Finally! Something on the Saab 9-4x
As mentioned earlier, I wasn’t able to participate in the GM Next series of chats today. Part of the curse of living where I do. Sure, we have a mild climate and million dollar views for a fraction of the cost, but it’s a PITA trying to talk to almost anyone in the north.
Luckily, Ryan at Saabhistory lives in the country where many of the chats were originating and managed to hook up with Michael Simcoe, one of the exterior designers for GM North America.
The first question is the important one here, as it leads to an answer for one of the questions I’ve been wondering about for a while now - who’s handling the design of the 9-4x?
As it turns out, the design lead is being taken by GM Europe design in Russelsheim, but the exterior design has been done in North America.
The situation, then, is poised for a pretty important unveiling. GM talk a lot about their globalisation and how tasks are spread throughout various centeres around the world. This is all well and good for garden variety stuff, but when you’ve got a brand that should be trading on its distinctiveness, it becomes very important that that brand identity is maintained.
Saabs are Swedish. Maybe we don’t need to be so geographically pedantic, but at the very least we should acknowledge and hope that even if it’s not distinctly Swedish* then GM at least preserves Saab’s European DNA.
I must say that as an enthusiast, there’s nothing more important that preserving Saab’s brand identity. Nothing.
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The complete lack of news about the Saab 9-4x definitely has me under-enthused about the vehicle. I wish I could manufacture some positive emotion here but I’m not into SUV’s to start with, and the lack of anything to look at or talk about just leaves me feeling flat. Hopefully that’ll change in a week from now, and I’m totally open to that being the case.
However, the news that North American designers might be handling the exterior design is not the kind of news to get me excited. And I’m not trying to be anti-American in saying that, it’s just that I’ve only rarely seen an American design that I like.
Want an example of American design, done by GM, that I don’t want within 100km of a Saab? Take a look at the interior of the new Camaro. For one Robert Farago and I are in total agreement. It’s hideous.
The thought that someone might design that interior, and that someone would look at it and say “yeah, that’s great” - and that either of those people might work on a Saab in GM’s global design effort…..well, quite frankly it scares the poop out of me. Which is what it looks like that center console’s trying to do, by the way.
Anyway…..
I’m open to the 9-4x being a complete knock-down success and an absolute stunner. Jan-Ake Jonsson’s excited about it and dealers who saw it back in June/July/August thought it looked good, so we’ll see.
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* and no, I don’t necessarily know what distinctly Swedish is when I see it, but I just know that I’ve never seen anything like it in an American design.
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The interior of the new Camaro looks like the interior in an old Camaro, which is kinda the point. That picture doesn’t show it, but a lot of them had the four little guages in the center, too.
It goes without saying, but I’ll say it anyway - I love every little thing about the new Camaro.
So, I would assume you didn’t know that before saying that this interior might turn up in a Saab, because unless Saab built first-gen Camaros at some point, that will never happen. The people that designed that interior had nothing to do with the 9-4x. Hell, if they did, they’d probably look at old Saabs for inspiration, because that’s their job. But they didn’t, because that’s a totally different design department.
Considering Robert Farago’s undying love for all things American (ha), can you really take his opinion (or any of his dittoheads’ opinions) on a retro muscle car seriously? He can go fall in a well.
+1 Swade… GM has a well known history or ruining everything it touches… I’ve been looking at Opel as a sign of things changing, and I’m hoping the same for SAAB: strategic autonomy, inhouse development and design, and the resources to fulfil that strategy.
But seing that such a determinant project is in american hands, sounds wrong: as you said before, americans buy Saab because it’s swedish, european… not because it fits american demographs or other brilliant marketing gems…
Let’s just hope that the stated “european design lead” saves this one! I still have hope!!!
Jeff, I never said that this interior might turn up in a Saab. I said that I wouldn’t want the people that OK’d this interior to go near the design of a Saab. Old replica or not, it’s absolutely foul.
If their decision making process involves looking at that interior with open eyes and saying that it looks good, then please sir, stay away from anything I might want to drive in the future.
You love the Camaro - great. Enjoy it. I think the outside looks interesting and the inside looks hideous, but each to their own.
I just don’t want the guy that makes that decision responsible for something with Saab in the future - and that’s the danger the further Saab get away from their Swedish roots.
I’m afraid those camaro interior pictures burned a hole in a my retina and I’m now blind…
I strongly disagree that GM has a history of poor design…
Let’s look at what they have recently put out: SUVs: new Tahoe, Yukon, Escalade, Acadia are all very sharp vehicles.
Cars: new Malibu and Cadillac CTS are getting rave reviews. CTS was Motor Trend Car of the Year. When is the last time Saab was even in the discussion, the CTS is a hell of a car.
I am a Saab loyalst, but GM design influence is not all bad.
“GM has a well known history or ruining everything it touches”
If that’s the case, how come they are number one in the world? How come they are actually doing something useful with their European brands unlike Ford who ruined Jaguar and Land Rover and almost did the same with Volvo?
I have only heard of one person (a well-known Swedish auto journalist) how have actually seen the exterior design of the 9-4X, and his words was “it’s the best looking Saab ever.” Non of us have even seen this thing, so give them a chance.
Quantity isn’t a measure that matters to me as a saabist, as you might guess: I’m more for quality, customer relations, and profitability… Think of tiny Porsche.
But as I said, ctm, I’m still hoping!
Sure, Porsche. But then it’s bye bye to practical family cars that people in general can buy and use everyday - and I thought that what was Saab was all about. If Saab want to stay at 130.000 cars a year, they have to up the price tag 50% because there is no business in going on like they do.
Actually, if you have a look at the linked Camaro Concept gallery, the car looks interesting.
I really like the four gauges in front of the gearshift, and the speedo/tach have a nice retro feel. Legibility is aweful for all of these, but that’s not what the Camaro is about.
This car is 100% about taking the baby boomer’s for a ride one last time before they stop being a significant part of the buying public. Let’s face it, the car’s target market got their licence over 40 years ago. You do the math.
The Cobalt SS is Chevy’s equivalent product for the Fast and Furious generation. I haven’t driven one, but I assume that it has lousy handling to go with its cheap interior and overpowered engine. It is essentially a grown-up rusted-out Civic with a Prelude engine.
I would be way more worried if the Camaro concept had the same HVAC and radio controls as the 9-3 and 9-5.
Designed in North America, now I am scared - really scared.
This model is too important to get wrong-it might seem contrary to give it to US designers when it’s main market will be Europe, but let’s hold back until we see it?
Actually, some of the most interesting and beautiful product designs are from North America. People should respect that.
I’m not talking about cars in particular. I’m referring to designs as a whole.
From looking at what GM did with the 9-3 dash redesign for 07 and up, I don’t really have high hopes for the 9-4 interior. Bring back the button dash and SID on top of the dash!
Like you said, Swade, to each his own. I like the Camaro interior. If the people that designed it tried to design a Saab interior, I’m sure it would be completely different. I think you’re not looking at this from the right angle - the Camaro people were told, “make it look like an old Camaro.” If those same people were to design a Saab interior, they’d come at it completely differently. Besides, Saab interiors have all looked almost exactly the same since 1979. It’s not like whoever is designing the 9-4x is going to try something completely different just because he can.
GM vehicles have a history of being the most beautiful things to come out of Detroit, so I don’t know where people got the idea that they can’t design a decent-looking car. Sure, they had a slump in the 80s and 90s, but so did the rest of the world (except the Swedes).
Who did the design of the 9-7x? For what it is…a Trailblazer…I think they managed to do a pretty good job making it look like a Saab (at least from the front). Working from a clean sheet, I have some hope that they won’t F it up. You could at least say that the fuzzy design sketch from SOC does not look particularly “American”…
aren’t most of the world’s SUVs designed in the US? i know it’s true for the Ovlov XC90 and that was good enough for Clarkson to buy several.
GM knows how fickle the Saab community [read: niche] can be. while they may have notions to mainstream-ize the brand, they have relegated themselves in the recent past to *only* striving for 150K sales/yr. if they want mainstream, that’s what the other brands are for.
my hope is the 9-4x has a halo effect as Saab begins to roll out several new products. it’s very easy for us to slip back into a funk of doom n’ gloom with the new 9-3 not popping like we thought it would. however i think we are in for a long, slow climb to profitability and that all starts with getting new models on the road. there’s no better advertising than the “hey, what’s that?” factor at a stoplight. and with only 1 distinct new model (that sells) on the road right now, the nameplate is simply not being seen.
to get things started, they really do need to pump some money/creativity into advertising. but for what? one new car, one old (but brilliant) car, and one on the way out? i know Saab fans have been in “wait and see” mode for 10-12 years, but i think we should hold off on the doomsday forecast until they actually have the portfolio to justify the major ad campaign we need.
It’s looking more and more like the “Saab Brand Center” in Trollhattan is the token figurehead many of us suspected it is when GM announced plans to move Saab production to Russelsheim. Placate the die-hards by giving them a “brand center”.
As it is now design for Saabs is being split between Germany and the U.S. How Swedish is that (and I know that was one of the points in the post, I’m just seconding it)?
It’s going to be hard to write about a vehicle you have no emotional link to next week at Detroit. Might I suggest you simply approach it as comparing apples to oranges? Maybe focus on how the crossover is different than the SUV it’s replacing? I, for one, am hoping Saab carries-over to the 9⁴X its utilitarian load-bearing systems innovated in the 9⁵ like the cargo track system in the trunk and maybe add the integrated bike carrier from some of the concepts (SportHatch?).
Maybe get fuel consumption estimates, towing capacities, and cargo/interior space dimensions to explain why consumers should want the crossover as opposed to the SUV it’s replacing.
Just a suggestion.
The successful future of Saab depends more on the upcoming 9-1 and 9-5 imo. The SUV hype is a useful temporary image boost for the brand. Sometimes it works, e.g. the Land Rover Coupé LRX concept. In some cases a wanabe SUV (like the awkward and edgy styled BMW X3 and Mercedes GLK Freeside concept) is totally useless. Fingers crossed till next weekend.
btw, lots of famous ‘italian’ furniture design isn’t necessarily the work of an Italian… Also in automotive the Lotus Exige, Lamorghini Murcielago and Bentley Continental were designed by Belgians
If GM after all those years are finally getting more into the scandinavian design philosophy, I’m sure the 9-4x will be a Saab.
I agree, Gripen. Good idea.
Joti: I don’t put too much faith in the 9⁵. I know Saab insiders are looking to that vehicle to be the “one”, but IMHO that market is so saturated it’s going to be hard for little Saab to compete. I know they’re planning to roll-out some innovative technology (hybrid?) in it, but through Saab’s last 30 years or so one model line has pretty much carried the marque: the 900/9³ line. The 9000/9⁵ line has pretty much just been “gravy” sales. Now they expect the 9⁵ to carry the marque after years and years of exceptionally poor sales? That’s quite a gamble.
Saab won’t even survive to see the 9¹ hit sales floors if the current poor sales trend continues, I predict. The 9¹ is currently estimated to hit dealer floors in 2011 as a 2012 model, I believe. For some reason that vehicle is going to take a staggering six years or so to develop. So much for being the beneficiary of GM’s engineering resources…
Design is global these days so it would be unusual to have a Swedish design team just to desgin new Saabs. It is more about having a design team that understands the heritage of the brand they are designing for, which to be fair the Camaro designer did. Its like Ridley Scott making Alien and then being told he can’t do Gladiator as he only knows SciFi.
Grip, on your point about the launch of the 9-1, launching the 9-5 and 9-4 ontop of the revised 9-3 will put a lot of pressure on a dealer network. Thats a lot of sales and service staff to train and a lot of time setting up product launches. Launch too many new cars too quickly and customer service will suffer and in the end damgae Saabs reputatiion further.
This is a great dialgoue - thanks to Mr. Wade for that!
I disagree however with whoever said the Acadia is sharp. I looked at that vehicle. Its a piece of plastic. The interior is one big hunk of plastic crap. I got an Acura MDX instead.
In general I agree that GM is a blight on auto design.
beren
That Camaro - interior by Fisher Price!
…the exterior design has been done in North America.–swade
…to save on development costs, as there will be a cadillac version of the 9-4x.
attribution: http://www.leftlanenews.com/saab-9-4x-to-bow-in-detroit-cadillac-to-get-variant.html
one car, 2 fascias. identical dressing works for twins, not cousins. eww.
I actually thought the Acadia was pretty nice when I saw it a few weeks ago.
I was skiing in Vermont and there was a black Acadia with chrome trim, a little dirt and snow on it and I thought it was quite sharp looking.