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	<title>Comments on: Competition Only</title>
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	<link>http://www.trollhattansaab.net/archives/2007/02/competition_onl.html</link>
	<description>Saab 9-1, 9-3, 9-4x, 9-5, 9-7x News</description>
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		<title>By: sethsev7n</title>
		<link>http://www.trollhattansaab.net/archives/2007/02/competition_onl.html#comment-8941</link>
		<dc:creator>sethsev7n</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Feb 2007 11:36:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://s18881.gridserver.com/archives/1853#comment-8941</guid>
		<description>Sorry to disagree with you guys, but I don&#039;t see Acura and the other Asian brands being competition to Saab.. VW, maybe, but people who buy european stay european, and same goes for the people who buy Asian.

I think Saab is right on when they defined their marketplace being BMW, Merc, Audi, and Volvo. Saabs are definately appealing to younger new car buyers from families who own BMWs and Audis.. they are looking for an a european alternative that fits the class of luxury but isnt as flashy as BMW and more interesting than Audi.. and Saab is a smart choice. I don&#039;t mind Saab stepping up the price of their vehicles a bit, they used to be more expensive anyways. I don&#039;t think their target market is going to care either, but their interior quality MUST improve, otherwise they&#039;ll always be on the losing side competing with the rest of europe&#039;s luxe brands.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry to disagree with you guys, but I don&#8217;t see Acura and the other Asian brands being competition to Saab.. VW, maybe, but people who buy european stay european, and same goes for the people who buy Asian.</p>
<p>I think Saab is right on when they defined their marketplace being BMW, Merc, Audi, and Volvo. Saabs are definately appealing to younger new car buyers from families who own BMWs and Audis.. they are looking for an a european alternative that fits the class of luxury but isnt as flashy as BMW and more interesting than Audi.. and Saab is a smart choice. I don&#8217;t mind Saab stepping up the price of their vehicles a bit, they used to be more expensive anyways. I don&#8217;t think their target market is going to care either, but their interior quality MUST improve, otherwise they&#8217;ll always be on the losing side competing with the rest of europe&#8217;s luxe brands.</p>
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		<title>By: Larry</title>
		<link>http://www.trollhattansaab.net/archives/2007/02/competition_onl.html#comment-8940</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Feb 2007 22:08:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://s18881.gridserver.com/archives/1853#comment-8940</guid>
		<description>I just bought my first Saab (a 9-3 2.0t) after driving a Camry for 6 years.  I definitely wanted a step up and did not consider the Saab to be competing against the Camry.  I shopped it agains an Audi A4 and Lexus IS 250 AWD.  I did consider a hybrid Camry but was disappointed when I drove it.  If Saab could distinguish itself in the US with flex fuel or hybrid, it could capture tremendous market share.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just bought my first Saab (a 9-3 2.0t) after driving a Camry for 6 years.  I definitely wanted a step up and did not consider the Saab to be competing against the Camry.  I shopped it agains an Audi A4 and Lexus IS 250 AWD.  I did consider a hybrid Camry but was disappointed when I drove it.  If Saab could distinguish itself in the US with flex fuel or hybrid, it could capture tremendous market share.</p>
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		<title>By: Talonderiel</title>
		<link>http://www.trollhattansaab.net/archives/2007/02/competition_onl.html#comment-8939</link>
		<dc:creator>Talonderiel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Feb 2007 17:08:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://s18881.gridserver.com/archives/1853#comment-8939</guid>
		<description>As I see it, this is more of a debate of here-and-now vs. the future.

Here-and-now: Saab competes very well with VW, Acura, Mazda, Atoyot, and similar American marques (Buick, Lincoln, Mercury). With good reasons too: the Asians just don&#039;t have any passion in the design (&quot;toasters&quot;) and the Americans are either too &quot;dull&quot;, for a way older crowd, or lack mpg/performance.

Future: I think in the next 10 years, we will see Saab competing against BMW, Audi, MB and leading her sister, Caddy (atleast in Europe). I believe, though sometimes it&#039;s a roller-coaster, that GM plans on &quot;revitalizing&quot; Saab, once it&#039;s money woes are a little more controlled.

I like to think of Saab as a late 80&#039;s/early 90&#039;s version of BMW and Audi. Anyone remember where they were then?  granted I was born in 85 and lived in the country for 10 years, but I remember them being niche themselves until mid-late 90&#039;s here in US</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As I see it, this is more of a debate of here-and-now vs. the future.</p>
<p>Here-and-now: Saab competes very well with VW, Acura, Mazda, Atoyot, and similar American marques (Buick, Lincoln, Mercury). With good reasons too: the Asians just don&#8217;t have any passion in the design (&#8221;toasters&#8221;) and the Americans are either too &#8220;dull&#8221;, for a way older crowd, or lack mpg/performance.</p>
<p>Future: I think in the next 10 years, we will see Saab competing against BMW, Audi, MB and leading her sister, Caddy (atleast in Europe). I believe, though sometimes it&#8217;s a roller-coaster, that GM plans on &#8220;revitalizing&#8221; Saab, once it&#8217;s money woes are a little more controlled.</p>
<p>I like to think of Saab as a late 80&#8217;s/early 90&#8217;s version of BMW and Audi. Anyone remember where they were then?  granted I was born in 85 and lived in the country for 10 years, but I remember them being niche themselves until mid-late 90&#8217;s here in US</p>
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		<title>By: eggsngrits</title>
		<link>http://www.trollhattansaab.net/archives/2007/02/competition_onl.html#comment-8938</link>
		<dc:creator>eggsngrits</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Feb 2007 14:38:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://s18881.gridserver.com/archives/1853#comment-8938</guid>
		<description>Brian:  You&#039;re right about the power of the transceiver OnStar vs. handheld phone, but there&#039;s one twist:  the FCC limits ALL mobile devices operating on those frequencies to a specific transmit and receive power and unity gain antennae.  That is, the power is limited by law for ALL devices, not just those by your head.  Therefore, it&#039;s the sensitivity that makes all the difference in the end.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brian:  You&#8217;re right about the power of the transceiver OnStar vs. handheld phone, but there&#8217;s one twist:  the FCC limits ALL mobile devices operating on those frequencies to a specific transmit and receive power and unity gain antennae.  That is, the power is limited by law for ALL devices, not just those by your head.  Therefore, it&#8217;s the sensitivity that makes all the difference in the end.</p>
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		<title>By: jc_atl</title>
		<link>http://www.trollhattansaab.net/archives/2007/02/competition_onl.html#comment-8937</link>
		<dc:creator>jc_atl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Feb 2007 11:56:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://s18881.gridserver.com/archives/1853#comment-8937</guid>
		<description>Brian, on SAAB USA&#039;s site if I go to build a 2007 9-3SS, if I want navigation it requires that I also purchase the $695 OnStar unit regardless of whether I want it or not.  I assume this is due to the integration of the GPS functionality but still it makes the navigation unit almost a $3000 option where $700 is for something I don&#039;t want.  On top of that I don&#039;t even get bluetooth but am forced to use OnStar&#039;s overpriced minutes or, I assume, switch to Verizon if I want hands-free calling capabilities without adding an aftermarket unit.  OnStar is extorting buyers both at purchase time and for phone minutes, IMHO.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brian, on SAAB USA&#8217;s site if I go to build a 2007 9-3SS, if I want navigation it requires that I also purchase the $695 OnStar unit regardless of whether I want it or not.  I assume this is due to the integration of the GPS functionality but still it makes the navigation unit almost a $3000 option where $700 is for something I don&#8217;t want.  On top of that I don&#8217;t even get bluetooth but am forced to use OnStar&#8217;s overpriced minutes or, I assume, switch to Verizon if I want hands-free calling capabilities without adding an aftermarket unit.  OnStar is extorting buyers both at purchase time and for phone minutes, IMHO.</p>
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		<title>By: saab9x</title>
		<link>http://www.trollhattansaab.net/archives/2007/02/competition_onl.html#comment-8936</link>
		<dc:creator>saab9x</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Feb 2007 11:25:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://s18881.gridserver.com/archives/1853#comment-8936</guid>
		<description>1.  i think it&#039;s refreshing that the saab cachet comes without the  &quot;smarminess&quot; of   brands that cater to being status symbols for the never-ending, &quot;gauche&quot; segment.  pfft; 

2.  as for performance, design, quality and prestige, saab will continue to grow, given no more rebadging follies; and 

3.  therefore, its maturation as a premium (european) brand seems quite natural, as are the &quot;targets&quot; in that group.  saturation of that market, however, depends on how well it can execute value and distinctiveness.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1.  i think it&#8217;s refreshing that the saab cachet comes without the  &#8220;smarminess&#8221; of   brands that cater to being status symbols for the never-ending, &#8220;gauche&#8221; segment.  pfft; </p>
<p>2.  as for performance, design, quality and prestige, saab will continue to grow, given no more rebadging follies; and </p>
<p>3.  therefore, its maturation as a premium (european) brand seems quite natural, as are the &#8220;targets&#8221; in that group.  saturation of that market, however, depends on how well it can execute value and distinctiveness.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian</title>
		<link>http://www.trollhattansaab.net/archives/2007/02/competition_onl.html#comment-8935</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Feb 2007 11:23:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://s18881.gridserver.com/archives/1853#comment-8935</guid>
		<description>jc_atl: The OnStar navigation is separate from the in car navigation system.  If you had the in car nav system, you wouldn&#039;t need to call OnStar to get the turn by turn directions (which is like calling your friend and asking for directions over the phone).

Onstar also has better reception because the transcever (sp?) is not limited to the power output restraints like a cell phone.  Cell phones have to conserver power from the battery and they have to limit the radiation or whatever it is that is being emitted from the phone that next to your head.

Regarding who SAAB&#039;s direct competitors are, at this point, it doesn&#039;t really matter right now.  They first need to build a product that meets very basic standards.  Standards that even some Korean cars are meeting lately.  Sub-$15 to $20K cars are put together better, have better stereos, more technology, and better reliability than SAAB.  No, they don&#039;t drive as nicely but that&#039;s why they are cheaper.

SAAB is a very mixed bag right now.  I liken it to a box of variety pack oatmeal.  It comes with a few of every flavor, but you don&#039;t like all of them.  The ones you don&#039;t like being the rattling interior and quality issues, etc.  You like all the other flavors enough that you&#039;re willing to buy the box anyways.  SAAB needs to fix the bad flavors because other manufacturers already have.

When these basic issues are fixed, then it can focus more on who the competition is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>jc_atl: The OnStar navigation is separate from the in car navigation system.  If you had the in car nav system, you wouldn&#8217;t need to call OnStar to get the turn by turn directions (which is like calling your friend and asking for directions over the phone).</p>
<p>Onstar also has better reception because the transcever (sp?) is not limited to the power output restraints like a cell phone.  Cell phones have to conserver power from the battery and they have to limit the radiation or whatever it is that is being emitted from the phone that next to your head.</p>
<p>Regarding who SAAB&#8217;s direct competitors are, at this point, it doesn&#8217;t really matter right now.  They first need to build a product that meets very basic standards.  Standards that even some Korean cars are meeting lately.  Sub-$15 to $20K cars are put together better, have better stereos, more technology, and better reliability than SAAB.  No, they don&#8217;t drive as nicely but that&#8217;s why they are cheaper.</p>
<p>SAAB is a very mixed bag right now.  I liken it to a box of variety pack oatmeal.  It comes with a few of every flavor, but you don&#8217;t like all of them.  The ones you don&#8217;t like being the rattling interior and quality issues, etc.  You like all the other flavors enough that you&#8217;re willing to buy the box anyways.  SAAB needs to fix the bad flavors because other manufacturers already have.</p>
<p>When these basic issues are fixed, then it can focus more on who the competition is.</p>
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		<title>By: jc_atl</title>
		<link>http://www.trollhattansaab.net/archives/2007/02/competition_onl.html#comment-8934</link>
		<dc:creator>jc_atl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Feb 2007 10:45:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://s18881.gridserver.com/archives/1853#comment-8934</guid>
		<description>I would concur on the bluetooth excuse - the list of auto manufacturers who have had a high degree of support for the technology for at least the past 3 years is long.  I have 3 different GSM phones and 4 different bluetooth headphones, dongles, etc and all work together well enough to be functional.  It may be difficult to get it right but other manufacturers have seen it as a high enough priority (safety benefit/hands free?) to expend the resources necessary to implement a bluetooth solution that is functional and upgradeable to keep up with standards.

OnStar to me is redundant.  Having to pay OnStar for my navigation functionality is frankly like paying the mob for protection money when Lexus and Acura offer excellent navigation integration without the need for a paid subscription.  If navigation were a must-have for me I would consider avoiding a SAAB for this very reason - it&#039;s not a matter of money but a matter of principle.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would concur on the bluetooth excuse &#8211; the list of auto manufacturers who have had a high degree of support for the technology for at least the past 3 years is long.  I have 3 different GSM phones and 4 different bluetooth headphones, dongles, etc and all work together well enough to be functional.  It may be difficult to get it right but other manufacturers have seen it as a high enough priority (safety benefit/hands free?) to expend the resources necessary to implement a bluetooth solution that is functional and upgradeable to keep up with standards.</p>
<p>OnStar to me is redundant.  Having to pay OnStar for my navigation functionality is frankly like paying the mob for protection money when Lexus and Acura offer excellent navigation integration without the need for a paid subscription.  If navigation were a must-have for me I would consider avoiding a SAAB for this very reason &#8211; it&#8217;s not a matter of money but a matter of principle.</p>
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		<title>By: eggsngrits</title>
		<link>http://www.trollhattansaab.net/archives/2007/02/competition_onl.html#comment-8933</link>
		<dc:creator>eggsngrits</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Feb 2007 10:15:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://s18881.gridserver.com/archives/1853#comment-8933</guid>
		<description>Bluetooth really isn&#039;t that tricky.  As someone that works with a major computer manufacturer, I can tell you that the Bluetooth software can vary a little, but the hardware should be 99.8% compatible.  I think that&#039;s an excuse, quite frankly.  Let&#039;s put it another way:  other OEMs have it figured out well enough to offer it, why not Saab?  They can&#039;t find smart engineers?  It makes little sense to even say that it&#039;s &#039;tricky&#039;.

As far as OnStar is concerned, this is a no brainer.  The reason that OnStar calls are better in fringe areas than a handheld phone are two fold: 1.  The OnStar antenna is positioned for good reception, while your cellular phone is inside the car, with the inherent attenuation of the steel body around it.  2.  The OnStar system has the potential for better sensitivity because it&#039;s not limited to a 2&quot; x 3&quot; x .5&quot; shell like your average flip phone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bluetooth really isn&#8217;t that tricky.  As someone that works with a major computer manufacturer, I can tell you that the Bluetooth software can vary a little, but the hardware should be 99.8% compatible.  I think that&#8217;s an excuse, quite frankly.  Let&#8217;s put it another way:  other OEMs have it figured out well enough to offer it, why not Saab?  They can&#8217;t find smart engineers?  It makes little sense to even say that it&#8217;s &#8216;tricky&#8217;.</p>
<p>As far as OnStar is concerned, this is a no brainer.  The reason that OnStar calls are better in fringe areas than a handheld phone are two fold: 1.  The OnStar antenna is positioned for good reception, while your cellular phone is inside the car, with the inherent attenuation of the steel body around it.  2.  The OnStar system has the potential for better sensitivity because it&#8217;s not limited to a 2&#8243; x 3&#8243; x .5&#8243; shell like your average flip phone.</p>
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		<title>By: 1985 Gripen</title>
		<link>http://www.trollhattansaab.net/archives/2007/02/competition_onl.html#comment-8932</link>
		<dc:creator>1985 Gripen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Feb 2007 10:02:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://s18881.gridserver.com/archives/1853#comment-8932</guid>
		<description>jc_atl&#039;s last comment reminded me of something. At the dinner at the media event I mentioned lack of Bluetooth to a Swedish SAAB product manager. He said that Bluetooth is tricky because of the difference between Bluetooth in different phones. I then tried to get him to clarify and he explained that though there is a Bluetooth specification each phone seems to vary and deviate from it quite a bit. So from phone to phone the Bluetooth might be implimented differently. We then started talking about OnStar and he was telling me about how he tried the new digital OnStar for the first time very recently (I believe he lives and works in Sweden and they don&#039;t have OnStar over there). He got turn by turn directions for somewhere he was going over the OnStar system. An American SAAB manager told me that OnStar oftentimes gets better phone reception (when used as a cell phone) than most cell phones. Oftentimes you can make an OnStar telephone call where your own cell phone won&#039;t get reception.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>jc_atl&#8217;s last comment reminded me of something. At the dinner at the media event I mentioned lack of Bluetooth to a Swedish SAAB product manager. He said that Bluetooth is tricky because of the difference between Bluetooth in different phones. I then tried to get him to clarify and he explained that though there is a Bluetooth specification each phone seems to vary and deviate from it quite a bit. So from phone to phone the Bluetooth might be implimented differently. We then started talking about OnStar and he was telling me about how he tried the new digital OnStar for the first time very recently (I believe he lives and works in Sweden and they don&#8217;t have OnStar over there). He got turn by turn directions for somewhere he was going over the OnStar system. An American SAAB manager told me that OnStar oftentimes gets better phone reception (when used as a cell phone) than most cell phones. Oftentimes you can make an OnStar telephone call where your own cell phone won&#8217;t get reception.</p>
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