EnG 1999 Saab 9-5 SE Update
As regular readers know, I bought a 1999 Saab 9-5 last month, and I’ve enjoyed driving it.
But I must say, I’ve not enjoyed fixing it.
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UPDATE: I guess that I thought that it would be understood that since I bought an 8-year-old car, I bought into a few repairs (see comments on stereo, motor mount). As I said in one of the summary paragraphs, I expect to get my hands dirty a little. I went over this car pretty well at the time of purchase, I missed a couple of things, but my lament here is about two specific things: one, dumb luck that a few parts that worked well at the time of purchase failed in the first month of use, and two, that some of these failures are due to poor designs and/or manufacturing processes.
That is, this isn’t so much a “woe is me” whining rant as it is a frustration that our favorite brand is bitten by the same bug as many other manufacturers have fallen prey to: cheaper parts and less attention to longevity for better margins and/or competitive pricing. That’s all.
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First of all, I knew that the radio in it was an iffy thing — the car broker knocked a couple hundred off the price to compensate. It’s completely unusable — the radio included came from a different car, and couldn’t be “married” to my car since it hadn’t been “divorced” from the previous (and unknown) car. After some reasoning through the options, I’ve decided to replace it with an aftermarket unit. I simply couldn’t see paying the price (good used 9-5 head units go for about $200 on eBay) for 8-year-old technology. I’ve ordered the DIN adapter from GenuineSaab.com (thanks for the tip, Greg!) and a Panasonic head unit with a front USB port for thumb drive or iPod connection. Sweet. I’m planning to keep the speakers as they are until I get some of the other things resolved. On the minus side, I really like having the steering wheel controls for the stereo, and the aftermarket unit will not take advantage of them.
Second, you may remember surprise number one: the failure of the serpentine belt. There’s a slight surprise, and one that I don’t think was foreseeable, so it’s something that I’ve not blamed myself or the car for, but it was a pain, none the less.
While the 9-5 was in the shop for the belt, the folks at French’s noticed that it needed a motor mount, so I got that, too. Is eight years and 94,000 miles too soon for a motor mount? Probably not, so, again, I pretty much chalked that up to the “normal” wear and tear on an eight-year-old car.
Well, that wasn’t the end of it. Not even close.
The mechanic in Dallas also noticed something that happens to “all Saab 9-5’s sooner or later” — a leaking heater control valve. This genuinely took me aback since I’d taken a good look under the car before I bought it. I saw no evidence of fluids that seemed out of the ordinary. I told them that I’d take my chances with the car on the trip home. I stopped at an auto parts store in Hurst, Texas along the way and bought a bottle of coolant to be sure. The leak must have been small, because the 9-5 didn’t lose much coolant, if any, on the 700-mile trip home.
Once at home, I took the 9-5 to my local indy Saab mechanic, Eurofix. They fixed the heater control valve, calling it the “welcome to Eurofix” repair because they do them so often. They also found that the oil pressure sensor was leaking a small amount and replaced it before it bacame a major issue. This is a repair that I could have made myself, but I elected to have them do it because it was already in the shop for the heater control valve and I simply didn’t have the time — Christmas and a vacation after Christmas were bearing down, so I had them do it. (I guess that I could have done the heater control valve too, but what a freakin’ pain.)
By now, I was getting a little cranky with this car. Any more surprises and I was going to get downright frustrated.
Of course, since I’m writing this, there have indeed been more surprises.
Early this month, just after the car went through emissions testing (thank goodness), the information display rang out a little cheery tone saying, “Check Engine”. Grrrr. Turns out this was a faulty 02 sensor, cheap and quick fix, but by now I didn’t trust the car at all. That mistrust turned out to be completely justified when I returned from a three-day trip the following week and the car was completely dead. No juice at all. Nary a light bulb flickering. So, the Nashville Airport Security detail jump started the car, and I practically cussed the whole 20 miles home. The next morning the car didn’t start without help from the C900 and a set of jumper cables. I looked at the battery casing for a manufacture date, and, sure enough, the battery was cheap and just over three years old. This is one that I can easily fix, and I bought the new battery and went on, thinking that the little nagging issues were now fully behind me.
I was wrong. The nagging issues keep coming.
This weekend, as the cabin vent fan came on, there was an accompanying rattle that sounded something like playing cards on the spokes of a bicycle. Yes, for all you 9-5 fans out there, it was the dreaded 08 code on the automatic climate control. It seems that Saab built the freakin’ “blend door” (actually a damper to control the mix of outside air the enters the cabin) control arm out of plastic that has the strength of wet pasta once it turns five or six. And, to top it all off, the cabin vent fan has stopped working, period. I’m not sure if it’s a related item or not, and the vent fan motor (which is also known to break right about this time of life) isn’t cheap enough at $300 to just have on hand when I fix the darn control arm.
Argggh!
The real insult to injury? Read the comments on SaabCentral.com about the dealer cost to repair the blend door issue — $1900 and up. Oy vey! It turns out that the “official” Saab parts and methods require that the dealer replace the whole assembly which necessitates near removal of the dash to make the repair. Of course, the aftermarket suppliers have a $100 DIY repair that will suffice. Do you remember my comments on the great write up from Greg Abbott? Are you listening Saab? As aggravating as this is to an enthusiast who expects to get his hands dirty — how does the average driver feel? These things clear Saab dealerships like bulls clear the streets in Pamplona!
Frankly, at the moment, I’m feeling a little let down by the car that I chose. None of this is Earth-shaking, but it needs to let up or the Nine-Five is getting eighty-sixed.
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Sorry to read this, eggsngrits !
Must be very anoying to buy a car and find out that the need for fixing it is ongoing.
But please don’t think that the 9-5 is a bad car in general ! Our 9-5 Sportswagon is now 6 years and 4 months old, and the only problem it has was half a year ago when the airbag sensor in the driver’s door needed to be replaced. No other problem at all !
I hope yours will behave better in future !
Andreas
Sounds like my 99 I just got.
It ran good and had been driven by a little old lady since new. Low miles, dealer services.
Replaced the clutch, and breakes.
Then the fuel pump died.
Replaced that and then couldn’t shift because the clutch wasn’t bled properly (I didn’t do it)
Then the alternator
Then I drove it home and it broke down.
I had it towed and found out it was vacuum leaks.
I got it fixed, drove it home, and it broke down again.
I drove it to work today and it’s running like crap.
It wasn’t supposed to be a damn project. It ran awesome when I bought it. >=|
I don’t want to stir-up a hornet’s nest, but what was the last “reliable” Saab? Was it the C900? The 9000? For all their problems they never seem to go downhill like the post-GM-ownership-of-Saab models do when they get to about 5 years old. All these cheap plastics they use nowadays seem to have a lifetime engineered into them that’s shorter than the lifetime enthusiasts have in mind for their car.
Has there ever been a “reliable” Saab?
I think instead of “reliable” they were “really tough and have amazingly high mileage potential if you take care of them.”
Agreed. EnG
Sorry to hear, Eggs, but in the car’s defense, I’ve only bought one car in nearly 20 years (my Viggen) that didn’t require a bunch of jobs to be done shortly after purchase.
That includes my recent 900, which has a number of leaks, a small crack in the gearbox housing and I’ve just had the CV boot done. Only the CV boot was known when I bought the car. But I love it nonetheless.
I hope your problems end. Now.
Very sorry to hear your ongoing rash of problems. Maybe your 9-5 is testing your love ….. and faith.
It’s a slippery slope, Saab ownership. After you’ve invested XYZ amount of cashola, you feel like “Well, since I’ve already put so much into it, might as well keep it for the long haul.”. First 18 months that I owned my ‘93 9000 (I was 4th owner), I put in about Cdn$8000, or roughly half the cost of the purchase price. That included a full auto tranny rebuild (tranny shop gave me 3-yr, 60,000 km warranty, tho’). And that was just the first 18 months. I think by now I’ve put in close to the full purchase price of the car, but knowing a lot of that were actual wear & tear costs.
That’s why we love ‘em so much I guess.
Hang in there. If you do decide to cut your losses and part with it, it doesn’t make you a bad owner. Just a wiser one.
Sorry to hear that.
but buying a 1999 saab 9-5 is a mistake in any case. and seems like your inspection was not so thourough. the issue with the stereo was suspecious from the start, pointing either to a “careless” dealer or car without history. imho 9-5 beacme somewhat reliable since 2000my.
if i were in your shoes, would sell it as it is and buy smth a bit younger. a bad experiance is also an experiance. Hang in there.
I am really sorry to hear about all your troble with the 9-5, eggsngrits, I really am! My experience with the 9-5 is very good. I drove my previous 2001 9-5 Sport Estate 100 000km without any trouble at all, and my present 2005 9-5 Sport Estate has now 60 000km on the clock and I have so far just changed a lightbulp. This might not be the comfort you need, eggsngrits, but I am just trying to say that all 9-5s aren’t as bad as yours. After all your 9-5 is a 1999 model and an early model of the series. Maybe this and previous owners eventually lack of care of the car could have caused some of these problems? Wishing you all the best, eggsngrits, and that your 9-5 problems won’t take away your enthusiasm for this swedish Jewel.
The heater control valve (which I assume is the heater bypass valve) is a lame design and probably should just be added to the 60k mile service as a regular maintenance item.
It doesn’t fail slowly. Mine failed quite quickly one day.
Exactly my point — lame design. Ditto the blend door plastic and this whole “marry/divorce” business. EnG
“All these cheap plastics they use nowadays seem to have a lifetime engineered into them that’s shorter than the lifetime enthusiasts have in mind for their car.”
Must remember that one.
Isn’t that just a pessimistic variant of TenderLover&Care.
Nice to hear an old white 900 convertible, at least its battery, can revive a newer 9-5. That’s nearly poetic.
Hope eggsngrits’ saab gets better soon.
Hmm… then you might be willing to trade for a Jaguar? No. EnG
Seriously, I’m sorry to hear of your unexpected difficulties. I’ve always been hesitant to buy a newer car simply because of the complexities of the newer systems.
But even with my 18-20 year old cars, there have been issues as you know. Most notably the almost $1000 for the Jag’s fuel pump, filter, and tank. And yet, it’s a nice car despite the repairs.
Hopefully, things will even out for you soon.
After owning 2 9-5s I’ve grown to accept they have a whole set of naggling issues. However after sorting out the small things here and there they are mostly trouble free.
Good thing I like d9-5s so much if it’d been any other car I would have given up a long time ago.
Thanks all for the comments.
I expected to fix a few things, but this has gotten a little out of hand — I bought the thing so that I could fix the C900, not it!!
I’ll get over it. I’m just a little frustrated at the moment.
(…..grumble….cheap plastic parts….paying for marriages that don’t involve my daughter….bargain down the drain….)
I traded my relatively trouble free Viggen in on a 2003 9-5 in June because I needed an automatic. It it only had 22K miles but I too have had a list of nagging issues:
-Fuel gauge sender
-Bad SID, even after the DIY fix there is always a column that is bad. On a humid day it’s unreadable
-Heater control valve
-Bad Thermostat
-Blown tire after hitting a curb while parallel parking (that was just bad luck, hit the curb just right)
Anyone that reads the 9-5 boards will notice that several of the items are quite common. I would expect some issues from a used car even if it only has 22K miles but I feel like Eggs, this is starting to push it. (Yes, some days I miss my Viggen!)
Sorry to hear about your 9-5 problems, but…what did you expect buying a 8-9 year old car. I have had 9 SAABS and 3 of them have been 9-5’s. All bought all the 9-5s new but I still have had several SAABs for 10 years +. You know the drill. If you are buying a car this age, you should have taken it to a good SAAB mechanic to go over it before you bought it. Things like the belt and leaks could have been found and you could have said “fix these things before I buy it” or “take this much off for repairs that I know are needed”. There is a risk for buying used, “let the buyer beware”, but there are ways to lessen the blow. I had an 87 900 for 13 years, over 180,000 miles. Had the car gone over, top to bottom at that point, spent $2k in repairs and sold it 3 month later for $2K. So if it’s older, get use to paying for repairs and just remember that you didn’t spend $30k+ when you bought the car.
Gee, thanks Dad. I did expect to do some work on the car, I just didn’t expect things that were seemingly in good condition when I bought it to be a problem so quickly. My point here is this: at least three of these things would have been in “good shape” if I’d gotten the mechanic to look at it (the 02 sensor, the blend door and the cabin fan), yet they’ve all failed. The belt is a question mark — I still think that’s a possible road debris issue that was just Murphy’s Law in action. On top of that, some of these parts are simply poorly designed to begin with — the heater control/bypass valve, the blend door and the cabin fan are all “known issues” with the 9-5. Reliability and longevity aren’t what they used to be. EnG
What is this “older” business?
I do not consider an 8-9 year old car to be “older”. This should be the time period that a car is just settling into itself. Cylinders are worn in, parts are meshing and all is well. Of course I expect a few small issues to pop up such as O2 and oil pressure sensors and the like. What happened to building a car that will make it through 20 years and still be enjoyably driveable with a little TLC? That was my ‘85 900 Turbo. A few niggling things, but nothing major for the life of the car (over 350,000 km).
A comment was made the other day in another post about how if we wanted less plastic parts in our cars now, then the cost of a new car would be several thousand dollars more. Umm…yes, please! I’d rather pay a few thousand more up front than double or triple that for replacement parts after the warranty expires and things start falling apart. We all know this is where the dealers make their coin, so the less time we have to spend getting fleeced at the dealers, the happier enthusiasts like us will be.
The fact that EnG’s C900 is fairing better than the 9-5 is quite indicative of the difference in build quality given the age difference of the two vehicles.
Well, the C900 needs a lot of work, too. That’s why I got the freakin’ 9-5: to garage the 900 for a month or so to sort out a few things with it. Point well taken, though. Plastics=finite life no matter how much care is taken, metallic parts and simpler designs have a much longer life. Unfortunately, I can hear the Saab/GM people now: “Nobody pays for longevity — they want low rates on a two-year lease!” An unfortunate artifact of our unbiquitous credit society. EnG
The fact of the matter is that most people don’t maintain their cars for at least the last year before they sell them. The next owner almost always has to spend a few thousand
catching up.
You are seeing a bunch of “typical Saab problems,” but don’t start believing that the other brands don’t have their own issues.
It took VW 25 years to redesign their door handles so that they wouldn’t freeze up…
Out of all your issues, I only see a couple that wouldn’t have been caught by regular service (I still think that the belt wasn’t changed every 60,000 miles as it should).
BTW, my cabin fan sometimes makes a noise when it’s very cold out. It’s a typical thing in Canada (I’ve heard it on many cars). What happens is that water condenses and freezes on the fan blades, making it unbalanced. Wait for the weather to heat up before deciding that it needs to be changed.
When buying a used car and especially one that’s almost 10 years old you’ll have to view the first 6 months as an inverted honeymoon and suffer whatever the car throws at you. After that you know the car and it’s after that you’ve fixed the most urgent stuff that you can start to be annoyed about stuff that breaks for no reason…
used cars give me nightmares and flashbacks.
luck.
Eggs:
First, I’m sorry to hear of your troubles. I know the feeling.
I actually want to echo the comment by Mats. It starts out really crappy sometimes, but the car will behave much better once the tantrum takes its course.
I bought an ‘02 9-5 (V6) a little over a year ago. It was riddled with both annoying, small problems and frustratingly expensive, big problems. First my third brake light went out. Because of the design (retaining clips break off), we had to replace the entire assembly…only it didn’t solve the brake light failure. It took a number of bulbs and a circuit board to cure the electrical gremlin.
Other notables include:
-My headlight failed until my neighbor banged on the hood. It’s been working fine since. Go figure!
-Sunroof arm broke (still works with the other)
-Mysterious intermittent SID lighting (one part goes dim, but all the pixels are fine)
It’s also needed some preventative stuff that’s recommended by my local mechanic, like the idler arm and tensioner set that are prone to breaking. At 75-80k I will need to replace the thermostat, which has been known to fail catastrophically at the worst moments…
I bought my car with 50k miles mind you!
But since all that and more, she’s finally settled into her home. And now it’s been several months without so much as a whimper. While I spent a lot initially (besides the purchase!), it’s averaging out now that I’ve had three oil changes and nothing more over the past three seasons.
Look on the bright side: the problems you have now would likely be faced anyway down the road, so at least they’re out of the way. Imagine if your troubles were unrelated and you were left wondering “is my blend door going to fail too?” and “what about my heating system?”, etc.
I expect once this frustrating round is done, your car will finally release its death grip on your wallet.
Good luck! Keep us posted, will ya?
when i got my 1999 9-5, i had to do a bunch of stuff that the previous owner hadn’t done and was long overdue. once i got that out of the way, the car has been problem-free. at least it seems you’re getting blitzed now. as much as it sucks, it’s better than piecemeal. i think once you take care of these issues, you’ll find yourself with a very reliable car.
EnG your atricle and the responses reads like the thread from SAAB Central
What are the most common failures between 50K and 100K miles?
http://www.saabcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=118802
I only have about 20,000 mi on the odometer. I have only had to replace the emblem on the hood done by the dealer under warranty. A couple of times I had to crawl into the trunk and pull the emergency release cable to open the trunk. I adjusted the catch with a scoket wrench so I could open and close the trunk like it should have been from the factory. I hope this car out last the payments.
Eggs,
Rather than going to Eurofix/Saabshop, I would suggest (if you don’t mind getting your hands dirty) doing any repairs that you have time for yourself. I bought a ‘99 9-5 myself a few years ago, that I also checked over, and was quite satisfied with its current condition at the time. As Eurofix is the most likely place in town to take a Saab, I started using them for oil changes and routine maintenance. However, everytime I would visit Eurofix more “problems” would pop up, either on that visit or shortly thereafter. Now this could’ve just been coincidence, but when I became frustrated with the numerous issues my car was having, “problems” they told me must be addressed(Usually for a princely sum.), I started trawling the saab sites and forums for answers. Turns out my car was exhibiting none of the symptoms of these “problems”, physically or functionally, and to date more than 2-3 years later those problems still aren’t a problem. Also, the few actual problems I did have they never seemed to fix, I always got the same response we need to spend more time testing(translated as: We need more money) or diagnosing the problem. Yet, after multiple trips, much more money spent, the Saab experts at Eurofix/Saabshop still wanted to do more testing. So I decided to tackle the issue myself. The real problem my 9-5 did have started occurring about a year after purchase. It became difficult to start in the morning and was idling rough at stoplights. After an hour or so of reading on the internet I decided to pick up some new spark plugs(Copper NGK’s) and a can of throttle body cleaner. The next day I spent about an hour changing the plugs and cleaning the throttle body — Problem solved. My 9-5 has been running like a champ since I quit going to Eurofix, and my wallet definitely feels better. When I do have a problem again, if I can’t handle it myself, I’ll be taking my car to Saab in Nashville. Besides, Eurofix charges almost the same labor rate as the dealership anyway.
I am really sorry to read about your problems EnG, but I support the opinion of one of the above speakers, who noted that 1999 9-5 is a known liability and somebody so much tied with SAAB life and realities, you should have been aware of it.
I had been through 5 SAABs 4 9000s and 1 900OG), none of them younger than 8 years and always bought with 120 - 130 000 Kmiles, but no major issues with any of them.
It is just a mantra for any SAAB owner - do your homework, always use expert advice in case of models you are not familiar with and - good stuff never comes cheap. The amount you “saved” during purchase will be spent later on repairs.
There is always a good reason why auto trade values these cars so low.
I would try to sell it before you invested some major money and would start with approx 10K budget and M2001 +. YOu will spend the difference anyway.
Either way, wish you luck and keep on great work with this site. I am out of SAAB folder now (into youngtimer Mercedes) but I still read your blog regularly. Old addictions do not die easy ;))
Hey eggs, just out of curiosity, what was the diagnosis of your cabin fan/ code 08 error? I only ask because I just stumbled across the exact same problem. I appreciate your experience! thanks and hope you iron out the rest of the problems. It is a fun car to drive nonetheless…
Cabin fan — motor brushes worn out. I put in spacers to allow the brushes to contact the rotor once again. Should last another couple of years that way. New part is $300, I need the money for the C900 right now.
08 Code: It is as described in the link — the little plastic lever that is meant to control the travel of the actuator and motor was broken. You have to get a new one and you have to reconnect the linkage. I got the metal replacement from thesaabsite.com and I fabricated a little repair for the linkage out of a bit of plastic pipe that I had lying around. The SaabCentral link give you everything that you need to know.
Good luck. Indexing the motor and actuator was very difficult to do, so allow some time.
Thanks,
Took the motor out, cleaned the brushes and the motor w/ some alcohol. Works like new. Then I took the lower drivers side panel off and sure enough that white stop lever fell right down in two pieces. Further investigation revealed the shaft is busted but can be repaired with the kit. Now awaiting shipment of my order from the Saabsite… They changed their design by the way. Has anyone had any experience with these plastic repair kits? from what I read they used to be all metal. Thanks again eggsngrits and everyone else who’s contributed.
I sitting here laughing at some of the SAAB stories, first i must tell youI work for a SAAB Dealership in the service dept and I make a pretty good living working for SAAB and the reason why is because of people like you who can’t cut there losses thank you please keep telling your self its going to get better. I just purchased a used 1999 SAAB 9 5 the worst year just because it was the first year and I know what I am getting myself into but I work at a dealership and I could have the work done for free just because we are all friends. Now I also worked for Toyota and the all have problem maybe not like SAAB but I have customers who have been in collisions that would killed them in a Toyota, Honda, Nissan yet they walked away from while driving a SAAB so yeah they have problems yeah there expensive to repair but for the money you spend It drive better then Japanese car, drive just as good as a German car, yet far cheaper . SAAB is a good over engineered car if this car was born from jets I see why swenden is a neutral country just imagine a fighter plane in the air with a check engine light on, leaking head gasket or the best one yet driving at highway speed just to have your direct ignition fail which cause V6 engine to go into limp home mode running on 3 cylinder and damn if you have a 4 cylinder your are S.O.L car will just stall out.
How hard is it to just give what you wrote a once over to ensure that the 15 lines you just typed didn’t result in over 20 typos? Swenden???
I live in Norway and I bought a 1999 Saab 9-5 2.0t about 2 weeks ago. The car is in fantastic condition. It had 154.000 miles on it when I bought it. But the two previous owners have spent alot of money on the, the last owner installed a bigger turbo, replaced the manual tranny and lowered the car and a few minor things. So far I cannot find anything the bugs me as with my previous car, a Mercedes E200. If I get any problems with my car I’m gonna post them here