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	<title>Comments on: Detroit Thoughts &#8211; pt 1</title>
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	<link>http://www.trollhattansaab.net/archives/2007/12/detroit-thoughts-pt-1.html</link>
	<description>Saab 9-1, 9-3, 9-4x, 9-5, 9-7x News</description>
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		<title>By: saabyurk (Ted Y)</title>
		<link>http://www.trollhattansaab.net/archives/2007/12/detroit-thoughts-pt-1.html#comment-33504</link>
		<dc:creator>saabyurk (Ted Y)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Dec 2007 13:22:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.trollhattansaab.net/archives/2007/12/detroit-thoughts-pt-1.html#comment-33504</guid>
		<description>I wish they would put as much money and effort into racing Saabs as they put into &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.cadillac.com/cadillacjsp/spotlight/teamcadillac/car/index.jsp&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;racing Cadillacs&lt;/a&gt;. I like the line &quot;Race what you sell.&quot; I just wish they would extend that thinking to Saab a little more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wish they would put as much money and effort into racing Saabs as they put into <a href="http://www.cadillac.com/cadillacjsp/spotlight/teamcadillac/car/index.jsp" rel="nofollow">racing Cadillacs</a>. I like the line &#8220;Race what you sell.&#8221; I just wish they would extend that thinking to Saab a little more.</p>
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		<title>By: swade</title>
		<link>http://www.trollhattansaab.net/archives/2007/12/detroit-thoughts-pt-1.html#comment-33498</link>
		<dc:creator>swade</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Dec 2007 11:58:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.trollhattansaab.net/archives/2007/12/detroit-thoughts-pt-1.html#comment-33498</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ll gladly take a crack at Caddy.  Part of my dislike is the styling, which I find positively pukeworthy.  Not for me, but good luck to those who like it.

Part of my dislike is for the money Caddy gets to develop and spread worldwide to markets that don&#039;t need it.  Some of that money could have landed us a 9-5 already.  I honestly believe that, and I&#039;d much rather see that.

The other part of my dislike is what Caddy represents to me - very conspicuous consumption.  It&#039;d blow Clarkson&#039;s cockometer off the map in most instances.  Some people like that, but I&#039;m not one of them.

Funny though, as that&#039;s what Cadillac&#039;s supposed to be.  Why don&#039;t they take it to the limits and leave it in America, where it belongs.  

Cadillac has never been a success outside its own market and evidence seems to indicate that this latest push is failing as well.

It&#039;s well-covered that perhaps GM has too many brands.  Isn&#039;t the effort to expand these brands into markets where they&#039;re not going to succeed just compounding the problem?  There&#039;s no economies of scale in having to develop a brand from scratch in 30, 40 or 50 new markets, regardless of its name.

Keep Caddies in the US.  

Having said all that, hopefully I&#039;ll get a chance to drive one, or ride in one next month.  Then I&#039;ll feel more qualified to say all this.

------

I&#039;ve heard a guy at Saab USA say a similar thing to that said by Frank A - if Caddy do well it&#039;s good for Saab.  Actually, the guy at Saab said it more like &quot;GM can&#039;t be considered successful without Cadillac being successful&quot;

That scares me, because it makes Cadillac&#039;s success almost seem like an obsession for GM&#039;s head honchos.  If that&#039;s really the case then we&#039;ve got some problems.

Saab need some investment, not crumbs from Caddy&#039;s table.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll gladly take a crack at Caddy.  Part of my dislike is the styling, which I find positively pukeworthy.  Not for me, but good luck to those who like it.</p>
<p>Part of my dislike is for the money Caddy gets to develop and spread worldwide to markets that don&#8217;t need it.  Some of that money could have landed us a 9-5 already.  I honestly believe that, and I&#8217;d much rather see that.</p>
<p>The other part of my dislike is what Caddy represents to me &#8211; very conspicuous consumption.  It&#8217;d blow Clarkson&#8217;s cockometer off the map in most instances.  Some people like that, but I&#8217;m not one of them.</p>
<p>Funny though, as that&#8217;s what Cadillac&#8217;s supposed to be.  Why don&#8217;t they take it to the limits and leave it in America, where it belongs.  </p>
<p>Cadillac has never been a success outside its own market and evidence seems to indicate that this latest push is failing as well.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s well-covered that perhaps GM has too many brands.  Isn&#8217;t the effort to expand these brands into markets where they&#8217;re not going to succeed just compounding the problem?  There&#8217;s no economies of scale in having to develop a brand from scratch in 30, 40 or 50 new markets, regardless of its name.</p>
<p>Keep Caddies in the US.  </p>
<p>Having said all that, hopefully I&#8217;ll get a chance to drive one, or ride in one next month.  Then I&#8217;ll feel more qualified to say all this.</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve heard a guy at Saab USA say a similar thing to that said by Frank A &#8211; if Caddy do well it&#8217;s good for Saab.  Actually, the guy at Saab said it more like &#8220;GM can&#8217;t be considered successful without Cadillac being successful&#8221;</p>
<p>That scares me, because it makes Cadillac&#8217;s success almost seem like an obsession for GM&#8217;s head honchos.  If that&#8217;s really the case then we&#8217;ve got some problems.</p>
<p>Saab need some investment, not crumbs from Caddy&#8217;s table.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff</title>
		<link>http://www.trollhattansaab.net/archives/2007/12/detroit-thoughts-pt-1.html#comment-33497</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Dec 2007 11:28:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.trollhattansaab.net/archives/2007/12/detroit-thoughts-pt-1.html#comment-33497</guid>
		<description>I hit Post too quickly.

...

That isn&#039;t to say that I&#039;m not happy that other people agree with me and can see past their bias.  I mean, jeez, if you don&#039;t like Cadillacs, that&#039;s cool, I understand, they&#039;re not for everybody, but don&#039;t say they make crappy cars, because they most certainly do not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hit Post too quickly.</p>
<p>&#8230;</p>
<p>That isn&#8217;t to say that I&#8217;m not happy that other people agree with me and can see past their bias.  I mean, jeez, if you don&#8217;t like Cadillacs, that&#8217;s cool, I understand, they&#8217;re not for everybody, but don&#8217;t say they make crappy cars, because they most certainly do not.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff</title>
		<link>http://www.trollhattansaab.net/archives/2007/12/detroit-thoughts-pt-1.html#comment-33495</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Dec 2007 11:21:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.trollhattansaab.net/archives/2007/12/detroit-thoughts-pt-1.html#comment-33495</guid>
		<description>Kroum - That was a bit of a potshot at Texans, there.  I know I sure as hell wouldn&#039;t want a wimpy-ass teatotler of an SUV, if I had to drive one, I&#039;d want a big honkin&#039; V8.

But that&#039;s just me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kroum &#8211; That was a bit of a potshot at Texans, there.  I know I sure as hell wouldn&#8217;t want a wimpy-ass teatotler of an SUV, if I had to drive one, I&#8217;d want a big honkin&#8217; V8.</p>
<p>But that&#8217;s just me.</p>
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		<title>By: Kroum</title>
		<link>http://www.trollhattansaab.net/archives/2007/12/detroit-thoughts-pt-1.html#comment-33482</link>
		<dc:creator>Kroum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Dec 2007 04:26:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.trollhattansaab.net/archives/2007/12/detroit-thoughts-pt-1.html#comment-33482</guid>
		<description>I have to agree with Jeff. Although Cadillacs are not my type of car, they&#039;re well appointed, well made and offer some neat and powerful engines. This is especially true for the new models - dare I say they even look more distinctive that the pre-facelift Saab 9-3? I have no love for the brand, but enough respect.

Also, I tend to disagree with the conclusion that just because GM is selling big trucks with gas-guzzling V8s this is necessarily the future of Saab. GM is a diverse, global corporation that wants to cater to every market niche. Perhaps Texans don&#039;t give a rat&#039;s ass how much a gallon costs and all they want is their V8 400 hp blinged-out pickups and SUVs. As market dictates, if there is demand for a product, there will be supply, too.

In a somewhat silly comparison, VW produces vehicles as far separated from each other as the Bugatti Veyron and the VW Lupo. One runs out of gas quicker than a road train, the other one can probably last on a tank for weeks on end. But this does not mean all VW products are gas-guzzling monsters.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to agree with Jeff. Although Cadillacs are not my type of car, they&#8217;re well appointed, well made and offer some neat and powerful engines. This is especially true for the new models &#8211; dare I say they even look more distinctive that the pre-facelift Saab 9-3? I have no love for the brand, but enough respect.</p>
<p>Also, I tend to disagree with the conclusion that just because GM is selling big trucks with gas-guzzling V8s this is necessarily the future of Saab. GM is a diverse, global corporation that wants to cater to every market niche. Perhaps Texans don&#8217;t give a rat&#8217;s ass how much a gallon costs and all they want is their V8 400 hp blinged-out pickups and SUVs. As market dictates, if there is demand for a product, there will be supply, too.</p>
<p>In a somewhat silly comparison, VW produces vehicles as far separated from each other as the Bugatti Veyron and the VW Lupo. One runs out of gas quicker than a road train, the other one can probably last on a tank for weeks on end. But this does not mean all VW products are gas-guzzling monsters.</p>
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		<title>By: Frank A</title>
		<link>http://www.trollhattansaab.net/archives/2007/12/detroit-thoughts-pt-1.html#comment-33469</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank A</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Dec 2007 00:14:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.trollhattansaab.net/archives/2007/12/detroit-thoughts-pt-1.html#comment-33469</guid>
		<description>Jeff like you I am also a Saab AND Cadillac fan. I have driven the new CTS and it is as good as advertised. The thing folks have to remember is that Cadillac is a cash cow for GM, especially the Escalade. If Cadillac does well that is good for Saab as GM needs to make money on all of it&#039;s brands.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeff like you I am also a Saab AND Cadillac fan. I have driven the new CTS and it is as good as advertised. The thing folks have to remember is that Cadillac is a cash cow for GM, especially the Escalade. If Cadillac does well that is good for Saab as GM needs to make money on all of it&#8217;s brands.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff</title>
		<link>http://www.trollhattansaab.net/archives/2007/12/detroit-thoughts-pt-1.html#comment-33467</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Dec 2007 23:08:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.trollhattansaab.net/archives/2007/12/detroit-thoughts-pt-1.html#comment-33467</guid>
		<description>Some moron printed a picture of a CTS coupe rendering (rather than the actual CTS) in a car ad.  THAT&#039;S hope.  A CTS coupe would almost certainly mean an eventual 9-3 coupe, because GM likes to make sure that all of it&#039;s marques offer the same exact things. :p

Swade - That 6.2L V8 was already offered in the GMC Denali, a Tahoe variant.  I think that makes it ok that they put it in the Tahoe, since they&#039;re variants of eachother.  This same thinking begat the 9-7X Aero, which I think is an awesome SUV, as far as SUV&#039;s go.

MarkoA - Anyone that says &quot;just another GM piece of crap&quot; doesn&#039;t know what they&#039;re talking about, anyway.  At this point, GM as a whole is definitely the most reliable, overall, of the Big 3, and their cars are much, much nicer than any comparable Ford or Chrysler.  Actually, &quot;doesn&#039;t know what they&#039;re talking about&quot; is too harsh.  Your friend can&#039;t move past the 80s and 90s.  GM cars as a whole were pretty crappy then.

RHS - &quot;Inexplicably expensive, unimaginatively designed, cheaply appointed&quot;

They&#039;re expensive because they&#039;re worth it, the DTS and STS are old and are on their ways out and will be replaced in the next few years by a single, new model so it&#039;s not fair to trash their designs, and I have no idea how anyone can call the CTS&#039;s design &quot;unimaginative&quot;, and I don&#039;t really know what you mean by &quot;cheaply appointed&quot;.  Every Cadillac I&#039;ve ever been in has been comfortable as hell and has had great bits of trim, especially the newer ones.

I don&#039;t try to hide the fact that I love Cadillac, and I don&#039;t expect everyone else here to hide their disdain for it, but you&#039;ve gotta have a better reason to hate them then &quot;I don&#039;t like how they look&quot;.  That&#039;s entirely personal taste.  Give me a better reason.  Also, don&#039;t you tell me Cadillacs are obscene, have you seen recent BMWs?  THAT&#039;S obscenity.

One more thing, dammit, I&#039;ve ridden in an Escalade, and it was soooo comfortable.  The first-gens were kinda crappy, but all the other ones serve their purpose well.  And I&#039;m tired of hearing about how &quot;blinged-out&quot; Escas are.  So it&#039;s got a chrome grille.  It&#039;s no more ostentatious than a new 9-5 or a new BMW.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some moron printed a picture of a CTS coupe rendering (rather than the actual CTS) in a car ad.  THAT&#8217;S hope.  A CTS coupe would almost certainly mean an eventual 9-3 coupe, because GM likes to make sure that all of it&#8217;s marques offer the same exact things. :p</p>
<p>Swade &#8211; That 6.2L V8 was already offered in the GMC Denali, a Tahoe variant.  I think that makes it ok that they put it in the Tahoe, since they&#8217;re variants of eachother.  This same thinking begat the 9-7X Aero, which I think is an awesome SUV, as far as SUV&#8217;s go.</p>
<p>MarkoA &#8211; Anyone that says &#8220;just another GM piece of crap&#8221; doesn&#8217;t know what they&#8217;re talking about, anyway.  At this point, GM as a whole is definitely the most reliable, overall, of the Big 3, and their cars are much, much nicer than any comparable Ford or Chrysler.  Actually, &#8220;doesn&#8217;t know what they&#8217;re talking about&#8221; is too harsh.  Your friend can&#8217;t move past the 80s and 90s.  GM cars as a whole were pretty crappy then.</p>
<p>RHS &#8211; &#8220;Inexplicably expensive, unimaginatively designed, cheaply appointed&#8221;</p>
<p>They&#8217;re expensive because they&#8217;re worth it, the DTS and STS are old and are on their ways out and will be replaced in the next few years by a single, new model so it&#8217;s not fair to trash their designs, and I have no idea how anyone can call the CTS&#8217;s design &#8220;unimaginative&#8221;, and I don&#8217;t really know what you mean by &#8220;cheaply appointed&#8221;.  Every Cadillac I&#8217;ve ever been in has been comfortable as hell and has had great bits of trim, especially the newer ones.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t try to hide the fact that I love Cadillac, and I don&#8217;t expect everyone else here to hide their disdain for it, but you&#8217;ve gotta have a better reason to hate them then &#8220;I don&#8217;t like how they look&#8221;.  That&#8217;s entirely personal taste.  Give me a better reason.  Also, don&#8217;t you tell me Cadillacs are obscene, have you seen recent BMWs?  THAT&#8217;S obscenity.</p>
<p>One more thing, dammit, I&#8217;ve ridden in an Escalade, and it was soooo comfortable.  The first-gens were kinda crappy, but all the other ones serve their purpose well.  And I&#8217;m tired of hearing about how &#8220;blinged-out&#8221; Escas are.  So it&#8217;s got a chrome grille.  It&#8217;s no more ostentatious than a new 9-5 or a new BMW.</p>
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		<title>By: max</title>
		<link>http://www.trollhattansaab.net/archives/2007/12/detroit-thoughts-pt-1.html#comment-33463</link>
		<dc:creator>max</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Dec 2007 21:51:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.trollhattansaab.net/archives/2007/12/detroit-thoughts-pt-1.html#comment-33463</guid>
		<description>just a note to MarkS....Saab Nashua North actually took over the Chevrolet, dealership.  The owner Bob Lajoie still holds the Saab franchise and has alot of new and late model saabs in stock.  So don&#039;t despair at least not yet!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>just a note to MarkS&#8230;.Saab Nashua North actually took over the Chevrolet, dealership.  The owner Bob Lajoie still holds the Saab franchise and has alot of new and late model saabs in stock.  So don&#8217;t despair at least not yet!</p>
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		<title>By: MarkS.</title>
		<link>http://www.trollhattansaab.net/archives/2007/12/detroit-thoughts-pt-1.html#comment-33462</link>
		<dc:creator>MarkS.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Dec 2007 21:45:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.trollhattansaab.net/archives/2007/12/detroit-thoughts-pt-1.html#comment-33462</guid>
		<description>I love it.......&quot;vehicular-obscenity score&quot; indeed! If such records were kept, Escalade owners might have to register at the town hall!

;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love it&#8230;&#8230;.&#8221;vehicular-obscenity score&#8221; indeed! If such records were kept, Escalade owners might have to register at the town hall!</p>
<p> <img src='http://www.trollhattansaab.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: RHS</title>
		<link>http://www.trollhattansaab.net/archives/2007/12/detroit-thoughts-pt-1.html#comment-33461</link>
		<dc:creator>RHS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Dec 2007 21:31:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.trollhattansaab.net/archives/2007/12/detroit-thoughts-pt-1.html#comment-33461</guid>
		<description>In Tennessee for Christmas.  Convenient time to drop in to a local dealership to have a service-recall (a software update) performed on my 2007 9-3 2.0T 6-speed SC.  The dealership sells Cadillacs and SAABs.  Very polite.  Quick service.  Washed the car.  Two SAABs in the show room, muscled aside by a herd of Cadillacs, none of which any sensible person would want.  Inexplicably expensive, unimaginatively designed, cheaply appointed.  Several monotonous sedans.  A ludicrous golf cart.  A severely pimped-up truck -- a black-and-bling Escalade -- for $70,000 (US) and change.  A shipment of additional Escalades being unloaded outside.  The Escalades, being light trucks, had no EPA fuel-economy rating, no yearly cost-of-fuel estimate, no vehicular-obscenity score.  The SAABs -- looking neat, trim, swift, conscientious, and clever in their appointed corner -- said nothing, no doubt embarrassed by their cousins&#039; dress, demeanor, and gluttonous carbonaceous appetites.  What could The General be thinking?  (Does The General think at all anymore?)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In Tennessee for Christmas.  Convenient time to drop in to a local dealership to have a service-recall (a software update) performed on my 2007 9-3 2.0T 6-speed SC.  The dealership sells Cadillacs and SAABs.  Very polite.  Quick service.  Washed the car.  Two SAABs in the show room, muscled aside by a herd of Cadillacs, none of which any sensible person would want.  Inexplicably expensive, unimaginatively designed, cheaply appointed.  Several monotonous sedans.  A ludicrous golf cart.  A severely pimped-up truck &#8212; a black-and-bling Escalade &#8212; for $70,000 (US) and change.  A shipment of additional Escalades being unloaded outside.  The Escalades, being light trucks, had no EPA fuel-economy rating, no yearly cost-of-fuel estimate, no vehicular-obscenity score.  The SAABs &#8212; looking neat, trim, swift, conscientious, and clever in their appointed corner &#8212; said nothing, no doubt embarrassed by their cousins&#8217; dress, demeanor, and gluttonous carbonaceous appetites.  What could The General be thinking?  (Does The General think at all anymore?)</p>
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