I’m half asleep from being up all night processing this and now I’m late for day 2 of the show. Eek!
Enjoy.
Saab Cars – Trollhattan Saab
Saab 9-1, 9-3, 9-4x, 9-5, 9-7x News
I’m half asleep from being up all night processing this and now I’m late for day 2 of the show. Eek!
Enjoy.
Swade, your sleep comes first so if we have to wait a bit for news “c’est la vie” as the French would say. Look after yourself first!
Thanks for the video! Great that he took all that time to talk about the the design ideas.
Well done, Swade.
Interesting video.
‘something new in march’, that will happen to occur in Geneve ?
Let’s guess, another concept (9-1 ?) or a production car of … well, mm, let us say aero-X … .
Surely you’ll let us know after hearing some other saab-reps and getting some sleep.
I will sell my kidney to get a production version of the Zero-X.
@Everybody
This is the link you might want to see.
http://www.saab.com/main/GLOBAL/en/index.shtml
It’s great that he made himself available for such a long time for you. Just goes to show how important your ‘blog is to Saab. Everyone is familiar with it and knows the great work you do. I’m with zippy though: you need to make more time for sleep. You can post this kind of stuff when you get back home.
A few thoughts while watching this video:
1. It’s disappointing after Bob Lutz promised the return of the Saab signature wraparound window that this first all-new from-the-ground-up vehicle doesn’t feature it, regardless of the reason why
2. Someone in comments pointed out the rear window and I can really see in the video how small the rear window is. It looks a lot bigger but the part that wraps around is really opaque and is form, rather than function.
3. I know automatic doors are all the rage on people movers right now, but they could lose the motorized tailgate and sliding trunk in favor of manual ones. This would save money, weight (better fuel economy), and probably function faster than the automatic function. It’s all fine and good for the dramatic opening at an auto show, but I can open the door just as well and faster myself. Again, another case of function following form, IMHO. If GM is going to task their worldwide design studios to emulate Swedish design, they can at least try to get the form follows function thing right.
4. In the background people were sitting on the sliding trunk floor and taking pictures. When Saab had this option on the 9⁵ I believe it was able to bear quite a bit of weight, like 350 lbs or something.
5. The ski rack is not a very practical gimmick as some have pointed-out in comments. I’d much rather have seen the integrated bike rack like on the SportHatch concept. Maybe they should have partnered with Gary Fischer again instead of Salomon.
6. Good question about interfering with luggage. However, it seems like they hadn’t considered that before. I wonder if they bothered to try and see if they could fit-in the typically-sized suitcase between the skis and the sidewall of the trunk. Do you have any specs on the cubic-feet of cargo space in the vehicle? I wonder how that compares to say the 9⁵ combi.
7. As someone mentioned elsewhere in comments, if the skis are all wet and muddy after a day of skiing, the person or persons in the back seat have to deal with these wet, dirty skis right next to them as they protrude into the passenger space. I’m surprised that someone in the video representing Saab pointed-out how putting the skis on the inside will help the drag of the car, seeing as this rack will surely not make it to production and I’m sure at that point Saab will suggest you put your skis on a roof rack. At that point we should ask them, “what about the increased drag?”
8. Swade, after you told Anthony Lo the part of the car you’re most excited about is the interior he says, “that’s great”. I was wondering if he noted that it’s the one part of the car he DIDN’T design!
Then again, I have a conspiracy theory that Anthony Lo actually had little to nothing to do with the design of this particular vehicle. I think the designers took certain design elements of the Aero-X he designed when they designed the exterior of this car in North America, then prepped-him on design elements for the show. That’s my conspiracy theory and I’m sticking to it.
9. I do like the driver-oriented “cockpit” which wraps around the driver. That is a traditional Saab element. It reminds me most of the 9000 interior, also the EV-1.
10. I like that they chose skiing videos for the display rather than jets. I was a bit overdosed on the Born From Jets thing.
11. No CD/DVD slot? I was hoping you could have brought your own music and tried-out the stereo system.
12. What, no HUD? For that matter, no SID? Please at least tell me they brought back the C900 feature of having the center vent blow outside air while the heater is on. That was a Saab safety feature (to keep you more alert) as well as the SID being more at eye level so you can keep your eyes on the road. So many innovative Saab safety features are being designed-out of their cars.
13. The glowing acrylic sounds cool, but what’s its purpose? I picked on ovloV’s “floating console” because it’s purely an aesthetic flourish. Seriously, it sounds like the whole form follows function Saab ethos are being thrown out the door with GM. Anthony Lo says that the green interior was a feature people really liked on the Aero-X. So what? It’s not functional.
14. Did Anthony Lo misunderstand your question regarding how the acrylic material will wear? You just threw out “March” and he then said that you will see another concept in March. Maybe he thought you had some inside info about what’s coming in March?
15. Scrolling through displays in the center of the speedo using the steering wheel controls seems the OPPOSITE of safe. Man, I was concerned about moving the SID to the instrument cluster and now they want to have people scrolling through displays on the speedo? Why don’t they allow you to text message through it, for crying out loud? Maybe show a movie on it?
I was thinking that they’d at least interlock it so that you can’t do so unless the car is stopped, but Mr. Lo pointed-out he can’t show you the feature unless the car is moving!
16. Saabs designed in Germany and America, designed by Chinese and American designers and made in Mexico do NOT seem to follow key design traits Saab has held dear nor pay attention to safety in the least. I’m sorry, I’m pretty disappointed by this concept. Is it a nice vehicle that will sell? Maybe. But is it a Saab? Almost certainly NOT.
17. Anthony Lo seems like a nice guy and is capable of designing cars, but I’m not sure he’s the guy for Saab. Doesn’t Scandinavia have any design schools? Why is GM hiring foreigners (and I’m not picking on Anthony Lo, Brian Nesbitt and Michael Simhoe included) to try their hand at emulating Scandinavian design? Hello? Rule #1: Form FOLLOWS Function.
“Hello? Rule #1: Form FOLLOWS Function.”
I agree you Gripen with the most of your thoughs. Let me point out one detail where form doesn´t follow function. Rearlights.
that they do not produce enough warm to keep the lights clean! They get snowy and finally frosted. So, noone is able to see you from behind if you are travelling dark time and snow is all around. Scandinavian design..
Using LEDs is effective and cool looking. But here in scandinavial where you drive through snowy roads, snow starts building on the back of a car (especially wagon – hatch, no probs). New cool lights are actually so cool
I wonder if Salomon skiiers didn´t notice it!?
Only foglight will remain clear on a SC!
http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/2082/dscf0005hv0.jpg
Gripen – As far as the speedo display…how is it less safe to have certain information directly in front of you instead of off to the side? It’s exactly like scrolling through stuff on the SID, only now, it’s right in front of your face instead of off to the right. That sounds safer to me.
Also – Wouldn’t it be nice if the 9-3 finally got this treatment?
Wait wait wait, I meant a coupe style, don’t start trashing the rest of the car because I know you all hate it. Focus on the number of doors!
1985 Gripen’s comments deserve a post of their own on the main page. Required reading for all Saab fans… and their current crop of designers and engineers, sadly.
I like it!
I think the 9-4x is a pretty solid vehicle and a pretty SAAB-ish SUV.
To me, the 9-7 shows that it’s pretty hard to port the SAAB persona to a larger vehicle. With this in mind, with the exception of the wish for a wrap-around front window, I think the 9-4 has the best of the SAAB persona.
But even then, I don’t think the SAAB persona is just copying earlier elements, but rather functional innovation with style rooted in function. A great example of this in the 9-4 is the rear lighting strip – I think it will be as distinctive to this Saab (and future Saabs) as the wrap-around window was.
Most importantly, we shouldn’t just weigh the 9-4 against previous Saab designs, but rather look at how the 9-4 fits in the market, and it’s probability of success. Of course we don’t know pricing at this point, but I think that the 9-4 will pretty well hit it’s design goal of attracting the premium-entry crossover/small SUV market. It’s easily more stylish than Ford Escapes and Honda Pilots (for example) and sure to be a better value for customers than Lexus RXs. This would be a nice comp for the Toyota Highlander or Nissan Rogue.
Finally, 2 things from prior posters:
1) Swade is right – the interior is superb.
2) To put it nicely, you’re being silly about the ethnicity and geography of Saab designers. It’s been proven extensively by other brands that design transcends both of these characteristics. As an example, for many years, Japanese cars have been designed in California design studios, and yet we don’t wonder if these designers are capable of representing the Toyota-ness or Honda-ness of these brands.
Gripen, some of your comments are valid, all are well made, but not all correct?
Point 1 – Wraparound screen is a form over funtion item for sure as it adds little to visability and if it is at extortionate cost, then leave it out.
Points 2 & 13 – totally agree
Point 11 – s’pose we’re in MP3 world nowadays – otherwise we might as well have a super-8 in there!
Point 15 – SID – I live with this every day….and I don’t care for it. I get a warning light in the speedo to tell me to look at the SID where it will then tell me in words something a light in the speedo area could have told me! The SID means you have 3 main zones to monitor, speedo, heat/entertainment and SID. By all means move the speedo functions to an SID and have just 2 zones, but SID currently adds nothing but ‘hollywood’ faces in the dark
SID is distraction. Also it’s not NOT an age-old Saab trait – only introduced in the 9-3!
Thoughtful critique though – this 9-4x has really ignited the debate as to whether Saab is backward or forward facing – I think the jury is still out!
Suddenly I’m madly in love with the 9-4X!
Such BS that ski rack. Big time designers, ever here of a ski bag? We toss our three pairs of skis and poles in it and pass it through the centre opening in the back seat of our 9-5. Voilà, no drag , no mess, no fuss. OK it’s a show car meant to impress the gallery but I wish they used the limited resources on more important issues like hybrid, diesel or even better, hybrid/diesel propulsion systems.
Jeff: when the SID was up near the window at least your peripheral vision could still be on the road. When you have to nod your head to look down into the instrument cluster and your eyes have to adjust to the difference in lighting it’s not as safe. You don’t even have the road in your peripheral view anymore.
A HUD would be the best solution, of course.
Jeff: Now you’re talkin’ crazy! We Americans don’t want to have anything to do with a sporty two-door coupe! They just wouldn’t sell here. I mean, take a look at the reception the Corvette got at the GM Style event.
MarkoA: thanks for the info. Living in SoCal I don’t get to see the problems you do living in such a cold climate. However, I doubt these lights on the 9-4X will get hot enough to self-defrost. They probably consist of LED technology rather than incandescent bulbs, which were far less energy-efficient, but a side effect was that the waste heat defrosted your taillights. Perhaps Saab should look into defroster coils for the lens assemblies or something. BTW, I’ve gone on the record in a comment elsewhere on this ‘blog as saying that I do like the red light pipe across the rear as I find that functional as well as aesthetically-pleasing.
Mark: thanks for the feedback. As for the wraparound window, it was originally designed to enhance visibility. Whether it does that or not is up in the air. As for the CD player, I was only joking anyway. It’s a concept car, I don’t expect a functional stereo. Regarding the SID, I guess the implementation could have been better but at least the idea to enhance safety was there. I really like the HUD idea and it’s not so sci-fi as other cars such as GM’s own Corvette already have it.
Gripen, yes the innovative path might be HUD as a possibility – BMW have taken a lead on this in eurpoe, but then again they are also ‘born from jets’!
Have you seen it in action? , I wonder how it feels in operation.
@1985 Gripen
Hi!
About your point 8:
I have the impression that it’s exactly the opposite: the exterior was designed in the US, by Michael Simcoe under Bryan Nesbitt, and the interior is the only thing with Lo’s hand…
Tiago do Vale: you might be right. I too believe that the exterior was designed in the U.S. by Simcoe under Nesbitt, but I believe the interior was designed by various design engineers at GM Europe. I think Lo’s hand in this was that he provided the inspiration for some of the design cues (as found on the Aero-X).
The press release claims that the GM Europe designers had input from the Saab Brand Center, but I wonder if it was a token amount, or more like the 30 Saab-Salomon extreme skiers who supposedly designed the ski rack system.
the ski rack is a neat idea, but i would never use it. snow would melt off the skis and onto everything, including the back of the folded-down rear seat. also boots get caked with snow, and pick up lots of dirt walking through the parking lot. in the spring, mud puddles are everywhere… sounds messy to me and dirt should not go anywhere near that gorgeous interior.
i’ll keep putting my snowboard on the roof and my dirty boots in a large plastic container that can be removed and washed. (my surfing wetsuit goes in there too….)
also with the interior ski rack in place, the car seats 4. why is the ski rack maxed out at 3 pairs?
a roof rack creates drag, but the one on my SS was quickly/simply removed.
i agree with gripen. keep the weight down, design smart, and remember: function function function function function form.
My goodness. Anthony Lo for president!
He was very generous with his time. I also like his ideas, and the fact that things are very deliberate with him.
Great video!
great video! Thanks for the new stuff
Anything heard or saw about the new 9-5?
anthony lo certainl knows his stuff.. justthe guy who shuld be taking saab design forward??
Nice car for a concept car; but I don’t ski, already have a 4×4 and agree with the others that say that some of the good innovations of that past are being designed out – I had forgotten about the fresh air vents. I purchased my 9000 in the last couple of years of production and my 9-5 (by the looks of it) at exactly the same point. I think that I will wait until the 9-4 Mk V before worrying about it. Good eye candy. Great video Steve – thanks. p.s. the theme of “it doesn’t have to be done in Sweden” concerns me… I would have preferred “it should be done in Sweden”?
Hmm… 9-4X website mentions HUD. The Facts -> Interior design: “The cockpit is wrapped around you – from the informative head-up display to the Clear Zone panel and the engine start switch between the seats.” So, is there some kind of HUD after all, and if there is, where..? But where is the cupholder!?
Amazing video for sure:
Lo’s a great great guy, and Swade… you rock!!!
RE: Point 12 ”Please at least tell me they brought back the C900 feature of having the center vent blow outside air while the heater is on. That was a Saab safety feature (to keep you more alert)”, my MY06 9-3SC certainly blows out cool-er air from the centre vents, albeit not very cool. I wouldn’t want an icey blast, but the slight diff is a useful safety feature.
By the way, does anyone else find their 9-3 takes an age to warm up? Mine takes 8-10 miles to reach target temp on a cold day.
With no heated seats as standard (a genuine Saab innovation that has been sacrificed to the expensive options list), this is a danger as the driver is shivering and can’t concentrate!
Could Saab seize the initiatve and re-instate essential safety equipment that has long since been removed to the options list such as:
-heated driver seat
-middle rear head restraint (is your middle passenger less important than the other two?)
-headlamp wipe/wash
These all used to be standard in the days of the 99/c900, but now worth ’000s on the options lists!
Come on Saab, is safety all about airbag counts or is preventative safety no longer important? Don’t follow, LEAD!
Indeed, there is something missing in the9-4x-presentation so far. A saab-spirit, and it has to do with safety.
(So, among the new things being presented in march might be the SAHR on all 3 passengers seats in the back … in all available production cars, except convertible, where there will be only 2 of those).
Just kidding, but i must agree with the belfast-slogan: Don’t follow, LEAD!
And GM, please set up your ethanol-filling-station-network, otherwise BioPower won’t sell outside of Sweden and Brasil.
I’m not convinced by HUD (it took me some time Head Up Display was ment). Isn’t HUD in contradiction with the nightpanel function in order to eliminate all too distracting lights in the car/dashboard.
I’m with Gripen (post 6) 100%. These are the logical things that made Saab special. A Saab without logic a Saab is an Opel with leather.
The wraparound windshield (or should we say extra convex?) is a great, logical feature. To be aerodynamic you can either flatten out the windshield, like the new Civic, and get all kinds of dash reflections, or you can curve it and keep it more upright, which I certainly perfer (or both I suppose if you really wanted to be jet-like). In addition to the reduced dash reflections, it makes for smaller A-pillars blocking your view versus the flatter windshield.
Great of Anthony Lo to spend such a considerable amount of time on the interview!
I must admit that the 9-4X is growing on me, and I like it better every time I see it, which is pretty often as I refresh this site every hour or so. But I would prefer to have the rear lights pointing downwards as on almost ALL previous Saabs. And that rear badge.
I find it perplexing that Saab hasn’t introduced HUD yet, but according to the 9-4x microsite, perhaps this is the time? With all that “Born from Jets” BS, they can’t offer HUD – a genuine “jetfighter” feature. And as someone else remarked, Corvette has had it for years, and BMW has it too.
@mark_belfast: Heated driver’s seat is standard on all Saabs in Norway and most other northern markets as far as I know, but I don’t know what sort of climate there is where you live.
The same goes for headlight washers, standard here at least. With xenon headlights, you can’t have wipers as they will ruin the clear headlight cover which would distort the beam.
wilfried: HUD improves driver safety by projecting important info onto the windshield so you don’t have to take your eyes off the road.
If anything, I’d think the green glowing acrylic display would be distracting and contrary to the night panel function. I’m guessing they’re eliminating the night panel, but I could be wrong.
Edonis: someone who frequents this site (I can’t remember who) owns an old Pontiac Aztek that has a HUD. I think someone else has a Pontiac Grand Am with one. It’s not really the stuff of Buck Rogers anymore. I can’t believe that Saab still doesn’t have them on production cars yet.
Is it just me, or is the 9-4x just not that innovative? It seems like a decent enough SUV, and the engine should be good (Ford also vaporwared an E-85 2.0L SUV a few days ago). The interior is o.k., but obviously not fully worked-out yet.
It really doesn’t stand-out from every other SUV, does it?
Where are the groundbreaking features?
I think that Anthony Lo is wrong when he claims that he can make any type of car anywhere. What he’s made is a Saab ersatz, sort of what you would get if you asked a child to draw a Saab. It’s got some Saab “design cues,” but it doesn’t have that driving desire to be the best car in its class.
The 9-4x is roughly the same shape, size, weight, horsepower and fuel economy as everyone of its direct competitors, and I have not seen anything to indicate that it will handle particularly well. If anything, the 20 inch wheels will make it a pig to drive (and not the kind of pig that likes mud).
I can overlook this one, since Saab is not an SUV brand, but the 9-1 and 9-5 had better be a lot closer to the cutting edge than this me-too effort.
Edonis, I should think so too – for some reason the UK has not had such standard equipment for along time (and there are many many days when I wish I had specified heated seats!. The accountants have clearly convinced the marketing people that it was an opportunity to charge people an extra cost rather than the kudos and credibility of leaving it as standard equipment and using the feature as a unique selling point (USP). Likewise the wipers.
It would be great if Saab GB had the courage to sieze the safety initiative again and re-instate this safety equip as standard. Ironically, if the Scandinavian cars have it, and the USA probably do, so it probably costs MORE to leave it off the UK spec cars since exceptions always cost more than standard production lines – bonkers.
Mark: I don’t know about newer Saabs, but my wife’s 2001 OG9-3 doesn’t have heated seats either. It does have headlight wipers though. Coming from a C900 where the heated seats were standard I was disappointed that the OG9-3 didn’t have the heated seats standard and since we were buying it CPO, I didn’t have the option either way. Even though we live in Southern California where it doesn’t get too cold, my wife, who always seems to be cold, complains about getting into her Saab in the morning and the leather seats are cold. She actually likes my cheap Chevy Impala more because the seats are cloth and don’t get as cold!
I think that dropping these standard features to option status was simply a cost-reduction process, but I’d much rather see them make seat heaters standard again instead of stupid rain-sensing wipers. Who needs rain sensing wipers, anyway?
Gripen, Swade said in his “9-4X will be good” post that one of the buttons near gearshift was for the nightpanel. So maybe they are not eliminating it after all. And who knows, maybe NP turns off or at least dims down that green glow on acrylics too?
Firstly Swade, thanks for the video and Anthony Lo was very generous with his time.
I feel that I do have to comment on the debate about Saab’s designed by Swedes. Scandinavians have a totally different approach to design, its always been ‘form follows function’ as already pointed out and, IMHO, a Scandinavian should be designing Saabs.
Scandinavian design is ‘cold’ ie function is key and its form just comes out of that functionality. Look at the beautiful job done on the original 9-5 before someone – aka Michael Mauer – buggered it up. The 9-5 screamed Saab and took Saab up to the next level. The 03 9-3SS was designed by the same guy with some Mauer bits tacked on at the last minute and what we have now, in the 9-4X, is a non-Scandinavian Saab. The only thing I am not keen on is the 9-4Xs lack of sloping lines – everything seems a little too ‘horizontal’ to me. Having said that, Saab sales are stagnant and maybe it takes a non-Scandinavian to take Saab to the next level – as much as I hate to say it.
This car seems to be attracting attention and what with a baby Saab coming in Geneva this year is shaping up to be awesome!
Few things I´ve been admiring about many smaller size SUV´s are mainly about functionality.
I´ve said it many times – adjustable rear seats! Very important. Possibility to enhance rear legroom if needed, or increase luggage space in trunk. Adjustable backrest also! Large hatch. Now 9-4 has small door (smaller window) and very high loading height. Just like Landrover Freelander 2. It´s not practical in any ways. Everybody who´s had c900 knows what I mean. There´s no need for sliding plates when opening and height is right.
Rear seats MUST fold down totally flat, otherwise – no, no. 9-3SC is bad example. It´s not practical. You cannot lay there big bulky items since they might even damage the backrest because it´s not flat.
That Salomon guy must´ve been on dope when making design ideas if they´d come up with that sort of boot on 9-4X.
I guess I´ll go back to garage and start working again on my 900. And keep my mouth shut.
brilliant video swade but i wonder exactly what happens at the SAAB brand centre?
Scandinavian design seems to mean only the look, nothing else. And even most of that is just plain talk. People here doesn´t design iceblocks for god´s sake.
If it was designed to be really used in here, there would be options like:
* heated windshield (like Ford has)
* heated windshield washers (Volvo´s got it)
* headlamp washers with wipers (!)
* electric interior heater standard
* engine block heater standard
* fuel operated cabin heater with remote control and programmable (SID) timer (like TiD´s)
* heated rear seat (Audi´s got it)
* heated steering wheel (I know, ridiculous, but oh so comfortable!)
* extra driving lights on the roofbars for bad conditions (Nissan X-trail)
* much more effective cabin heating system
* reverse lights on sides (like 9000 has)
* robust protection plate underneath the engine (c900´s got it – no need to be afraid driving over frosted snowblocks)
* doors like on C900 – you´ll keep your legs clean when getting out of a dirty car
* blowers to keep rear sidewindows clear from vapor (9000´s got it)
* Automatic transmission with winterdriving software (I think 9-5 has this option)
* fourwheel drive standard! (Important!)
* upper edge of doors and the edge of roof should be copied from c900 – when you´ll open the door, snow – water etc will not drop inside the car and on driver´s seat
* turning front fog lights standard…
I really could go on. All I have to do is to think what annoys me on these cars today. Especially on bad weather conditions, mostly during wintertime.
But these are really not for show, and nobody get´s interested if you´d show them on a car show. It´s lot more cooler to show nonfunctional ski holer and lights looking like iceblocks.
So, after all I´d say all the talk about being scandinavian designed is just talk.
And again, sorry for the venting!
Oh, I forgot from the list – hatch! It would keep the rear window clean of snow and stuff naturally. THose small rearwipers are freaking hilarious. Like the one on SC.
Great video. Thanks Swade!
Considering that this is only in concept form and Saab hasn’t even begun to divulge the tech that is in this car, people are being very negative and judgemental upon it’s reception. It’s just a concept car people, I for one am very excited about seeing GM give Saab some ground to creat truely beautiful products that scream Saab design. They really didn’t mention anything about the keyless entry system or the Start/Stop push button ignition which we know it has also. If this is a sign of things to come then I for one am very excited about the future of Saab!
Oh yeah, by the way think of the light pipes being like those tubular christmas rope lights you get from Lowes or K-mart not actual LED’s. These will give of some heat but not to much since they are low wattage.