A mint 9000 Aero, maybe ’95
Looking for something for the weekend and without talking silly money, I’d go for something like this in an ideal world (ie. not having two kids)
Classic: Karmann Ghia 1600 convertible, probably black, with cream roof and white wall tyres.
Modern: BMW Z4 2.5i convertible, probably in gunmetal.
Because we’re a family of four the above just wouldn’t be practical though.
My wife and I actually had a big car talk this weekend. We decided to cancel the Turbo X order (it would have replaced my current 93SS Aero). Instead, we decided to expand our car family, so, alongside her Civic and my 93SS, we’re going to add a pre-MY08 93 Aero ‘vert (Flame Red, parchment leather) for those sunny Scottish days. More cars for less money – what’s not to like about that?!
What (1): Not in the garage or driveway (yet): caterham 7 & any other lotus (from 1st elite over fwd elan till mid engine europa S, all are welcome).
Why (1): spirit, pedigree, consequent lightweight, honest engineering above mere style & marketing matters, fun to drive, more enjoyable than any exotic supercar, down to earth & in comparison with all the suv’s out there , they look like a innocent dinky toy.
What (2): Already in the garage, but not used often enough, is a 2-wheel black thing with small carbon-parts:
(colour is like the Helium-range, overal shape of the frame is more like the Aedon/ Scandium range). 0-100 (or 0-60) is simply impossible.
Why (2): to work on my condition, …
http://www.ridley-bikes.com/
What else (3): just a short list of other ones that ever crossed my mind seriously (in no particular order): alfa montreal, subaru impreza, jensen-healey, ginetta G27 or dare G4, mazda rx8, alfa brera, early 90′s golf (II) gtd, matra murena, simca 1000 rally, fiat spider (preferable last serie ’80s – volumex with compressor), honda S2000, suzuki cappuccino, smart roadster coupe, an ’80s tvr wedge (2800 or 3500) and some soft citroën DS, SM and CX’s to compensate the harsh drives of all mentioned above.
Why (3): most of them are fun to drive & they have the looks. In case of the golf II it is pure personal sentiment.
Why not (1) & (3):
-Lack of finances, place to store & time to drive.
-Most of them are no sensible daily drivers. But I do like the idea using an i.e. caterham all year round.
-The Saabs fullfil the needs quit good.
I have to admit, a current AWD 3-series bmw coupe with diesel engine would be fine …
I forgot the Lancia Beta HPE coupé – in reality more a hatch than a coupé , but most of them rusted away, I haven’t seen one since years.
@ eggsngritts, you might find your montecarlo over here in Belgium, if you are lucky:
http://www.abarth-gmr.be/new/cars.php
Money no objection?
A Lancia Stratos – or even a replica, decked out in 1976 Alitalia colours.
Other than that, Alfas and old Citroens.
The original GTV is the featured classic in a Car mag I just got (Jan2008). They say Giugiaro regards it as his second best design after, wait for it, the Fiat Panda
While I can see what you love about Saab for me it’s Italian cars that win the day, in spite of the usual draw backs. That means it’s Fiat, Alfa and (but not recently) Lancia that win. Reality means it’s Fiat, fantasy would be big brother Ferrari.
My favourite Fiat, the little Bertone X1/9. For Alfa it’s the 156, maybe 159 and Lancia Delta Intergrale.
Oh, and add a Citreon 2CV too as it’s the best car ever made.
Alfa is my desire. Citröen is long time family favorite, and the new C5 looks damned good…
But the idea of owning an Alfa…. Nice.
I could see myself trading in my Saab 9-3SS and getting a Alfa Romeo 159 Wagon. Preferably with AWD and a turbo petrol engine (which Alfa don’t offer).
As a second car I have a Porsche Boxster. I wouldn’t mind getting a Porsche Cayman instead.
Jeff — 1995 is correct for the last Alfa imported into the US. The Spider Veloce and the 164 (sister of the Saab 9000) were the last.
Wilfried: You’re proving my point — those Lancias are rare. They were rare in the US even in the 1970′s when they were in production, so no surprise there, I guess.
If money is no object, my list would be different, but, as always, it is.
Ooooh! I forgot about the Aston Martin DB5:
http://www.wheels-near-u.co.uk/blog/wnu_content/sean-connery-db5-sm.jpg
Another vote for the classic Karmann Ghia Cabrio … my family has had 5; two during my driving career, and those were some seriously fun cars to drive — even while being under-powered. (My neighbor’s old Porsche 356b was also a lot of fun …)
The Crossfire caught my eye a few years ago (yet another underpowered vehicle … and also built by Karmann Coachworks … which I didn’t learn until after I already had kinda a crush on it.)
My ultimate car would have to be a late 80s Porsche 911 turbo Cabriolet with the picnic-table whale tail, flared wheel wells with the black “patches” … and it should be in RED. (Need I mention that this car, too would be a Karmann-built?)
If I had to pick a 2008 … hmmm. After the TurboX SportCombior a Saffron Yellow Aero ‘vert, it would have to be … seriously … I’m really not sure. (What is Karmann building now?)
Karmann is in serious trouble at the moment. They lost the merc clk, which MB will build themselves in Bremen.
Last interesting concept from Karmann was a convertible on vw polo basis.
My second car is a Citroën 2CV — it really is the ultimate, bare-bones opposite of my fully loaded 9000. I really like driving it, it just makes me want to smile all the time. And everybody else likes it too: my Saab is just likeable, but everybody absolutely falls in love with the 2CV when they see it!
Hey all,
Fun discussion going on here. I grew up sitting on my dad’s lap steering his GTVs (He’s had three.) Whenever I see one, I want it. I’d love to have a nice example of a ’71-’74 Alfa GTV. I’ll take one in Navy Blue, or that really cool teal they made. Wait, who am I kidding, I can’t go wrong with Red on an Italian car!
Other “fun” cars I’d consider:
An SPG
e30 BMW 325i or M3
BMW 2002
BMW 3.0CS
I guess those first two are kinda right between modern and classic these days. (I’d not hesitate to drive a C900 or e30 daily. I’d rather like it.)
As for my current “fun” transportation:
http://images.kodakgallery.com/servlet/Images/photos4145/2/6/27/69/4/7/704692706207_0_BG.jpg
What can I say, Saab doesn’t make anything like it!
~P
A Lancia Delta Integrale
What a beauty….
Eggs – It’s not that I thought Dan was wrong, I was just amazed that they were here that long.
You know, the 2CV is cool and all, but they’re like old Beetles…it would be neat to have sitting in the driveway, but I’d rather not have to drive a car that requires you to have an appointment to get on the highway.
Jeff: Ahh… my bad.
Alfa was pretty much under the radar for that last ten years or so, you are right. The only reason that I even knew that they were around in the late 1980′s was because my Saab dealer was also the Alfa dealer. They always had one red Spider Veloce and one of another color — sometimes silver, sometimes black and I think they had a couple of yellow ones in there, too. I don’t remember any 164′s on the lot.
Danni,
I had forgotten about the VTEC Hondas. I worked at a Honda garage for the summer back in 93 and was able to test drive a couple of them. VTEC almost performed like a turbo.
got a “second” car– an 01 Nissan PAthfinder.
If money less of an object, I’d love to pick up a Land Cruiser to build for my ultimate Dog Utility Vehicle.
Swade, don’t you know Italians are extremely temperamental, high maint too!
She’s a beauty but thats how they get you. I was looking a Peugeot GTi, since came to my senses.