Comments on: Saab and the USA

By: Swade

Swade — Sun, 06 May 2007 22:03:40 +0000

^^^^ and there is a case in point as to why Saab should ignore the US market in designing its cars.

That sort of instant, throwaway attitude is so far from what I understand the Swedish view on life to be that the two are almost at completely opposite poles.

Build the best Swedish designed cars you can, regardless of what a particular market thinks of them. How SaabUSA want to market them is up to them.

If only GM could give them that freedom and if only they had the cohunas to take it and run with it.

Sorry, but the “what have you done for me lately” line just gets to me.

By: Comfortably Numb

Comfortably Numb — Sun, 06 May 2007 21:21:15 +0000

Just finished up reading the posts here and flicked on the tube. Reporter Tim Russert interviewing the retired Lee Iacocca from Chrysler. (UFC Ultimate Fighter was a repeat). 30 seconds into watching the interview Mr. Iacocca, when asked his opinion by Mr. Russert, if he thought Japanese cars are more reliable than US brands, Mr. Iacocca replied “The price of admission into the US market is reliability”. Hmmmm…
I’m American. I surf the net, instant/text message, flick the tube, nuke my food, speed to work, run here, run there, I run everywhere. I want a good value for my hard-earned dollar. Your warranty is great but I just don’t have all that spare time to spend at your dealership while my “reliable” car is once again in need of repair. Maybe your cars are not the most expensive in the luxury marketplace but they cost more than a Toyota and are much less reliable and cost almost as much as a BMW or Audi and are no where near as luxurious. So who are you Saab? Yes, I know you are from Sweden and are Born from Jets and back in the day you had a really unique product in the 900T convertible and the hatchback, but as an American, I want to know “What have you done for me lately”?
You insult my intelligence with the 9-2. Value? Sure, when it had the price tag of a Subaru. You again insult me by assuming I would so easily hand over more of my hard earned dollars to you ,than Subaru….just for your badge. The 97x? Yes, it rides nice when compared to the base GM mothership. Remember how hard I work for my money though? Your badge? Shame on you again. The base 9-3 sedan……hmmmm…looks like a Buick. Let us not EVEN talk about the 9-5. Luxury Sedan? This is America baby. Do not assault my senses again and think I’ll buy into that one as well. 250 9-5s sold in the US last month? The number says it all. We do not want them. I can find so much more value, luxury, reliability (there’s that word again) for my dollar just a mile down the road at the BMW dealership. And I won’t be driving anything that looks remotely close to a Buick.
You were once unique so I was willing to pay a premium for that state of independence. You are no longer. Now the only thing I find unique about your brand is that you have managed to survive this long while being so out of tune with what I as an American want and am willing to pay for.
My grandmother had a way with words. When she saw someone who was afraid to commit or move forward or put forth an effort or make a stand, she would say “Sh*t, or get off the pot.” Saab, General Motors…I say to you, “Sh*t, or get off the pot.” Make a stand or turn your back and go home. Both of you.
Oh yes, and Born From Jets? Please, we were all Born From Sperm but rarely discuss it with another. We as adults, move on to the future. Grow up Saab. Come with us into the future. It’s a nice place. Sure, maybe it’s not always safe. Wait, you have me protected, right? I’m independent and adventurous though. I’m not afraid of what is coming around the corner. Safety is great and thank you for all the hard work you put into protecting me. I can tell you though, as a friend, that is not what I focus on all day when I’m driving. I look around the interior of my car and like it to be appealing to my senses. All of them. I envision myself staring at the road ahead through the windshield of my well designed and crafted, intelligent, reliable vehicle and congratulate myself for how smart I am for purchasing such a great car. I rarely envision my face smashing into an airbag. Stop selling the negative. I’m not paying $40,000.00 + for anything that I can envision myself crashing in.
Give me another reason to buy one of your cars. Sadly though, in America, we have a short attention span. Don’t take too long to find an answer because in my mind. I have already crossed you off my list and am moving on to the next dealer or website. Click. It’s that easy these days. This is America. It’s who we are. We are all trying to take a sip out of a firehose. It takes less time. More for less. Value in relation to the return on my investment of precious time and resources.
So anyway, “The price of admission into the US market is reliability.” Yes Saab, in order to even show your face at the dance you must be reliable. You are not, so you are denied access to the dance. It may be too little, too late to fix and turn this mess around. Another way to get into the dance, albeit through the back door, is to be exciting. Make some noise if you must. Hmmmm…the Aero X. Just might do it. I hear television, internet and radio are great ways of getting your message across to the American public these days. Will get us noticed again. Maybe get us on the dancefloor so we can strut our stuff. Do we have any stuff left? Should be enough time to fix our quality issues, no? So then we would have Excitement and Reliability. We already have Safety nailed. Let’s move forward. Fuel efficient? That too. Performance? Got it. Value? Well, if the car is exciting and reliable and efficient and fast and safe, heck, I as an American, will pay a premium for that as the product would represent great value.
Let this not be the last dance just before the lights are turned off. The sales numbers in the US are worse than they appear. Brand Loyalty? There is none unless it is earned. Save the folks who can now own a Saab because of the GM discount through their employer, and GM fleet business, and GM Employee Pricing in 06, who have we attracted to the brand? Stand alone, with no help from the General. What number of former Saab loyalists have grown with the times and moved on to better things?
We can knock GM all we want for their unwelcome design influence, and I agree, but they are the lifeline keeping this thing called Saab alive. Sell your Soul and there is a price that must always be paid. Question is, can we get it back once bartered? Do we want it back? Are we in any position now to cut the chord?

Sh*t or get off the pot. Let’s turn this Saab story into one that a dad like me, trying to sell cars like yours would be proud to read to his kid. The moral of the story would be to “Finish Well”. Ready? Steady? GO!!!!!! Please….

By: sam

sam — Sat, 05 May 2007 14:46:53 +0000

A geography follow up: Utah and Wyoming have a combined area of 473,235 km2, as compared to 449,964 km2 in Sweden. The combined population is 2,726,951 compared to 9,113,257 in Sweden (all figures from Wikipedia) One Saab dealer in Utah and Wyoming combined compared to ?? Saab dealers in Sweden.

Or the UK, with 244,820 km2 and a population of 60,609,155. Same size as Wyoming with 121 times as many people (Ooh, way too crowded!)

Sorry, slow afternoon at work.

By: sam

sam — Sat, 05 May 2007 14:08:27 +0000

Lots of good comments and differing perspectives. A few of my own thoughts:

EggsnGrits, you have it easy in Tennessee. In Utah we have one Saab dealer in Salt Lake, with the next closest being in Denver and Las Vegas, about an 8 to 9 hour drive at freeway speeds. One dealer in a state of 2.23 million people and 84,876 sq mi(219,887 km²). Wyoming, where I grew up, has about half a million residents for an area of 97,818 sq mi
(253,348 km²). The closest Saab dealer is in Denver, a five hour drive on the freeway. There are dozens of U.S. and Japanese, and some European dealerships in both of these states, by the way.

Swade, living in Australia, understands about a large, sparsely-populated country, but I doubt that many of the European readers do. Americans outside of the large metropolitan areas of the American West have no opportunity to purchase Saabs.

American taste in cars is definitely different that that of other countries, for the reasons already outlined above. Most large Japanese manufacturers have design staff to produce models that specifically cater to American preferences. European manufacturers don’t do this as much. But Americans that buy European brands generally want them specifically because of their European attributes. That is also the appeal of Saab, I think. But it isn’t a mass-market appeal.

Lack of AWD is a big disadvantage for Saab. I bought my first Saab back in 1979 when it was one of the few cars with front wheel drive, and Saabs had a reputation for getting around good in the snow. Nowadays, almost every car is either front- or all-wheel-drive, so Saabs are nothing special in the snow anymore. Now people buy SUVs or Subarus to take skiing, rather than Saabs. That would be a big help, especially in the part of the country with long winters. (I am hoping to get an AWD 9-3 station wagon when my current lease is up.)

And lastly, Saab’s quality reputation could stand some improvement. Honda and Toyota set the quality standard in the USA, and it is a very high standard, regardless of what you might think of their model offerings. When you pay a premium for a Saab compared to a Camry or an Accord, you expect for the quality to be comparable.

By: DenverAero

DenverAero — Sat, 05 May 2007 13:17:28 +0000

I very much agree with Greg on the mountains. Saab is getting killed by not offering AWD. Colorado historically has been a Saab hotbed, and still is, because people here are individualistic; they like the practical features of Saab design (bring back the hatch!) and we need power to get up mountain passes. Saab always gave you it all, and decent mpg. The model age and 4-cylinder definitely hurt. And personally, I’m forlorn over the fact you buy a Pontiac Soltice with my damn engine in it. What a crime.

By: Scott G

Scott G — Sat, 05 May 2007 10:21:14 +0000

Since this column is about “Saab and the USA” and that’s where I live, I thought my thinking about buying a Saab might be appropriate. I’m going to buy a new car this year and have the choice narrowed down to either a 2008 Saab 9-3 Aero or a 2008 CTS. I’ve owned Cadillacs but never a Saab (I try to buy GM vehicles – my last non-GM was a 1997 BMW 3-series). I want a four-door sport sedan with good handling, automatic transmission, 0-60 of 7 seconds or better, with a decent sized back seat and trunk, and luxury features. Specifically, heated leather seats with memory, good stereo with an auxiliary audio input, rainsense wipers, Onstar, fold-down rear seat, universal home remote and rear parking assist. In an earlier post someone mentioned a Malibu instead of a Saab. The problem is, the Malibu, Saturn Aura, Pontiac G6 and Buick LaCrosse can’t be ordered with all these items. That narrows it down to the 9-3, 9-5 or the CTS. Although I like the size of the 9-5, buying a $40,000 car with a four cylinder engine isn’t what most Americans want, even though 260HP and 258 lb-ft of torque is nice. Also, I think the interior of the 9-3 is nicer, but not as nice as the new CTS. I lean more toward having rear-wheel drive instead of front-wheel drive because having better weight distribution and having the front wheels only doing the steering make the car handle better. From what I’ve read, the 9-3 ReAxs helps a lot. I haven’t driven one yet, because I want to drive the new CTS and 9-3 back-to-back for comparison. I’m hoping Saab won’t wait to long to offer the AWD and the “Black Turbo” 280hp motor (same as Opel Vectra OPC motor?). Having AWD would eliminate the FWD, RWD issue. I also wonder about the resale or trade-in value of the Saab given it’s less popular in the U.S. versus the CTS. Although the 9-3 has slightly less interior room than the CTS (rear leg room and shoulder room), I’m surprised the 9-3 has the larger trunk (15 cu.ft. versus 12.5). Two other reasons I’m thinking about the 9-3. One, equipped the same, it should be about $5000 less than the CTS, and two, I might take a vacation in Sweden to pick it up and let Saab pay my airfare. I’d love to hear from 9-3 owners who may have looked at the same comparison, and why they bought the Saab.

By: Frank A

Frank A — Sat, 05 May 2007 05:42:15 +0000

eggs, great comments. I don’t think folks in other parts of the world realize how competitive the US market is. We have a lot of choice and we expect our cars to be reliable. This is the main reason Renault, Alfa etc failed in this market. When the gas crunch hit in the 70′s the Japanese companies had reliable fuel efficient cars to sell. The European manufactures could not touch the Japanese companies in regards to quality. Honda and Toyota in particular may make some boring cars but they run forever. Americans generally will not put up with poor quality just to drive something “special”. As eggs mentioned the lack of dealership coverage hurts SAAB tremendously. The average buyer is not going to drive 2 hours to get their oil changed.

By: Jon

Jon — Sat, 05 May 2007 01:35:01 +0000

I dont think of SSAb as being dumbbed down, I think of the brand as being “diluted” to appeal to a broad market. I have said before and I say it again, how do SAAB sell more cars with out losing their identity?

The c900 did not have a broad appeal no matter how much we like it. Is that a bad thing? I am guessing that for us the answer is no and for a SAAB sales person the answer is yes…

By: Ted Y

Ted Y — Fri, 04 May 2007 15:15:51 +0000

I see a lot of mentions above of the c900. All I can add is , after looking at the “Silver Sled”, please Saab, make another car like that! I agree that AWD is a must, but otherwise I think Saab should stay FWD for the reasons Kaz mentioned in the “Saab Vs BMW coming soon…” article in which he finished with “I love my Saab And it loves me ” Couldn’t agree more.

By: Greg Abbott

Greg Abbott — Fri, 04 May 2007 13:23:48 +0000

The lack of AWD is killing Saab in the U.S. – it’s no accident that the strongest Saab markets are also the areas that get the most snow in the winter. FWD was the key selling point for Saab in the 1960′s. But today Subaru and Audi are eating into Saab’s winter-handling advantage in the snow and ski areas.

The flip side to that is that FWD is a positive disadvantage in the rest of the U.S. market. BMW in particular cleans up in California, Texas, Florida, and the rest of the Sun Belt because of the superior driving dynamics of RWD.

No AWD to be competitive in the Snow Belt, and no RWD to be competitive in the Sun Belt is a real problem in the U.S. market.

(Notice that AWD fixes both problems — improving both perceived winter traction in the North and performance-at-the-limit in the South)

Saabs do have some comparative advantages from a U.S. perspective. Saabs are great long-distance cruisers. Absolutely the best seats in the industry (I don’t know why Saab don’t advertise about the seats — seat comfort is a huge, huge issue for cars and it’s been a Saab advantage for decades. I realize that an average focus group is not going to rate seat quality as a criteria influencing a decision to purchase, but OTOH virtually everyone who sits in a Saab for the first time says or at least thinks, “hey, great seats!”).

Also the large, flat torque curve you get from turbocharging also fits U.S. driving preferences, especially now that turbo lag and torque steer have been substantially reduced.

But AWD can’t get here fast enough. Assuming that Saab doesn’t overprice AWD as an option, I’ll bet as many as 50 percent of Saabs sold here in the U.S. will be AWD.

The perceived reliability problem is a real one, and it’s a problem for Saab because it doesn’t sell enough cars in this market to overcome the perception.

But mostly reliability is a secondary obstacle for an American considering Saab – if the car is compelling Americans will buy it (e.g., the classic 900 in the mid-80′s). OTOH if Saab is another “me, too” near-luxury car, consumers will minimize their risk and buy an Acura or Infiniti.