Joti’s Saab 9-4x improvement
It was mentioned in comments, but I think the improved image needs to be posted here on the front page for all to see.
One design element in the Saab 9-4x concept that many people are having trouble with, me included, is the way the grille extends upwards and interrupts the front line of the hood of the car.
Here’s the picture for your reference:
In comments, Joti posted a link to a version of this that he photoshopped to bring the grille more into line with the hood, as well as bringing it into line with other current Saab designs.
Here’s Joti’s image, which is a fantastic bit of work, for which I think he deserves a big pat on the back (*pats back*).
It’s a lot cleaner and simpler, and just looks better. Comments?
More from this category
- Saab 9-4x nude and other snippets
- Saab 9-4x leaks (as if you didn’t know)
- Continued 9-4x Spy Shots (obligatory)
- AMS score 9-4x spypics
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Thanks Swade (and Joti)
BUILD IT LIKE THIS SAAB!!!!!!!!!!
Much better!!! Would look right at home in a world of new 9-3’s. If shown this or the new Caddy, who would ever turn this down?
Saab: Make it look JUST LIKE THIS and I will take 2.
I for one tend to disagree. The grille extending upwards gives the car a more pronounced look without making it look fake like all Toyotas and Hondas with bumpers and fences all over them. Joti’s version makes it look like a freaking seal. (Nonetheless, I do admire Joti’s effort, and sincerely thank him for it - *pats back*.)
The trouble with those CGIs in general is that they really fail to reflect how the car looks in the flesh. I recall a Chris Bangle interview where he states his cars ain’t photogenic, and I guess this holds true for the 9-4X, too. I should also add that the facelifted 9-3 looks pretty bad from certain angles; it is not until you see one in the flesh and on the road (preferably behind you!) that you know what the true characteristics of the car are.
After having looked at those pics for several hours, I think the two problems with the front I personally see are: 1. there is too much space between the main grill and the side ports; 2. the wing grills sit too close and seem unrelated to the headlamps (a feature that is also prominent on the 9-3 facelift - until you just get used to it).
I have come to think of such design clues as purely intentional. They are perhaps meant to give the car certain stand-outish character that a flush symmetrical design akin to the pre-facelift 9-3 cannot achieve. Recalling yet another interview with a Saab designer, Saabs are not meant to be perfect round spheres (the domain of Audi et al.) - instead, they are to be like a natural stone: beautifully shaped, but with certain kinks, or imperfections if you will.
This - intentionally or otherwise - was the formula behind Saab’s success in the 70’s and 80’s. Let us also remember that our beloved Swedish marquee was never famous for particularly beautiful cars - it was the practicality and the performance of the turbocharged engines that really put Saab on the map. No matter how much I like the classic 900, it is everything but beautiful in the sense a contemporary Alfa or Ferrari is. It’s just… weird. And we all got into Saabs in part because they’re weird.
Change it SAAB!!!!! The grill is awful - keep the photoshoped grill and don’t touch the interior -
Kroum -
Some good points, but can’t cars be distinctive and beautiful at the same time? Does it have to look the nose of it smashed into a Redwood?
Kroum, you are right about CGI’s. I remember seeing CGI’s of the BMW 5 and thought how hideous it was…until I saw the real thing! *drool* I have a feeling Swade will give us his expert opinion once he sees the 9-4X in the flesh but I do ave to say Joti’s interpretation links it to the 9-3SS better.
It’s all a matter of personal taste, Bleuler. I’d take the smashed one over the seal.
I agree with Kroum. At first I didn’t like it, but after seeing it next to the “flat line”, I like the original.
The bump in more distinct.
Not sure I see the ’seal’ comparison there. Maybe if we photoshopped a ball on the nose of the car……
Saab are very obviously catering for the American market with the pre-photoshopped design - where trucks all have these big ugly grilles…
Build the photoshopped car and you will sell worldwide, as it’s simply stunning (and kudos to Joti for the mouse-jockeying)
Build the “Truck” version, and you won’t sell in Europe, Oz, or anywhere else… it’s just plain ugly.
After reading my post back to myself I’d like to apologise for the particularly uneloquent prose.
The current CGI looks a lot like the Isuzu VehiCROSS and the current Nissan Pathfinder. The car also reminds me of the current Mazda CX7. The Photoshop CGI is the one to build!!!
go with the photoshop version. it’s eloquent. the other one looks like a truck.
nice work joti, your clone stamp skills seem much better than my blur tool skills
http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/4596/2178414188e95ca1355docoxw0.jpg
Other than that, I think something that makes it look awkward from the side is the fact that it has 9-5 style upward-sloping corner lamps without the clamshell hood, so that they just jut out into the middle of the sheetmetal.
So if you feel like it, it would be cool to see your front and 3/4 views photoshopped to include a facelift 9-3 style clamshell hood that continues along that line at the top of the headlights. That would do alot to make the front end even more clean and resolved looking, not to mention distinctive looking.
‘Still have mixed feelings about the block grille; I really don’t mind it, but I confess that the smooth line looks great. It’s amazing how such a subtle, small change can rework the car completely
That, and adding in the classic badge makes a lot of difference. I hope they keep the badge in the long run
The altered image looks like a Saab, the original looks like Saab hired the Subaru Tribecca guy…
I like the new grill. If you closely at it, it has a slight resemblemce of an airplane. Also, it follows the new design of the “airplane badge” on the grill.
But keep in mind that this version of the 9-4X is only a concept car. There will be changes when the production car will be build.
I can’t stress enough how much better Joti’s version looks. It would sit so much better along the 9-3 than the unphotoshopped version which quite frankly reminds me ALOT of this: http://www.thetorquereport.com/2008_tribeca_front-thumb.jpg
Worse than the Tribeca (is it possible!?) I think the unphotoshopped version looks like this!
http://img.drive.com.au/drive_images/Editorial/2006/06/27/27heS1M_m.jpg
I must say: it should be an easy and cheap feat for Saab to have a flat-Joki grill on some markets and a bumped-truck grill on others.
The cost and work involved in that design difference should cost no more and be no more difficult to implement than the differences in looks between the Aero 9-3 and “stock” 9-3’s.
COLOUR - you know, I think the notch grille issue might diminish in time, I’m feeling better about it after a (somewhat restless) sleep and would love if someone has the technology to photoshop the car into a better colour - how many silver Q7 or X5 do you see every day? Most are dark grey or black……..think that would help - the silver paintwork is adding to the heavy-hand appearance of that grille at the moment.
…just a week ago, a London based Aussie told me, that he can remember the design of the old SAAB 900 but that he has no clue how the current models look like!
This new 94x looks like a post-comunistic Skoda Kombi 4×4 from Eastern Europe!
But both points together may be good news, since people rather prefer bland cars
in this price segment. If you want to stick out of the crowd get a Ferrari or Aston and if you neighbours already got one get a Koenigsegg.
Btw, the grill of the concept looks better than the modified one. Remember, it´s a SUV. It has to look more aggressiv. Such a car has to deliver the superiority the potential buyer urgently needs.
i’ve just had an id
I’ve done a picture of the 9-4x with the whole grill moved down slightly so it is level without the notch and, IMHO it looks better (however this is low resolution and is on paint.. so not the best quality). I also don’t know how to upload it. Could someone try that for me on better resolution? Thanks if you can.
I still think joti’s is a very good picture tho
Try this for a separated-at-birth twin:
http://www.chevrolet.co.uk/captiva/captiva-exterior-views-images-02.html
Mind you, the Chevy manages 3 rows of seats (Ok, Ok, I’ll not start THAT rant here).
The 9-4x’s combination of 5-only seats and dull styling has hardly set my heart racing - I am disappointed, no other way I can express it.
I do though (as others have rightly said to us ’spoilt brats’ ) appreciate that Saab have a new model, in the right sector and just in time, but it could have been better at no extra cost - the money has been spent here no doubt, just not sure we see the return in any design innovation or distinctiveness - I accept Saabs are rarely beautiful, but they are normally at least fairly recognisable - this looks too generic for me.
We need those LEDs a la 9-3 to ensure a growing brand awareness and corporate face -if every model does something completely different, it’ll just end up the ususal Saab mish-mash of identities due to age profile. When we had a refreshed 903 and new 9-4 within a year of each other, I’d have hoped there would be more consistency - the 9-4 looks ‘older’ than the 9-3!!!! Here’s hoping the 9-5 is a stunner.
I think Joti needs to get a job at saab, his design is much better! Nice work, Joti.
I want it Joti’s way!
Originally is ugly, I’m mourning :´(
Definitely Joti’s way. The original looks like someone mis-measured when putting the front together.
Now, would Joti take a shot at “correcting” the awful flat, shapeless sides and roof?
I give me seal
of approval to Joti’s version… much better
As long as the Griffin Saab badge ends up at the final production model. Atleast in the front and rear. The interior is fine without it like on old old Saabs.
The design is growing on me, even though I can´t see how Anthony Lo could have had his fingers in both the Aero-X and the 9-4X. The Aero-X is one of the most beautiful designs ever, the 9-4X is not. Is a beautilful GT easier to design than a CUV? I can´t see why it would be.
I doo hope Swade gives us the thumbs up when he sees it in the flesh.
Joti’s way, 100%.
I would also like to see a tweak of the grille openings to reduce the spacing between the center and two outer openings. I think that would be cleaner, too.
I like the “real version better”. Takes time to get used to, but it has something….
I like Joti’s, it avoids the trend here in the US to give the car a truck like grill. SAAB make the change!!
Love the interior, pure SAAB!!!!
Joti, please make something out of the rear with the same color on the lights like on the BioPower 100 please.. Better or worse? And please insert the Saab badge
That looks a lot(!) better!
In Swedish eveningpaper Aftonbladet (aftonbladet.se/bil) motorjournalist Robert Collin writes as follows regarding the apperance of the 9-4X…
“We are a few that has gotten the chance to a sneakpeak of Saabs new CUV 9-4X
And it looks good!
Infact realy d*rn good. If the car is as good to drive as it is to look at it could realy mean a breakthrough for Saab. Foremost in USA were smaller luxury cuv´s are gaining ground on the big fuelguzzling SUV´s.
–
When standing beside the new 9-4X the car has the impression of beeing realy large. It´s more the size of a XC90 than a Tiguan. I would compare it in size to the new LandRover Freelander.”
So friends… Lets just hope this non Saab biased but otherwise
clever journalist is right.
Tompa
My hopes are raised a little - I’m sure it will look fine in the metal - the 9-5 has matured nicely in 2 years since we were horrified by it - still not perfect, far from it, but at least distinctive and a talking point (!)
Both images represent two different visual viewpoints. You’ll notice in the photoshopped version the angle of view is slightly above the hip, looking down the hood.. a viewpoint I supsect most of you are responding to positively. The original image is shot lower and square on the grill.. very masculine and typical of “truck” photography but certainly not typical of Saab. I need to see more images before I can say which hood style I prefer.
Joti’s image is a great improvement. I would also delete the SAAB I.D. on the grill, leaving the whole grill black.
Well, look at this issue this way:
If they don’t do it with the raised grille at first, how could they then release a clam-shell facelift a few years later?
God it´s a pain in the a** writing only with one hand.. My left and I´m right handed. Broke my right 5th Metacarpal bone running from a firecracker in the dark on newyears eve.. Ofcoarse a tripped and fell. Silly realy and horribly painful at times, but nothing to stop me from writing comments on TS.
I sure would like to have that 9-4X with the 2,9 litre V6 TiD and a 6 speed auto now in my current state.. Otherwise I´d go with a 6 speed manual..
Just looking for some pitty ofcourse and dreaming about a 250 hp Diesel 9-4X in … Jet Black.. hihi
My problem is the lack of light pipes defining the headlights. I thought it was the new “face” of Saab.
Charles - wouldn’t be so sure they are missing - from some pics, there seems to a outside line going under the headlamps in a TT style?
Look closely, these images are not identical and show two different visual viewpoints. You’ll notice in the photoshopped version the angle of view is slightly above the hip, looking down the hood.. a viewpoint that imo is more elegant and that I supsect most of you are responding to positively. The original image is shot lower and square on the grill.. very masculine and typical of “truck” photography but certainly not typical of Saab. I clearly prefer the angle of view on the photoshopped image, but before I make any decisions about the grill and hood I need to see more images, preferably of the real mccoy.
In another section of TS, someone discusses the little benefit of a CUV (9-4x) vs a SUV (9-7x) with the exception of a small improvement in fuel consumption.
I guess I question the “small” comment as if the data is legit and the 9-4x gets 22mpg combined (assuming 2008 new standards) that is about 38% better than the 9-7x’s 16mpg combined.
More impressive, the 22mpg in the 9-4x is the same combined mileage as the 9-3 sedan (automatic 2.0T) which is constantly be marketed as a very fuel efficient, yet fun car. I guess responsible performance is the correct saying.
Just a thought…
tompa,
Sorry for your injury. (How’s that for pity?)
And, to the rest of you all…
Personally, I like the flat-topped version done by Joti. I think it fits within the current design theme at Saab nicely.
But, am I the first to say that I’ve seen that “center - grille - protrudes - higher - than - the - rest” look somewhere before?
Let me jog your memories to a time before the Tribeca, before the Ford Super-Duty, before even the whatchamacallit!…. I present to you:
http://sg.geocities.com/saabv4portal/main.jpg
Take a look and see for yourself. We’ve seen this before!
While I won’t be driving around in a 9-4x anytime soon, I hope that the I-4, V-6 and V-6 Diesel end up here in the US. Even if not many diesels sell, make it an option. And give me a manual transmission option too. (Can you tell that I don’t like it when marketing whiz’s tell me what kind of car I want to drive? I’ll give you a hint. They’re usually wrong. I drive a manually shifted 5-door hatch that gets 30 mpg and is FAST. No marketing focus group would determine that to be a winner… until BMW makes one or something ;o)
~PGAero
(’93 9K Aero)
Matt: while this is entirely true, when you compare the sacrifice you’re making moving from the 9-7X to the 9-4X, you have to realize that (when we’re comparing running on gasoline, which is only fair since you’re quoting the 9-4X mileage on gasoline) while you gain (using the numbers from the 4.2i 9-7X, not the 6-liter V8 Aero) 38% in fuel economy, you lose around 15% in horsepower (245 versus 285), around 6% in torque (261 ft-lb versus 276), but most importantly you lose towing capacity. The 4.2i 9-7X can tow 5,500 lbs. While we don’t have towing capacity specs for the 9-4X yet, I do know that the 2.3T engine in the 9-5 has a towing capacity of 3,500 lbs.
Enthusiasts who like to tow things will be more limited with the 9-4X. Is this a big deal? Maybe not.
See this comparison I did a while back between small SUVs (or CUVs) and Saab Combis for background.
Excuse the double post.
Joti! You are a genius
Mark: The 3rd row sets are a non-issue in this class.
Also, for safety reasons, Saab have in the past refused to add a 3rd row even in a large truck like th 9-7x.
I myself have been hesitant to put the dog in the back of wagons/SUVs in the past since that is the crumple zone in case of a crash. I ended up settling for a ‘doggie hammock’ next to the child seat…effectively reducing my car’s capacity to two adults
i’ve done a photoshop of the first image with the new lowered grill and it looks good, I think anyway. Also rather than chopping the top of the grill off i’ve lowered it so it keeps the full shape.
Looks a bit more 9-3ish i hope
Sorry for the poor quality, i did it on a new program which i hadn’t used before. Not the best time to try it out but oh well.
If anyone wants to try and improve it….
http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh278/dan9-1/saab9-4xcopy.jpg
Charles- There will be “lighting pipes” on the 9-4X. They are just not visible on these pics but rest assured they will be there. When we saw the vehicle in Sweden they were there along with a design element surrounding the lights besides light pipes. Whether Saab is purposely leaving it off or whatever is hard to say. It is similar to the green/blue color of the dash which was part of the headlight surround on what we saw. It looked pretty unique and it should be interesting to see if it was a last minute change or they are purposely leaving it off as a surprise. i guess only time will tell.
I prefer the Joti´s option, it´s more Saab. The another solution seems the chevrolet symbol.
Dan, LOVE IT.
Patric
good news on the lightpipes - here’s hoping there is a pleasant surprise coming!!!
DMR, I disagree that 3 rows are not a factor in this sector - and one of Swade’s posts on the subject some months ago confirmed many of us have practical needs for 3 rows, over and above the other factors like fashion, looks and sentimentality of design. On a daily basis, my family would make use of the 3rd row capabilities which currently are being provided by my Vauxhall Zafira, ‘cos my 9-3SC is simply too cramped.
If SAAB are serious about competing with either the premium Q7, XC90, X5 or cheaper Antara type vehicles, 3 rows would be a deal-maker. What we have in the 9-4x is a compromised mid-premium, mid-practicality solution.
I take the safety argument seriously too, but if anyone can engineer a car safely it should be SAAB (9-7x aside as an inherited US design). This 9-4x will exceed any safety tests required of it, and if a 3-row option requires a slightly longer wheelbase to ensure occupant safety, that should be done.
Regardless the efforts of Joti and all saab-designers before him, isn’t the 9-4X far too conventional ? (Or when Lotus ever dares to bring out the APX as a production car, saab, i’ll be gone …).
Gentlemen, I did a few quick Photoshop colour variations of the 9-4X, incl. jet black, red and fusion blue.
Check out the complete gallery here. 8 colour variations available, plus a brand new Saab-exclusive colour sources tell me is expected to debut on the 9-4X!
Please keep in mind this was done quickly, so the colours may be not be very accurate, but should give you a general idea.
I did a few quick Photoshop variations of the 9-4X in different colours: check them out here.
Thanks Kroum, I was dying to see other colours and I was sure it would help and, apart from ABBA pink (!), every other colour there does help the grille effect by separating out the three elements more clearly. Think I’d go Titan.
Mark_Belfast: I think that the 9-4X is already pushing it in the weight-to-power department. I can’t imagine how much worse it would be if they stretch it (adding more weight) and make it so you can put three more people in it (in addition to the four it currently carries).
Perhaps the rumored larger SUV to come after the 9¹ (which is due around 2011) will be able to carry 7. At that capacity you’re pushing “bus” status and trying to avoid being a glorified minivan (”people carrier” outside North America).
100% better - storage system looks neat, this may be the next Saab in my driveway
http://www.autospectator.com/cars/files/images/GMProvoqCES01.jpg
The Cadillac 9-4X
Aww…
If you haven´t seen this, go and check it out. Saab invented it, Land Rover has done it. The 9-3X:
http://www.automotive.com/future-cars/90/112-news131207-land-rover-lrx-concept/index.html
That´s how the 9-4X was supposed to look like. Somebody, please photoshop some Saab design cues on that car!
^nice.
THere´s a story of it in a carmagazine (www.carmagazine.co.uk) where it says that they´re going to get that into production, for 2009! It has many neat features and capability to put two racing bikes in the trunk front wheels removed, there´s integrated attaching points inside. Veeery cool car. And they claim that it´ll be one of the most economic cars in it´s class, a hybrid maybe?
Now, where´s the 9-3X?
Take a look at this pic:
http://images.motortrend.com/future/concept_cars/112_news131207_05z+land_rover_LRX_concept+overhead.jpg
It reminds me of something with it´s wrap around windshield, clamshell bonnet, glass roof, short overhangs, dual tailgate…
Gripen, that is a point, but plenty of minivans and SUVs manage it - the third row need only be pop-ups at minimal additional weight and for occasional use, suitable for smaller folk (Trolls?
)
MarkoA, yup we can only weep at the indecision and start-stop handling of the entire 9-3 development programme, but water under the bridge now.
I have some confidence now (where previously I had little) that GM are going to ensure a steady flow of relevant, competitive and desirable cars, the trick is to do that within a coherent design language framework - so maybe if we regard the 9-4x as the start of this new language rather than agonising over why it doesn’t resemble the ‘08 9-3, a design now approaching 10 years from inception?
I am graduallly coming around to the 9-4x, the real test will be the 9-5 due in Autumn this year - that’s the make/break model for credibility in the brand, here’s hoping…..
Well ABBA-pink might convince me …, but i’ll fear even then, indeed the LRX will get more attention.
IMO, Saab /GM had a chance to catch up with todays “premium” brand like Merc, Bmw, Audi and Lexus in the 90s useing the glory of the old 900 cab. But instead, they came up with something like a cheap 93- 900 on a Opel/Vauxhall basis that damaged the brand significantly. And they couldn´t penetrat the company car market (on this Bmw depends on in Europe). Wasn´t there a 900 4-door saloon in the 80s? But none in the 90s. Must have been a “Saaboteur” within the management?
And cars are no ipods or Samsungs, so I have my doubts, that Saab can achieve the same as these companies.
But the real problem is, Saab has only a small home market and thus only a small reliable group of customers.
Saab is not even pushing into the new Asian markets. I have abandoned any hopes for this brand becoming a real competitor in the “premium” segment. Never! This could mean the end.
I think, Saab/GM should correct its strategy like Fiat. And GM should be happy to hold the forts in Sweden and New Sweden (with cars from a Opel plant?).
Look, Saab´s target group and there current customers are afflunet people. But I haven´t met one who was willing to pay the “premium” extra charge for having a certain brand on his car to feel superior to the rest in the traffic jam, like the Bmw guys. They where just happy to have their ignition key between the front seats (like Fiat and Smart;) and drive something exeptional (”premium” customers would hate that).
Thus, the 94x is just the car against mass migration to all these brand that can´t afford charging a “premium” price. Rather a Saab than a KIA/Hyundai?
Fellows.. The 9-4X is a premium model and I´m sure journalists around the world will place it in that segment with a 5 star rating for handling, quality etc. The design is “a bit” non Saabish in some cases, but over all I believe the general public will take it to heart.
Kroum.. I must say that the front apeals to me more and more after you put some color to the car.. Wow it realy stands out in red.. and it looks somewhat “angry”.
PGAero.. Thanx mate! My hand is feeling the pity ;-).. AND, you are right about the grille! Why didn´t anyone think of that before? Good on ya´! Maybe we will see the same in the 9-1wich promises to be something realy extra?
Guys.. Do you think we will see the Cross over of the 9-3SC at dealers previous to the 9-4X or do you think it´s a dead model?
Third row of seats in the 9-4X.. As someone said.. Saffety issue. Some exec at Saab Sweden at some time efter the launch of the 9-5SC told a journalist that there had been thoughts of having a third backwards facing seat in the SC. But that was canned due to saffety issues. It does not go along with Saabs saffety thinking. The Saab 2-stroke 95 offered a third row of seats, but that option was taken away as soon as they discovered that it would be to unsafe to have anyone sit (Kids) in a crumplezone. Yes Saab had crumplezones even back then.. So why do it again? How many XC90 owners request a third row? Nada.. So why should Saab have that option. I´ve got three kids myself so at the moment I don´t need a bigger car.. But I´ve now got a fourth one comming with a different mom. We will then normaly not be needing a sixth seat either. But if we did, and were to travel with all four kids, we would rent a minivan for that short duration.
To me Kroum’s pictures just confirm that the grille looks like a mistake in any color.
I’m not sold on the Land Rover concept as what the 9-4 should be. I think, if you take that shape and lower it, it could be the 9-1.
Michael, I thought that I was the only one who thought the “cheap 93- 900 on a Opel/Vauxhall basis” damaged the brand. I agree.
And, you’re right, it’s tough for Swedish car manufacturers because of the small market. Saabs sell well there, but the market is just too small. So their products always have to be better than the competition.
I really like what I see and am now considering this as my next car and not the new Audi A4. That is a huge decision for me but I like the direction that Saab is going in. This car will look absolutly amazing in the flesh when we see it. I like the grill portruding into the hood, although it’s a little reminicent of what Audi has done it’s a change from the norm of Saabism. Now if we can get some solid details and the right pricing for this vehicle and I think they might have a hit on their hands!